112 replies to this topic

[Dragonporn]

Firstly I will never understand how crazy one must be to put different weight categories in one division... Light hard-counter overwhelming majority of Assaults and Heavies, but gets hardcountered by overhwelming majority of Mediums, and only another Light can guarantee a fair fight here.

Secondly starting a shaming thread, where OP is bitching that Heavy pilots do literally the only thing they can do to have a chance of winning against Light is hilarious. Never heard about speed and turn rates, aye? There literally no Heavies, which can effectively keep up with speed and cornering of most Lights, and especially one like Locust.

[Darian DelFord]

Tarl Cabot, on 19 April 2018 - 09:06 AM, said:

You are funny... Point of the thread is your attempt to tell others they are chicken **** when they do not stand out in the OPEN while piloting a heavier, slower mech than you that would allow your light to dance AROUND said mech. And how is he hiding if you know where he is at...? He is taking up a defensive position as he does not have SPEED, lag, etc to reduce the likelihood of being hit by incoming fire.

Carry on purple chicken...

I suggest you re read what I have written, that is not what I am saying

Dragonporn, on 19 April 2018 - 09:11 AM, said:

Firstly I will never understand how crazy one must be to put different weight categories in one division... Light hard-counter overwhelming majority of Assaults and Heavies, but gets hardcountered by overhwelming majority of Mediums, and only another Light can guarantee a fair fight here.

Secondly starting a shaming thread, where OP is bitching that Heavy pilots do literally the only thing they can do to have a chance of winning against Light is hilarious. Never heard about speed and turn rates, aye? There literally no Heavies, which can effectively keep up with speed and cornering of most Lights, and especially one like Locust.

Sorry but every heavy in this division can keep a light mech out from their rear by knowing how to pilot.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 19 April 2018 - 09:14 AM.

[FireStoat]

One of the better backfire posts I've seen in a while. I'll freely admit that I skilled up a Cataphract 4x before Solaris dropped because I looked at the list and recognized that if I narrowed out most of the maps that would give me trouble, the Cataphract would dominate versus the larger percentage of the list hands down. The 4X when given the better survival tree picks has about 78 side torso armor front, and 118 to the CT. That's more than a Scorch can attain even with all the skill tree picks.

The mech has its downsides. It can't turn quickly. It can't twist quickly. It has a max speed tweaked movement of 63 kph. It has a very large, flat front and rear profile. It is literally "baby's first target" for new players to learn how to aim with pinpoint weapons to hit a component they want destroyed.

So let me ask you a question, OP. Are you able to pilot a Cataphract 4X or a Rifleman or a Thunderbolt in division 5 and destroy a locust or commando? Because it seems you have a point to prove to the people in the thread, and that kind of evidence would work the best in proving your point.

Edit - I'd like to see your video of a match from that point of view.

Edited by FireStoat, 19 April 2018 - 09:37 AM.

[Dragonporn]

Darian DelFord, on 19 April 2018 - 09:12 AM, said:

I suggest you re read what I have written, that is not what I am saying



Sorry but every heavy in this division can keep a light mech out from their rear by knowing how to pilot.

Nope, not a chance. Light pilot must be such a potato to let this happen, it's just silly.

[MischiefSC]

Darian DelFord, on 18 April 2018 - 08:34 PM, said:

This is really becoming an epidemic. The minute a heavy sees a light they bee line it for a damn corner. Just had 3 matches in a row against Phracts and every damn one of them headed for a corner with clear LOS and their AC 5's and UAC 5 's ready to bear and there is nothing you can do about it.

Chick arse play if you ask me.

Course I can't wait for the Phract to be moved out of my division

Yeah. If the other guy is a light and I'm in a bigger slower mech I'm required to go into a large, flat, open space and wait for him to come behind me.

Oh, wait.

One of the top ranked guys in Div 3 plays a 2 ERPPC Shadowcat. He kites and poptarts for 4-7 minutes and he's an excellent shot. There's nothing top-tier competitive that's very strong against that in any of the maps he can force.

Good on him.

Solaris isn't about Rules of Queensbury. It's simply about what's the best, most efficient, most consistently effective tactic to win with the choice of mechs in a division.

To say that you demand your opponent play to your strengths and not take every step to counter you is absurd.

[BIoB]

I've only gone into operation ''Prison Showers'' against Jman in his firestarter because I respect him as a player. He didn't whine because he knew it was my only option.

Of course a heavy pilot is going to take advantage of his superior firepower and armour while trying to mitigate your mobility by staying close to the edge of the arena. Its sensible play. CTX and RLN are line mechs, not turn and burn brawlers.



The CTX-4x has no competition in Div5 imo, but I'm sure it will be moved in the first balance pass.......the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

Edited by B o B, 19 April 2018 - 09:25 AM.

[Brain Cancer]

Darian DelFord, on 19 April 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

He is hiding.... that is all he is doing.... dress it up all you want.

Hiding.

In clear view, with no cover in front of him obscuring your line of sight, just behind him. Even after you know precisely where he is.

You must have been fun playing hide and seek.

[Darian DelFord]

FireStoat, on 19 April 2018 - 09:17 AM, said:

One of the better backfire posts I've seen in a while. I'll freely admit that I skilled up a Cataphract 4x before Solaris dropped because I looked at the list and recognized that if I narrowed out most of the maps that would give me trouble, the Cataphract would dominate versus the larger percentage of the list hands down. The 4X when given the better survival tree picks has about 78 side torso armor front, and 118 to the CT. That's more than a Scorch can attain even with all the skill tree picks.

The mech has its downsides. It can't turn quickly. It can't twist quickly. It has a max speed tweaked movement of 63 kph. It has a very large, flat front and rear profile. It is literally "baby's first target" for new players to learn how to aim with pinpoint weapons to hit a component they want destroyed.

So let me ask you a question, OP. Are you able to pilot a Cataphract 4X or a Rifleman or a Thunderbolt in division 5 and destroy a locust or commando? Because it seems you have a point to prove to the people in the thread, and that kind of evidence would work the best in proving your point.

My heavy is a Catapult :> And I have little problems with lights. Sometimes they kill me.... Sometimes I kill them..... IF I sat in a corner and waited I would cremate them. I don't. The hardest part about fighting a light mech in a heavy in these maps is knowing where he will start his attack run from. Once I have him targeted its pretty easy to forecast where he is going based on their loadout. Lets face it these maps are really designed with lights in mind in regards to the size of them. In about 3 seconds I can run from one end to the other end in my locust.

Now with that being said........ Out of the 70 or 80ish matches I have placed the vast majority of those are in my locust....... and I can count on one hand how many times I have actually seen another light mech as a locust. I have faced a Commando, locust, urbie a few times in the catapult.

All in all about 10 matches against lights. In none of them did I feel that it was going to be an insta loss and had to hide.

Brain Cancer, on 19 April 2018 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hiding.

In clear view, with no cover in front of him obscuring your line of sight, just behind him. Even after you know precisely where he is.

You must have been fun playing hide and seek.

Try it out and let me see the results on who wins. I am not asking for an insta win. Personally I like a good dog fight. But when the heavy just hides and waits I am sorry you will not convince me this the spirit of Solaris.

B o B, on 19 April 2018 - 09:25 AM, said:

The CTX-4x has no competition in Div5 imo, but I'm sure it will be moved in the first balance pass.......the sooner the better as far as I'm concerned.

I agree

[LowSubmarino]

Ppl always hated all playstyles that are not brawling.

Community always hated sniping which is what I really love.

In real mech combat its not fair and ppl will hide and strike from some place you dont even see. I like that. It feels realistic, is way more challenging and way more interesting than the communitys weird sense of honorable face tanking arcade brawl. Screw that. I want it realistic. And that would mean it is anything but fair. And ppl will hide and shoot from some angle.

I want realistic, challenging gameplay. Not some itsy bitsy flower like white knight face tanking fairness. Thats for crybabies. Give me the real deal. Screw that honor.

[sycocys]

Any way you look at it, non-participation type strategies should be hit directly in the CT with a long tom.

Still think its funny that people celebrate this "strategy" in 1v1 arena combat, especially in mechs that can often one shot lights, go out there and get it done its not like the maps are so large that they could flank you without you being able to track them far ahead of time.

[Dogstar]

Stinger554, on 19 April 2018 - 07:25 AM, said:

I'd say it's non-participation and if you see someone doing it report him/her.

Were you talking about the light mech or the heavy/assault?

Because from either point of view it's the _other_ player who is not participating.

Both players are deciding to act in a non-participatory manner because neither will give up their advantage.

Frankly it's down to a failed design - match making for Solaris should be by division, _tonnage_, and ELO. Ignoring tonnage gives us stupid problems like both players refusing to engage.

It also demonstrates that light mechs are, in general, fairly OP for their tonnage.

[WarHippy]

Darian DelFord, on 19 April 2018 - 07:56 AM, said:

What people are not realizing is you can not compare FP or QP to Solaris.

In FP/QP you have 11 other team mates that can take care of the chicken mech for you if he decides to employ this tactic. It is fine. Even if it came down to 1v1 in either FP/QP and the heavy / assault put his back against a wall I would not say a word about it. Because I had my chance to get at him earlier and the same with my teammates

The problem is in Solaris there is no one else to help you with the mech. I am not talking about legged mechs attempting to get a defensive position, or a mech that is really hurt trying to protect himself. I am talking about stragiht from the get go heading into a corner and staying there the entire match. There is no way for the light mech to win against that. Just like bringing streaks, rarely can a light mech win against that.


I was under the impression that PGI did not want a race to the top of the tonnage power creep. Solaris did just that.

Solaris has absolutely proved that Light Mechs being Over Powers is Absolute FAKE NEWS.

Your first and last line are kind of contradictory. The complaint that light mechs are overpowered stems almost entirely from FP/QP encounters where the fights are completely different from Solaris due to the constant movement and multiple players providing distractions etc.. Lights can still be OP in FP/QP and under powered in Solaris because of the difference in the nature of the fights. Ultimately they just need to rework the divisions and focus more on weight classes. Personally, I would like to see just 3 division comprised of lights and mediums up to 45 tons(div3), mediums starting at 50 tons and heavies up to 65 tons(div2), heavies starting at 70 tons and assaults(div1). They can shift things around as needed or as outlier mechs become problematic.

[Stinger554]

Dogstar, on 19 April 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

Were you talking about the light mech or the heavy/assault?

Because from either point of view it's the _other_ player who is not participating.

Frankly it's down to a failed design - match making for Solaris should be by division, _tonnage_, and ELO. Ignoring tonnage gives us stupid problems like both players refusing to engage.

The heavy. He is the one that creates the stalemate situation by running into the corner at the beginning of the match. In this case the CTF has both arm weapons and can turn/twist enough to get shots on the light. Instead he is hiding in a corner because he isn't confident in his ability to hit a locust maybe 3 times to kill it.

The person creating the stalemate is the one at fault.

I don't think that weight is the end all be all of balancing. I've taken out quite a few ANHs in my ACW-1 and even a few in my Huntsmans.

Dogstar, on 19 April 2018 - 10:15 AM, said:

It also demonstrates that light mechs are, in general, fairly OP for their tonnage.

Riiiiiiiiigiggggghhhhthhttttttt.....A mech that can die from maybe 3 hits is OP......sssssuuuuurrreeeeee whatever you say.

If they are so OP how come they are not dominating the divisions they are in? PIRs don't dominate either of their divs, nether does the MLX, nor the ACH, nor the LCT...need I go on?

Edited by Stinger554, 19 April 2018 - 10:27 AM.

[AaronWolf]

sycocys, on 19 April 2018 - 09:41 AM, said:

Any way you look at it, non-participation type strategies should be hit directly in the CT with a long tom.

Still think its funny that people celebrate this "strategy" in 1v1 arena combat, especially in mechs that can often one shot lights, go out there and get it done its not like the maps are so large that they could flank you without you being able to track them far ahead of time.

I don't think anyone's really celebrating it. Its just another tactic amongst many out there.

Solaris is entirely about finding means to adapt to enemies or using your own tactics to throw off the enemy it appears. Its not as linear as people have become accustomed too.

12v12 has not prepared anyone very well for 1v1's or 2v2's. Their very different beasts. Some things they share in ofcourse, but they are very different when all is said and done.

So there is bound to be a lot of frustration, and its understandable.

I'm still seeing a lot of people running enough ammo for 12v12s and using up extra space that could be used for heat sinks in a 1v1. XD Little stuff like that can change a lot of things.

[Rugarou]

Lights can fit ER Med if they want. Light can then poke at heavy unmoving in corner from range. Whats the problem? Hell on most maps light can take er smalls and still poke at heavy in corner from multiple locations while moving outside the opposing players line of sight. And the light pilot can vote away the maps this is harder to do on.

Heavy/assault in corner isn't the problem. The light pilot not adjusting tactics to a change in opposing player tactics is the problem here.

[Davegt27]

Not sure if the OP is crying because of the easy win and wanted it even easier

or he is showing off

if you win just bite your lip and take it as it is ---a win

nice work

[oneproduct]

Choosing a heavier mech is acknowledging you're trading speed/mobility for armor/firepower. You're supposed to be at a mobility disadvantage versus a lighter mech.

The fact that a heavier mech can use the terrain to negate this disadvantage ruins the point of selecting a lower weight class.

How would you feel if there was some arena-feature that allowed lights to negate their disadvantage in a similar way? For example, imagine if in the center of the arena there was a mounted weapon (as in mounted guns in WW2-style games) that one-shot anything it hit. Light mechs would be able to run to it first and then use that to overpower heavier mechs. But this would ruin the point of trading off firepower for speed and would probably create another form of stalemate while the heavy waits for the light to leave the mounted weapon.

The fact that you can use terrain features to create such a one-sided advantage (when there's corners that can't be approached from multiple directions) is the kind of reasoning why you have the kind of catch phrases like "fox only, no items, final destination" in the Nintendo 64 game Smash Bros. Final Destination was a completely featureless, flat map. I'd rather they not have to make featureless maps in order for lights to be able to use the advantage they're supposed to have.

If a light kills an assault mech sometimes, that's okay. As other people were discussing, assault/heavy vs medium is basically an automatic loss for the medium. There's an element of (not strictly) rock-paper-scissors to things where some mechs have a natural advantage over another (and it's not even a granted that a light has an advantage over an assault). If a light gets behind an assault mech that's literally so immobile that it can't turn to get a view on the light again, that's okay. Sometimes things happen. In other cases the assault mech will catch the light on his approach, make one alpha strike and completely destroy the light in a split second.

I play lights and assault equally, in case that helps me not seem too biased: https://leaderboard....ch?u=oneproduct

Edited by oneproduct, 19 April 2018 - 12:58 PM.

[Holy Jackson]

So I assume that since you think an assault shouldn't corner itself because it's not fair fighting, then you think lights shouldn't go for backs either. I mean, it's only fair.

[oneproduct]

Those two are not related at all. It's not about fair fighting, it's about advantages and disadvantages. Lights having enough maneuverability to get behind an enemy is supposed to be one of their advantages. Assaults being able to blow someone in front of it out of the water is their advantage.

I'm suggesting that both lights and assaults should both have their advantages and disadvantages. Assaults are high firepower/armor and low mobility/speed. Lights are the reverse.

Imagine if the map was just a completely flat, open battlefield with no obstacles. It would become a test to see if the assault could kill the light before it approached, which would at least be more interesting than what happens when the assault goes into a corner.

The assault has great firepower if it can keep its target in front of it. But it traded mobility to get that kind of firepower.

In the same way that people are saying that lights are not the optimum choice in some divisions, it's possible that extremely immobile assaults are not optimal either. They're allowed to have bad matchups sometimes and they still have a chance to kill a light before it can get close enough to them or by catching it while it's trying to stay behind them (it's not trivial to keep behind some mechs).

Edited by oneproduct, 19 April 2018 - 01:11 PM.

[Ryllen Kriel]

When mixed martial arts first became popularized in the States with the UFC people enjoyed the spectacle of mismatched opponents going at one another. You could see a sumo go up against an animal style Kung Fu practitioner. Was it balanced? Hell no, it was entertaining. I never heard anyone tell one of the fighters about rules to limit basic methods of self defence however. Royce Gracie guarded his back because that's what they train you to do in Jujitsu. I remember hearing people calling him insults I'm not allowed to type on these forums, thinking he was a coward for being in a guard position when he fought against a faster striker. It was a valid strategy because he used what he was good at.

The OP doesn't seem to understand that the Rifleman pilot immediately saw what his strategy was and reacted to it. A Rifleman mech can't turn as fast as a Locust, it has poor weapon convergence at close range and the backup lasers in the side torsos have limited pitch angle for shooting downwards at light mechs around it's feet. Backing against a wall is totally a valid tactic, especially since the OP tried to angle behind the Rifleman first thing to shoot his back. Both pilots had good situational awareness at the beginning of the match. I commend the Locust pilot for seeking cover and still managing to use speed to get a win. What really baffles me is that he won and created this thread where no one cheated or used an invalid tactic. This thread therefore is just about boasting about a win.

Currently Solaris is like the first UFCs, it's a spectacle. There isn't much balance with the Divisions as they are, but it's better than a free-for-all because all we would see would be a handful of meta builds. OP, you can't enjoy the speed of a light and not expect a heavier mech to guard it's back. Like UFC, will Solaris eventually categorize mech chassis by weight? Perhaps it would be more fair to do that and a mix of meta-based divisions. Things would become fair but at the cost of the current spectacle.