96 replies to this topic

[Imperius]

Stop buying assault mechs and when one is announced just send support a ticket to why you didn’t buy assault mech. Fun and utility isn’t the focus it’s money.

[Vonbach]

I see a lot of people using the things. Especially in certain modes. It depends on if you want to be "that guy."
If your standing back with your team the heat from the alpha doesn't matter.

[Leone]

The point of engine Desync was to buff the mighty Urbie in it's natural habitat.

~Leone.

[Luminis]

Vonbach, on 21 May 2018 - 07:31 AM, said:

I see a lot of people using the things.

I see a lot of people bringing Streak SRMs because reasons. Doesn't say anything about how good the weapon system is. Hell, if I went by popularity, I'd have to be asking for LRM nerfs permanently.

What I'm getting at is that the HBR might be the issue - not so much the HLL - because it's the perfect Heavy Laser Vomit Storm, much like the Deathstrike is the perfect Assault Gauss Vomit Storm. If the HLL isn't much of an issue in the majority of cases (and let's be real, it isn't), we might need to look at what makes the cases where it is an issue different. And that's depending on what Mech it is on.

Again, what Mechs field the HLL regularly as part of their meta loadout?

[lazorbeamz]

Hellbringer and maaaybe the clan hunchback.

Both are unviable in Solaris ever.

[R Valentine]

lazorbeamz, on 21 May 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

Hellbringer and maaaybe the clan hunchback.

Both are unviable in Solaris ever.

And if people cared about Solaris, that'd mean something.

[Luminis]

lazorbeamz, on 21 May 2018 - 08:39 AM, said:

Hellbringer and maaaybe the clan hunchback.

Exactly.

[Khobai]

Mystere, on 21 May 2018 - 04:49 AM, said:

So in other words, you now want your assaults to get for free what used to cost something before.

I'd rather engine size once again determined agility, if not to the same level as before. There is this thing called "power-to-weight ratio", you know.

what are you talking about?

it was free before...

did you forget they redid the skill tree, took away all the mobility skills that used to be free under the old system, and made them cost points... points that now arnt worth spending on mobility because the percentage increases are so pathetic.

because they lost the agility bonuses they used to get *for free*, the baseline agility of assaults was majorly nerfed. thats a fact.

plus engine desync further decreased the baseline agility of several assaults. its fine that they removed bigger engines giving more agility. but it wasnt necessary to also reduce the baseline agility.


and yes there is a thing called power-to-weight ratio. and youve failed miserably to convince anyone that doofus assaults like the atlas are at the power level they need to be at for their weight. In fact your whole power-to-weight argument actually supports why assaults like the atlas/banshee/etc... need better baseline agility; because their power level isnt where it needs to be for their weight.

Edited by Khobai, 21 May 2018 - 10:44 AM.

[Verilligo]

Khobai, on 21 May 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

what are you talking about?

it was free before

did you forget they redid the skill tree, took away all the mobility skills that used to be free under the old system, and made them cost points... points that now arnt worth spending on mobility because the percentage increases are pathetic.

the baseline agility of assaults that they used to get *for free* was majorly nerfed. thats a fact.


and yes there is a thing called power-to-weight ratio. and youve failed miserably to convince anyone that assaults like the atlas are at the power level they need to be at for their weight.

I think what he's trying to say is that giving assaults reasonable mobility like they used to have while not requiring them to take a huge engine to get it would be giving them that mobility "for free." Not that I necessarily agree, but he's not referring to skill tree stuff regardless.

[R Valentine]

Verilligo, on 21 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

I think what he's trying to say is that giving assaults reasonable mobility like they used to have while not requiring them to take a huge engine to get it would be giving them that mobility "for free." Not that I necessarily agree, but he's not referring to skill tree stuff regardless.

Only clan mechs ever had that luxury, except maybe for the Battlemaster which was the only IS mech with ideal hardpoint placement. But clan battlemechs were the ones that benefited the most from larger engines because they actually had the weight to fit them. IS mechs had to trade weight for survivability in terms of XL engines to make up that gap, and bad hit boxes removed that option from most of them.

[Vonbach]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 May 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Only clan mechs ever had that luxury, except maybe for the Battlemaster which was the only IS mech with ideal hardpoint placement. But clan battlemechs were the ones that benefited the most from larger engines because they actually had the weight to fit them. IS mechs had to trade weight for survivability in terms of XL engines to make up that gap, and bad hit boxes removed that option from most of them.

Then they gave us the LFE right after they nuked mobility.

[Verilligo]

Kiran Yagami, on 21 May 2018 - 10:45 AM, said:

Only clan mechs ever had that luxury, except maybe for the Battlemaster which was the only IS mech with ideal hardpoint placement. But clan battlemechs were the ones that benefited the most from larger engines because they actually had the weight to fit them. IS mechs had to trade weight for survivability in terms of XL engines to make up that gap, and bad hit boxes removed that option from most of them.

Not necessarily only the Battlemaster, though it's definitely one of the most apparent candidates and Clan mechs in general were the most dramatically advantaged by engine coupling. But it also heavily impacted mechs like the Atlas that depended on mounting a big engine and gaining the maneuverability granted by it in order to twist off damage in a brawl. BNC-3M, too, quite likely. From what I can tell, all of those mechs were never given maneuverability even close to what they could achieve before once decoupling was done.

[Khobai]

Verilligo, on 21 May 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

I think what he's trying to say is that giving assaults reasonable mobility like they used to have while not requiring them to take a huge engine to get it would be giving them that mobility "for free." Not that I necessarily agree, but he's not referring to skill tree stuff regardless.

i dont really know what he was trying to say

but what I do know is that between engine desync nerfs and losing the free skill tree mobility buffs that assaults have suffered heavily on the mobility front

and that there is certainly room to improve assault agility without making them as ludicrously agile as they once were

[Vonbach]

Khobai, on 21 May 2018 - 01:21 PM, said:

i dont really know what he was trying to say

but what I do know is that between engine desync nerfs and losing the free skill tree mobility buffs that assaults have suffered heavily on the mobility front

and that there is certainly room to improve assault agility without making them as ludicrously agile as they once were

Whats wrong with agile assault mechs? It actually made 100 brawlers a danger instead of the pitiful joke they are now.
Never mind the agility nerf made everyone handle like a boat and was pretty much a nerf to fun across the board.

[FupDup]

Vonbach, on 21 May 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:

Whats wrong with agile assault mechs? It actually made 100 brawlers a danger instead of the pitiful joke they are now.
Never mind the agility nerf made everyone handle like a boat and was pretty much a nerf to fun across the board.

The issue is that if big mechs get too agile, that makes smaller mechs entirely obsolete because mobility is the only advantage they have. I'm not saying the current values are great, just that there needs to always be a considerable agility gap to prevent MWO from devolving into the same exact tonnage arm's race that every MW game has before it (and even that new HBS game).

[Khobai]

Quote

The issue is that if big mechs get too agile, that makes smaller mechs entirely obsolete because mobility is the only advantage they have.

uh most smaller mechs are obsolete regardless of whether assault mechs are agile or not

assault mechs shouldnt get punished because light mechs are bad

instead PGI should finish their fourth pillar which was supposed to be role warfare... and give light mechs a supplemental role like electronic warfare/sensor warfare/scouting/spotting, etc... because most light mechs are always going to fall short in a pure combat role; thats just the reality of the light weight class.

so yeah they need to restore agility to assaults. because assaults have crap survivability now without the ability to torso twist. thats a fact.

and then they should create a supplemental role for lights to perform besides combat, which most lights dont have a chance in hell of competing at anyway.

its not that hard, most of these new abilities could be sensor skill tree unlocks:
-add ECM ghost mode so light mechs can create fake radar contacts
-bring back ECM sensor disruption so light mechs can cut enemy mechs off from sharing sensor info with their team
-add seismic probes that light mechs can deploy
-add a sensor skill that actually lets BAP do what its supposed to: be able to see through terrain and detect enemy mechs regardless of LoS
-nerf sensor ranges on assaults/heavies so theyre more dependent on lights/mediums for sensor info
-buff NARC, give NARC some extra abilities so NARC is actually worth taking
-buff TAG, add in arrowIV so lights have a role TAGGING things for artillery mechs

theres so many different options for creating supplemental roles for light mechs. relieve lights of the burden of having to compete for damage. then you dont have to keep nerfing assaults.

Edited by Khobai, 21 May 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 21 May 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

uh most smaller mechs are obsolete regardless of whether assault mechs are agile or not

assault mechs shouldnt get punished because light mechs are bad

Not just lights, I'm talking about stuff like heavies replacing mediums.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 21 May 2018 - 07:35 PM, said:

instead PGI should finish their fourth pillar which was supposed to be role warfare... and give light mechs an actual role like electronic warfare, sensor warfare, scouting/spotting, etc...

Some lights like the KFX, ADR, UM, PNT, COU, etc. are meant to combat oriented.

Furthermore, this is a first person shooter. Shooting stuff is intrinsically fun. Pressing and holding the R key all day for teammate LRM potatoes is not.

[Asym]

FupDup, on 21 May 2018 - 06:23 PM, said:

The issue is that if big mechs get too agile, that makes smaller mechs entirely obsolete because mobility is the only advantage they have. I'm not saying the current values are great, just that there needs to always be a considerable agility gap to prevent MWO from devolving into the same exact tonnage arm's race that every MW game has before it (and even that new HBS game).

What a bunch of horse dooey..... Too agile? Mechs are bi-pedal, DUH ! Like little of no friction to slow a turn....

My NTG before the massive agility nerf were beasts and medium and light mechs had better be paying attention cause the NTG could turn with them...... Oh yes, poor medium and light mechs can't take advantage.....oh, the tears I'm shedding. Yes, we massacred lights and mediums stupid enough to come in close..... Then, PGI destroyed an entire mech class and lights now could do what ever they wanted because heavy and assaults "could not turn with them..."

Engine desync was about one thing and one thing only: SALES.... PGi destroyed your brand new mech and they assumed you'd just buy another.... Well, they were wrong and they drove off thousands of pilots with such stupidity...... I have not spent 1 penny with PGI since Feb of 2017 and will never again spend a cent UNTIL PGI returns my NTG series to their pre-skill tree capabilities..... they won't and I won't ever spend a penny....... They have lost tens of thousands in revenue and losing more everyday they continue their insane "balance" antics......

[FupDup]

Asym, on 21 May 2018 - 07:48 PM, said:

What a bunch of horse dooey..... Too agile? Mechs are bi-pedal, DUH ! Like little of no friction to slow a turn....

My NTG before the massive agility nerf were beasts and medium and light mechs had better be paying attention cause the NTG could turn with them...... Oh yes, poor medium and light mechs can't take advantage.....oh, the tears I'm shedding. Yes, we massacred lights and mediums stupid enough to come in close..... Then, PGI destroyed an entire mech class and lights now could do what ever they wanted because heavy and assaults "could not turn with them..."

If you don't want lights or mediums to be able to take advantage of your mobility weakness up close, then where exactly are they supposed to be able to outplay you? Yes, you have to answer this. There needs to be some sort of situation where heavies and assaults are less effective than a medium or light, similar to how there are situations where a medium or light are much less effective than a heavy or assault. Different strengths for different classes.

You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.

Edited by FupDup, 21 May 2018 - 07:55 PM.