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Radar Dep Needs To Be Removed Or Replaced With Something Else


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#41 Moochachoo

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:39 PM

I think the skill tree itself needs alittle rework, there are too many no brainer skills that most mechs take (with few exceptions).

Left side of survival, we can call basic armour.

Left top quarter mobility, we can call basic torso speed.

Left side of sensors, the three basic radar deprivation.

#42 dario03

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:50 PM

View PostArmored Yokai, on 24 May 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

It's too good of a skill to even be allowed, this makes is really hard to beat a light because of their speed and leg humping tendencies.

All the players that use Radar dep have to do is play peekaboo and will instantly win because of lock ons constantly being negated because of something so simple as cover.

Radar dep needs to be removed or replaced with something like 'enemies can't see your weapons but can still target you.'

*Reason for this thread is final straw dealing with lights less than 30 tons mounting radar dep making it harder to lock on (is Radar dep supposed to increase lock on time?) so irritating when you get a lock and they just run behind you*
*I dont mind radar dep with lrms because i can always look somewhere else, it's just the streaks getting denied not fun*


Light mechs having one of their main defensive strengths countered by an auto-aim weapon is also not fun.

So I would say that streaks need to be changed before any radar dep changes are made.

#43 Khobai

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:52 PM

radar deprivation does need to be changed. it shouldnt hard counter target decay. that just makes anyone who puts points in target decay look like a smacked *** who wasted skill points for nothing.

instead radar deprivation and target decay should cancel eachother out.

Quote

So I would say that streaks need to be changed before any radar dep changes are made.


no. because assault agility got nerfed into the ground. its fair for there to be at least one weapon assaults can use to kill lights that are facehugging them.

because its not fun playing a gimped assault being facehugged by lights either. dont act like lights dont contribute to making the game less fun either, because they do.

besides streaks already got nerfed vs lights a couple patches ago.

Edited by Khobai, 24 May 2018 - 08:03 PM.


#44 Flutterguy

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:58 PM

View Postdario03, on 24 May 2018 - 07:50 PM, said:


Light mechs having one of their main defensive strengths countered by an auto-aim weapon is also not fun.

So I would say that streaks need to be changed before any radar dep changes are made.

Despite the OP, Streaks are actually rarely affected by Radar Deprivation. Once the target gets cover they aren't getting hit by streaks whether there's a lock or not.

Edited by Flutterguy, 24 May 2018 - 07:58 PM.


#45 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:02 PM

Use direct firing Weapons ,learn aim and not stand with LRM Assaults 1000m away from the team ...best uses for LRMs 400-600m ...better all the LRM Terrainbuilder learn to play

#46 dario03

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:29 PM

View PostKhobai, on 24 May 2018 - 07:52 PM, said:

radar deprivation does need to be changed. it shouldnt hard counter target decay. that just makes anyone who puts points in target decay look like a smacked *** who wasted skill points for nothing.

instead radar deprivation and target decay should cancel eachother out.



no. because assault agility got nerfed into the ground. its fair for there to be at least one weapon assaults can use to kill lights that are facehugging them.

because its not fun playing a gimped assault being facehugged by lights either. dont act like lights dont contribute to making the game less fun either, because they do.

besides streaks already got nerfed vs lights a couple patches ago.

Lots of mechs have had their agility reduced, not just assaults.

All weapons can kill lights. Some are very good at it too, some just require a bit more aim.

Gimped assaults? Some assaults might not be that great just like some of every other weight class but the top assaults are pretty much the best mechs in the game. And lights contribute to making the game more fun. If we went with the make assaults even more powerful that some push for then we would have less variety.

And streaks weren't really nerfed against lights, at least not in a meaningful way. They were buffed against everything else and now instead of legging a light all the time, they might leg it or they might blow a torso off, either way the light is still screwed by an auto aim weapon.

View PostFlutterguy, on 24 May 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

Despite the OP, Streaks are actually rarely affected by Radar Deprivation. Once the target gets cover they aren't getting hit by streaks whether there's a lock or not.


It has some affect. You can't always just get into cover and then stay there. The streak mech might just get closer and if you don't have dep he might still have lock. Or if you get to cover from the streak mech but are getting shot by others from range you might need to move.
Or maybe before the target is aware of the streak mech it might be moving between cover and can be spotted by multiple mechs that the streak mech uses to get a lock before he even sees the target. Without dep its possible to keep a lock on a mech for a decent amount of time even if it isn't being spotted for a good portion of that time. So somebody might get a pre lock and then when the target moves into sight he can fire instantly even if the target had moved out of sight/range of all others a little bit before.
Plus having dep lets you duck behind cover and then jump right back out to get a shot. Without it theres a good chance you could just get hit.
In short making the streak mech have to reacquire locks more often is helpful. Especially if you want to fight back and not just run.

Edited by dario03, 24 May 2018 - 08:32 PM.


#47 Flutterguy

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:38 PM

View Postdario03, on 24 May 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:




It has some affect. You can't always just get into cover and then stay there. The streak mech might just get closer and if you don't have dep he might still have lock. Or if you get to cover from the streak mech but are getting shot by others from range you might need to move. Or maybe before the target is aware of the streak mech it might be moving between cover and can be spotted by multiple mechs that the streak mech uses to get a lock before he even sees the target. Without dep its possible to keep a lock on a mech for a decent amount of time even if it isn't being spotted for a good portion of that time. So somebody might get a pre lock and then when the target moves into sight he can fire instantly even if the target had moved out of sight/range of all others a little bit before.

Sure there are times it comes up, but it's rare enough that there's no balance concern caused by Radar Dep for streaks.

#48 Old dirty B

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:42 PM

View PostArmored Yokai, on 24 May 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Wait wait what!?
Wrong guy....I only take streaks on my maddog.
I wasnt even on yesterday and I havent used my maddog for a long time.


Boating streaks and complain about radar dep...

Lol

#49 dario03

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:44 PM

View PostFlutterguy, on 24 May 2018 - 08:38 PM, said:

Sure there are times it comes up, but it's rare enough that there's no balance concern caused by Radar Dep for streaks.

Alright you convinced me. I'm changing my suggestion from "nerf streaks vs lights, then change dep" to "nerf streaks vs lights, and no change to dep".

Edited by dario03, 24 May 2018 - 08:45 PM.


#50 Flutterguy

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:50 PM

View Postdario03, on 24 May 2018 - 08:44 PM, said:

Alright you convinced me. I'm changing my suggestion from "nerf streaks vs lights, then change dep" to "nerf streaks vs lights, and no change to dep".

Well we will obviously never agree.Posted Image I say no change to streaks or dep and buff the hell out of lights in general.

#51 dario03

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:56 PM

View PostFlutterguy, on 24 May 2018 - 08:50 PM, said:

Well we will obviously never agree.Posted Image I say no change to streaks or dep and buff the hell out of lights in general.


That works too.

#52 Baba_Yaga

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:02 PM

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 25 May 2018 - 12:54 PM.
unconstructive


#53 Yosharian

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:04 PM

Lol at people that still use lock-on weapons

#54 sumbody

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:09 PM

View PostArmored Yokai, on 24 May 2018 - 04:16 PM, said:

Wait wait what!?
Wrong guy....I only take streaks on my maddog.
I wasnt even on yesterday and I havent used my maddog for a long time.

If you are using streaks, Radar Derp is not your problem. Cover in general is your problem. Streaks don't fly over cover even if you do have lock. Yeah you will lose lock, but you still have to follow the mech to regain lock.

#55 Khobai

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:32 PM

Quote

Lots of mechs have had their agility reduced, not just assaults.


assaults were hit the hardest by far

#56 Kubernetes

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:54 PM

1) Artemis. It speeds up Streak lock time, even though it shouldn't.
2) Light active probe.
3) Light Tag. Put a little big of armor in one arm, equip light tag, use it religiously.
4) Target Decay and Target Retention. Retention is actually more important when in a tight dogfight.

#57 ANOM O MECH

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:17 PM

My, my you're silly.

Thanks for starting thread though, as the reads so far are pure gold.

#58 Kubernetes

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:23 PM

View PostYosharian, on 24 May 2018 - 09:04 PM, said:

Lol at people that still use lock-on weapons


Gotta be honest, every once in a while it scratches that itch when I feel like strolling about in the backfield harvesting lights one by one.

#59 Relixander

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:30 PM

Could not read any further after.

... because of something so simple as cover.

I just couldn't, it was a matter of principle at that point.

#60 dario03

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:31 PM

View PostKhobai, on 24 May 2018 - 09:32 PM, said:


assaults were hit the hardest by far


They are still very powerful though. Annihilators and Mad Cat MKIIs have some of the slowest turn and torso twist rates in the game but yet both are top mechs.





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