147 replies to this topic

[mistlynx4life]

I think displaying their build is just going to feed the idea that only certain chassis 'belong' or 'can win' in a division. I'd rather see their stats broken down by division, or even within a chosen division by chassis, in way that says "This pilot is likely to take this chassis, and this is his/her record with it" rather than "This is what this pilot is using right now." A subtle difference to be sure but an important one, I feel. There's a huge difference between someone with an outstanding ELO in a division who only ever uses one 'mech/build and someone who sacrifices an ELO to keep things spicy by rotating through a handful of chassis from time to time. Not a popular opinion, I know, but my opinion nonetheless.

Thanks for asking!

#mistlynx4life

[Tarogato]

I propose a compromise.

Fix the bug so that you can't view the build in mechlab. But provide more information on the player card. Because this is laughable:




Why the breakdown by component? That is worthless information, and actually makes the loadout more difficult to read.




Here is a mockup of how I would do it:




Provides all the critical info, without giving away all the details or providing too much information, which still allows for inexperienced players to figure out some things for themselves.

[Alilua]

I think it helps enough for people to see what builds are top and might pave the way for in-game build sharing.

[Liveish]

Tarogato, on 25 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

I propose a compromise.





Here is a mockup of how I would do it:




Provides all the critical info, without giving away all the details or providing too much information, which still allows for inexperienced players to figure out some things for themselves.

Great mock up, DO THIS

[LordLosh]

Um 5 million votes to what Tarogato said.
That is perfect and best of both worlds. shows enough of build you could make it yourself without a direct copy and paste format from being able to see everything. Shows skill tree breakdown without again showing everything. I don't see how anyone could complain or be upset by this. He even showed you how it should look. Hats off to you good sir.

Edited by LordLosh, 25 April 2018 - 06:24 PM.

[Kyle Kowalski]

if your confident of your skills, you dont need to hide your build.

[Mont]

How about making it an option that players can choose whether they want to reveal their exact loadout/skill trees?
That way if people are happy to share, they can.

[LordLosh]

PS how is Tarogato not on the payroll PGI? this is like the 4th or 5th awesome mockup and break down of what needs and should be done. I can name a few names that could be let go and he could take their place even part-time and do million times better

[Mausinator08]

I feel Tarogato is correct with his displays. Great compromise. I suck badly at this game and agree with him.

Now, I'm also with Kyle and Mont as well. And for Mont's proposal, how about for players that do share their full build info, the other players have to pay X amount of C-Bills to reveal that player's card for X amount of time in game. Otherwise, yeah, just go to smurphy's mech lab and do your own research. So overall, I like Tarogato's proposal the best by its self. Don't give away everything. Just enough to give you that "hmmmm...." thought and to go back to the drawing board. Cause the same build for one mechwarrior might not suit another, experienced or not...

[Sniper Behind Ya]

My vote:
1. Mech loadouts should not be accessible while a Mech is allocated to an active match.
2. Give each player an option to toggle their preference on the loadout screen for each mech of whether they want to let others view the loadout.

[Av3 M0rt3m]

I have a split opinion on this, and for good reason.

I appreciate the ability to look at the actual build of the 'Mech in the MechLab. While looking at the player card was a good indicator of loadout, we all know that it's more than loadout that goes into a 'Mech Build. I think this is a good feature for both new AND experienced players to have to learn the finer art of 'Mech design that they otherwise may not get.

With that said, I do think that Skill Tree selections should be kept private. The Skill Tree is often the "Secret Sauce" to the fine tuning of a 'Mech. Builds can be derived with a little work in QP by Spectating, but you don't get that opportunity in Solaris. It is nearly impossible to figure out someone's Skill Tree in any other sense, and so I think that should stay as private information.

Yes, we want players to be competitive in Solaris BUT we don't want to punish the top tier guys by revealing ALL their secrets and quirks.

That's my opinion, with my 1,458 ELO score (as of this writing), proving that (for what it's worth) knowing the build details does not necessarily equate to success.

EDITED TO ADD: What Tarogato proposed really achieves the essence of what I'm saying without all the words

Edited by Av3 M0rt3m, 25 April 2018 - 07:03 PM.

[Igor Kozyrev]

show it all - top players have nothing to hide, special snowflakes' builds are not worth hiding

[Elizander]

New players can learn the game faster by seeing what the top players are running in Solaris which would in turn make them stay long the sooner they dump their garbage newbie build that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to win.

Top competitive players might have their own meta and change up their builds, moving ammo and so forth between matches just to throw off their rivals. It can also encourage top players to have more than one go-to mech so that they can swap between them if one of their builds gets figured out.

Top player builds in Quick Play/Faction Play/Comp/Solaris, if viewable in-game can maybe be linked to the site/forums for newbies to look over and study and it can bring some discussion as to why some mechs are built that way (which might be far removed from what they think is ideal). It would be great if these mechs and builds can be viewed via player profile on the forums and maybe have rankings on the site as well so people know who to look up to.

If all else fails, make viewing mechs opt-in from the settings by each individual player.

[Squirg]

+1 to Taro's idea.

I want to see more rotocrabs in Div3

[Small Baguette]

Elizander, on 25 April 2018 - 07:08 PM, said:

New players can learn the game faster by seeing what the top players are running in Solaris which would in turn make them stay long the sooner they dump their garbage newbie build that doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell to win.

That's my thinking too. The biggest benefit is the newer player experience and player retention, which I feel like is more important for the game overall than anything else.

A big "VIEW IN MECHLAB" button is important too. Most people don't realize that clicking on mechlab allows you to view it (heck, the devs at PGI didn't even realise it during testing). I really think this would be beneficial overall.

Taro's implementation is probably the best middle ground for everyone. However, if it doesn't go ahead then the current option of viewing the mech lab (with an additional button to let people know!!) is also great.

[Horseman]

Tarogato, on 25 April 2018 - 05:57 PM, said:

Here is a mockup of how I would do it:




Provides all the critical info, without giving away all the details or providing too much information, which still allows for inexperienced players to figure out some things for themselves.

+1, this looks great - just enough for the newbie to work out the rest on his own given some investment of effort, not enough to slavishly copy-paste builds, expect them to carry him and crash HARD when they don't (it's sometimes a problem for newbies, resulting in complaints that "people post sabotaged builds, waaaaa").

Tina Benoit, on 25 April 2018 - 03:51 PM, said:

If so, should we also consider allowing players to look at another player’s Skill Tree for that particular ‘Mech?

In addition to what Taro has shown above, what if there was some indication of how popular (in terms of statistical information on active node count ) each tree is among the players who run the given chassis in Solaris overall?

Edited by Horseman, 25 April 2018 - 08:44 PM.

[STEF_]

Imo things should be left as things are.

1) mech build visible, because an entire stadium can see it, when a mech fights
2) "secret" tweaks not visible

[naterist]

On the one hand, it is very educational and we need a resource like this since metamechs isnt being updated anymore. on the other hand, if joe shmoe knows he can hit x component when fighting y player for a more likely win via ammo explosion, then that particular pilot has an unfair edge. (Unless its clantech. Clans free case makes that particular arguement invalid)

Im hesitant to give an opinion in light of that, however, if there was a method of showing the exact build, minus ammo locations, then id unhesitantly say "yes, do it"

Alternatively, if there was a way to show the top players exact builds, without identifying who was running that particular build, than that would also sidestep the problem.

If neither of those are possible, then count this post as an abstention. If that IS an option, then i say yes, do one of those 2 things.

Tarogatos mock up is also well done, and sidesteps the above problem as well, however i think it should also show equipment such as heatsinks, ecm, bap, jumpjets, and targetting computers; along with the quantity of said equipment on the build

Edited by naterist, 25 April 2018 - 10:07 PM.

[Budulai740]

Yes. This should be allowed. Seeing the Solaris "flavor of the day" meta build allows you to build a better counter to it. If you play enough and climb high enough you will see that people will start building counters to your meta-counter.
And this is a way to bring more diversity into Solaris and faster meta shifts. Which we all need.

Another little detail - you can even guess enemy skill set, looking at weapon cooldowns, range, armor, etc in his mechlab.

Yes. This brings troubles to top-20 players, because it's a pain when, for example enemies know where exactly they hold most ammunition or if their armor is stripped somewhere.
But studying the top-competitors weaknesses is common in any sport. Box, football, etc.

Edited by Budulai740, 25 April 2018 - 10:47 PM.

[stingray2000]

Please give players the opportunity to see mech loadouts. This way at least the players who are willing to improve will get the chance to do so...

Edit: Same for Skill Tree

Edited by stingray2000, 02 May 2018 - 04:35 AM.