431 replies to this topic

[James Argent]

Horseman, on 01 May 2018 - 08:41 PM, said:

Neither of those relates to what I'm talking about. I'm just saying that eg if you had a "Crown" bolt-on, it should count as available to any chassis that can have the "Crown" equipped.

But a crown for one mech's head is a different size than a crown for another mech's head. Or else you're going to bolt on a fancy necklace that blocks your cockpit view on some mechs.

[Horseman]

James Argent, on 02 May 2018 - 01:30 PM, said:

But a crown for one mech's head is a different size than a crown for another mech's head. Or else you're going to bolt on a fancy necklace that blocks your cockpit view on some mechs.

It seems you equate the inventory item with the bolt-on geometry and/or its' scale?
The same type of bolt-on can fall under a single inventory item and still use different geometry and/or scaling depending on the mech.

[D V Devnull]

K19, on 25 April 2018 - 08:09 AM, said:

Plz PLz. check if the temperatures are correct on the maps of the arenas ... not only general temperature but we point out that they are warmer and fresher. Thank you

I've noticed this as well. I suspect they were trying to Nerf the Stealth Armor, but instead it's putting too much hurt on everyone that does not happen to use and/or have it. Very likely, PGI will have to rethink the list of temperatures in order to compensate for this.

~D. V. "Bah, something is definitely wrong about the temperature curve/alignment..." Devnull

[James Argent]

Horseman, on 02 May 2018 - 09:57 PM, said:

It seems you equate the inventory item with the bolt-on geometry and/or its' scale?
The same type of bolt-on can fall under a single inventory item and still use different geometry and/or scaling depending on the mech.

It's not a coupon, it's a specific item in a box. It doesn't morph sizes based on what you try to put it on.

[D V Devnull]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnndddd another unfortunate note has hit... People are running across issues revolving around Supply Caches in general...

--->>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/265012-unopened-supply-cache-counter-fails-to-immediately-update-on-new-earned-cache/
--->>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/264747-supply-cache-lied-to-me/
--->>> https://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/264645-supply-cache-no-guarantee/

...so now we're probably looking at another HotFix needed. Wasn't this feature change supposed to be a lot more awesome than this?

~D. V. "Figures... Revamp a feature, watch it backfire... I had hoped for better." Devnull

[Horseman]

James Argent, on 03 May 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

It's not a coupon, it's a specific item in a box.

There's no physical "crown" item, just a value in the database that translates. to you having a "crown" in your in-game inventory. To all intents and purposes it is a bloody coupon.

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It doesn't morph sizes based on what you try to put it on.

It absolutely can, and CryEngine supports doing so.
And as far as using different geometry based on the mech they're applied to, the "lights" cockpit items already are an example of this working in the game right now.

[James Argent]

OK, I don't want to ever hear any complaints from you about 'immersion' if you're not going to consider 'a supply cache' as a shipment of actual parts that your mechwarrior receives and you only consider the technical limitations of the game engine. Yes, the game engine also has the capability to make every mech one pixel in size. Do you want that also, just because it's technically possible? You also don't get to say, 'Well, I wanted a UAC-20 but my supply cache came with a MG, so I should be able to redeem a 'ballistic coupon' for what I want.

And really, cockpit lights? A string of lights as a physical object is absolutely designed to articulate infinitely and conform to whatever item to which you apply it. Bolt-ons...the use of the term 'bolt' should be a huge clue here...are simply not.

[MovinTarget]

Yup there are a lot of peeps in these forums (or any forum for that matter) that cherry pick their stance not based on a consistent platform but rather their own personal idea of what is "right", then they pick the platform that will support that assertion, even if it is diametrically opposed to the platform used for another argument.

...in other words, same as everywhere else in the world...

[Horseman]

James Argent, on 04 May 2018 - 07:47 AM, said:

OK, I don't want to ever hear any complaints from you about 'immersion' if you're not going to consider 'a supply cache' as a shipment of actual parts that your mechwarrior receives

Either show me one post where I argued for immersion or refrain from putting words into my mouth.
Also, immersion does not excuse poor design decisions.

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and you only consider the technical limitations of the game engine.

I also consider internal consistency with PGI's previous approach to installable cosmetics (see: cockpit items) and a major obvious problem with their current approach.

Right now there's 9 or 10 chassis supported, but the game has some 90 chassis already with another added every month. Once they add bolt-ons for more chassis, that bolt-on you "win" is more than likely to be for a chassis you never played and are unlikely to ever touch - or perhaps for a cash shop chassis that you never intended to buy in the first place. When that happens, the value of that cache amounts to nothing - the item is both useless to you and unsellable.

As far as the obvious "perhaps it will make you buy that chassis" argument goes... without an inventory page for them, you will never be able to keep track which chassis you actually have bolt-ons for unless you go through checking each and every one individually. So yeah, that ain't happening either.

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Yes, the game engine also has the capability to make every mech one pixel in size. Do you want that also, just because it's technically possible? You also don't get to say, 'Well, I wanted a UAC-20 but my supply cache came with a MG, so I should be able to redeem a 'ballistic coupon' for what I want.

Actually, the UAC/20 coupon is an argument for my side: it's useable on every mech with matching techbase, hardpoints and sufficient space/tonnage to carry it. It also can be sold off for C-Bills (giving it at the very least the "utility" of a currency token), whereas the bolt-ons are stuck in your inventory forever.

Now imagine it came in a separate version for each chassis and could not be sold - which is exactly how the bolt-ons are handled right now. How do you feel about that Raven UAC/20 you just won?

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And really, cockpit lights?

A cosmetic item with individual in-game geometry based on the mech it is applied to, yes. That is the extent of the analogy here.

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A string of lights as a physical object is absolutely designed to articulate infinitely and conform to whatever item to which you apply it. Bolt-ons...the use of the term 'bolt' should be a huge clue here...are simply not.

Game design and user experience cannot be considered purely from a role-playing perspective the way you're trying to do here .

Edited by Horseman, 04 May 2018 - 10:59 AM.

[James Argent]

Horseman, on 04 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

Actually, the UAC/20 coupon is an argument for my side: it's useable on every mech with matching techbase, hardpoints and sufficient space/tonnage to carry it. It also can be sold off for C-Bills (giving it at the very least the "utility" of a currency token), whereas the bolt-ons are stuck in your inventory forever.

Now imagine it came in a separate version for each chassis and could not be sold - which is exactly how the bolt-ons are handled right now. How do you feel about that Raven UAC/20 you just won?

So what you're saying is that this item you got out of a supply cache is too big to fit on every mech?

[Horseman]

James Argent, on 04 May 2018 - 01:46 PM, said:

So what you're saying is that this item you got out of a supply cache is too big to fit on every mech?

No. Why are you pretending you don't understand the point?

I'm asking you to consider a hypothetical situation where instead of the caches containing weapons that can be mounted on multiple different mechs, you get weapons that are tied to a single random chassis type and cannot be sold (also, your inventory does not show which chassis they're usable on).
Would you consider such an approach sane?

Edited by Horseman, 05 May 2018 - 12:41 AM.

[James Argent]

I consider the lack of an inventory list of bolt-ons to be a real problem, in the same lazy peekaboo-game vein as cockpit items 'equipped on other mechs' instead of 'equipped on (list of specific mechs).'

From a purely resource-allocation stance, I don't think that PGI should be required to adjust custom geometry items to fit every single mech, especially not right from their introduction. And no, the game engine can't do this automatically without hovering, clipping, and getting the alignment wrong.

From a gameplay standpoint, I think it's perfectly fine for bolt-ons to not fit on the different angles and available attachment points of every single mech. I am especially OK with having bolt-ons not being as commonly seen as they would be if they weren't hard-locked to the mech for which you drew them from the caches.