352 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

Samial, on 06 April 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

Good see even the developers can see what you can't.. cry more.

You should really purchase one and try 10 games and tell me how many of those you actually get above 300 damage in, in Tier 1 play.

[kuma8877]

visionGT4, on 06 April 2018 - 06:22 PM, said:

And as you know those Apaches killing armor from a hover are utilising heavy ATGM's. The only guns killing MBT's are of the high pressure 120mm - 125mm type firing APFSDS-DU/T.

Not all armor are MBT's (and armor in BT can be hundreds of years old). Again, imagine an MG that weighs an actual 1/2 ton and what kind of round that signifies. Today's MBT's would be nothing but swiss cheese vs whatever that would be.

Edited by kuma8877, 06 April 2018 - 06:29 PM.

[Ryokens leap]

Lol, PGI made an OP MG boat so dummies would continue putting money into this "game" and then It gets nerfed when MC sales drop off, rinse and repeat. When will you learn?

[LordNothing]

kuma8877, on 06 April 2018 - 05:50 PM, said:

The GAU-8 30mm, from the A-10, only weighs in at 619.5 lbs. The GAU-12 25mm (from the Harrier) only weighs 270 lbs. The M230 30mm (Apache) weighs a hefty 127 lbs.... ALL of these will put holes through heavy armor today.

ballistics in battletech dont make any sense though. seems as caliber goes up range goes down, but thats the opposite of reality. an ac20 would be the same weight as a 203mm howitzer and have a 10 mile range. damage falloff is also very negligible, losses to aerodynamic drag are miniscule. the limits to range are always more about how big your powder charge is and how well your aim is (or the targeting system's), shots scatter before they become ineffective. then you have guided munitions you can fire out of an artilliary cannon to hit targets accurately at extreme ranges. modern weapons are op, future weapons are apocalypse emitters.

theres always the armor argument too, some how through some voodoo armor technology has improved enough where so called modern weapons are ineffective. the best armors available right now are composite armors. these armors are actually more useful for stopping small arms, ieds and rpgs that insurgents use. these armors are completely useless against things like howitzers and gau-8s. now you have a 14 ton cannon on your mech, there isnt much you can do with matter to stop that, perhaps a battleship's massive armor belt or a bunker several hundred feet under ground. but those aren't things you can put legs on.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 April 2018 - 06:34 PM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Samial, on 06 April 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

[redacted]

[LordNothing]

ShadowFire, on 06 April 2018 - 06:03 PM, said:

Rear/Top armor only with the speed of a jet/helo behind it.

the speed of the a10 is less than the speed of the shell. that shell is going to be supersonic no matter if you are moving or not. and the reason they dont put armor on top of tanks is because gau-8 rounds would go through it.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 06 April 2018 - 03:58 PM, said:

Jesus H ******* Christ.

The only problem mech was Piranha -- why not just give them nega quirks for ****'s sake?

No MG itself has big issue in regards to its critting. This is just like the time when PGI nerfed LRMs even when they were bad, cause both LRMs and MGs are not fun to fight against, due to certain part of their mechanics--even if the weapons themselves are considered not OP. Which is why HGR nerf might also be coming soon.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 April 2018 - 06:42 PM.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

No MG itself has big issue in regards to its critting. This is just like the time when PGI nerfed LRMs even when they were bad, cause both LRMs and MGs are not fun to fight against, due to certain part of their mechanics--even if the weapons themselves are considered not OP. Which is why HGR nerf might also be coming soon.

Dude, Critting is the one thing MGs are good for. Or, alternatively, you could go for the lore option where one MG has the same damage per bullet as an AC2 but a way higher fire-rate, to the point where whole mechs would be deleted in less than ten seconds from a single MG.

Edited by Requiemking, 06 April 2018 - 06:48 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

JackalBeast, on 06 April 2018 - 05:09 PM, said:

JUST. ADJUST. THE. CRIT. SYSTEM. FOR. MGS.

good lord.

I know right. Everyone who has anything to say about MGs is saying the crit system is what is causing the issue but does PGI look into the crit system? Nope. PGI knows best, has always known best.....because you know....that island we are on and all.

[visionGT4]

kuma8877, on 06 April 2018 - 06:26 PM, said:

Not all armor are MBT's (and armor in BT can be hundreds of years old). Again, imagine an MG that weighs an actual 1/2 ton and what kind of round that signifies. Today's MBT's would be nothing but swiss cheese vs whatever that would be.

A GAU 8 gun system including the gun itself, hydraulics and ammunition weighs well over half a ton. That aint (and has never) swiss cheesed any MBT from the front (which is the only facing that matters in a peer level confrontation).

Edit: moral of the story MG's as anti mech weapons are dumb. There's two things I cant buy into as far as battletech goes, first being MG's as anti mech weapons, second VTOL's - they can barely survive the 21st century battlefield. They have no place on battlefields of the 31'st century

Edited by visionGT4, 06 April 2018 - 07:06 PM.

[kuma8877]

visionGT4, on 06 April 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

A GAU 8 gun system including the gun itself, hydraulics and ammunition weighs well over half a ton. That aint (and has never) swiss cheesed any MBT from the front (which is the only facing that matters in a peer level confrontation)

Of course if you're counting ammo load.... That's the heavy part in your equation. It's a separate variable in BT and MWO weapon vs ammo. If the weapon system itself weighs 1/2 ton (using what is possible today with lesser weight as a base), umpteen hundred years into the future with better manufacturing techniques, you have a HECK of a MG that would ABSOLUTELY make swiss cheese out of today's MBT's from the front.

The MG's in BT are considered combat effective against everything from infantry to mechs. If the round needs to be able to potentially damage a mech, that round is necessarily going to be big enough to do so, lethality against infantry is just a given.

Edited by kuma8877, 06 April 2018 - 07:14 PM.

[roekenny]

"As I said in the stream, what is being targeted is it's performance against alternative weapons within a similar tonnage range, while also minding the baseline balance between the Clan version of the weapon compared to its IS counterpart that comes in at double the tonnage."

Maybe if didn't nerf all those weapon with similar tonnage into the ground mg's could be comparable, but that would make brawlers viable again and we can't have that as would upset the long range meta as people can't handle brawlers what melt your face if you foolishly let them cover the distance.

I'm calling it now heavy small lasers will be next on the block.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 06:44 PM, said:

Dude, Critting is the one thing MGs are good for. Or, alternatively, you could go for the lore option where one MG has the same damage per bullet as an AC2 but a way higher fire-rate, to the point where whole mechs would be deleted in less than ten seconds from a single MG.

Except MGs are too good at critting. Doesn't matter if I have 15 HP AC10 in that torso, MGs crit it out in less than a second once structure is exposed.

[The6thMessenger]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 06:39 PM, said:

No MG itself has big issue in regards to its critting. This is just like the time when PGI nerfed LRMs even when they were bad, cause both LRMs and MGs are not fun to fight against, due to certain part of their mechanics--even if the weapons themselves are considered not OP. Which is why HGR nerf might also be coming soon.

Kind of agree. But I feel like Piranha would still over-perform due to hardpoint inflation.

[FupDup]

The6thMessenger, on 06 April 2018 - 07:23 PM, said:

Kind of agree. But I feel like Piranha would still over-perform due to hardpoint inflation.

Eh, the PIR-1 doesn't have any inflation. Those are the stock hardpoints.

But yeah it's an excessive outlier that will force MGs to get nerfed solely because of it. I just hope that the other non-excessive Clan MG robots (Viper, Scat, etc.) get some MG RoF quirk compensation.

[Marius Evander]

Why are people trying to compare real life ballistic weapons damage to real life armor to what Battletech mgs would do without factoring in battletech armor being insane vs current armor ?

[kuma8877]

visionGT4, on 06 April 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

Snip

Do you know that they've fit the GAU-8 into a pod for other planes to augment their anti ground capabilities, can't be all that much heavier, dry vs wet (hydaulic fluid present) without ammo.

[kuma8877]

Cadoazreal, on 06 April 2018 - 07:26 PM, said:

Why are people trying to compare real life ballistic weapons damage to real life armor to what Battletech mgs would do without factoring in battletech armor being insane vs current armor ?

And the MGs in BT damage that armor at the same rate as AC2's.

[Requiemking]

El Bandito, on 06 April 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Except MGs are too good at critting. Doesn't matter if I have 15 HP AC10 in that torso, MGs crit it out in less than a second once structure is exposed.

Would you prefer that entire torso be gone in less than one second from a single MG? Because thats the alternative. Either MGs remain at their current niche, or they become close-range shredders that tear mechs apart in seconds.

[El Bandito]

Requiemking, on 06 April 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

Would you prefer that entire torso be gone in less than one second from a single MG? Because thats the alternative. Either MGs remain at their current niche, or they become close-range shredders that tear mechs apart in seconds.

Doesn't have to be that way. Critting can be reduced in return for slight damage boost. Also, IS MGs need to be buffed heavily.