108 replies to this topic

[BTGbullseye]

Flutterguy, on 24 May 2018 - 08:50 PM, said:

Well we will obviously never agree. I say no change to streaks or dep and buff the hell out of lights in general.

But I think the Lights should be nerfbuffed, while the Streaks and Dep get buffnerfed...

[Old dirty B]

Armored Yokai, on 24 May 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

It's too good of a skill to even be allowed, this makes is really hard to beat a light because of their speed and leg humping tendencies.

Arent you the guy that offered "anti-light services", things aren't working out huh?

[Xetelian]

Are you confusing Radar Dep with ECM?


Radar Dep doesn't prevent you from getting a lock, it just makes it go away instantly when they get behind cover.

[Bishop Six]

*compounding personal wishes with allegedly objective analysis*

[S t P a u l]

Oh my ****.

Edited by S t P a u l, 25 May 2018 - 01:30 AM.

[sycocys]

Spare Parts Bin, on 24 May 2018 - 05:51 PM, said:

The skill tree is a pain in the butt, I hate to see what else PGI would replace it with.

It doesn't need to be replaced, it just needs to have a cost to the loadouts. Free, customizable buffs are just not good design for PvP - especially when its not 100% accessible from top to bottom for every player.

[DGTLDaemon]

Lights can only be killed with streaks. Streaks are useless against light mechs with radar derp. Therefore, radar derp needs to be removed from the game.

(OP's logic )

[Weeny Machine]

Flutterguy, on 24 May 2018 - 03:59 PM, said:

I honestly can't tell if this is a joke topic or not.

Which one? That about Radar Dep or that of an overpowered brawling light mech?

[Old-dirty B]

Bush Hopper, on 25 May 2018 - 01:58 AM, said:

Which one? That about Radar Dep or that of an overpowered brawling light mech?

The one about needing even more assistance with my auto aim weaponry.

[Khobai]

you guys are overcomplicating it. just make radar decay cancel out with radar derp like it used to and were good to go. thats the only change needed.

[Old-dirty B]

Khobai, on 25 May 2018 - 02:16 AM, said:

you guys are overcomplicating it. just make radar decay cancel out with radar derp like it used to and were good to go. thats the only change needed.

There's no problem other then a few individuals blaming the system for personal failure.

[BTGbullseye]

sycocys, on 25 May 2018 - 01:47 AM, said:

It doesn't need to be replaced, it just needs to have a cost to the loadouts. Free, customizable buffs are just not good design for PvP - especially when its not 100% accessible from top to bottom for every player.

You're gonna need to explain that to me, as I seem to recall that there is nothing preventing a player from using the entire skill tree on any of their non-trial mechs, (which they can easily buy and outfit by the end of their 25-match bonus period) and that it costs both XP and C-Bills to unlock each node...

[ANOM O MECH]

Relixander, on 24 May 2018 - 10:30 PM, said:

Could not read any further after. ... because of something so simple as cover. I just couldn't, it was a matter of principle at that point.

AAAAHHHHHHH [Redacted], something silly enough brought Dad to the forums.

Edited by draiocht, 25 May 2018 - 12:42 PM.
inappropriate language

[Chados]

It all comes down to how you LRM. If your LRM game is standing off at maximum range with a 4xLRM20 boat with no defensive armament, no active probe, no UAV or NARC or TAG, mindlessly pouring it on at anything on your HUD, then radar deprivation will be a problem for you.

But if you’re a Tactical LRMer, then you want at least 60% raderp for yourself. Because you’re packing 20-30 tubes on a platform running between 30-65 tons, with at least 20 firepower points in direct fire secondary weapons. You’re packing a device or devices like a UAV or TAG or NARC to obtain your own locks with, and you’re working from the optimal range of your secondaries so you can use everything in your weapons suite when the enemy exposes him/herself. You’re shooting LRMs over your teammates’ heads, carrying enough armor to make a difference and sharing it, staying mobile, and popping LRM fire over obstacles and terrain when enemy mechs hide. You’ve got an active probe to increase your range and target detection, or you’re packing ECM and remember that the J key flips to “counter” for when you’re in suicide range and need to negate light mech ECM for your side’s streak missile carriers. And you have an AMS system to help your AMS carriers negate long distance LRMs from the other side. Point blank LRMs fly shorter, with flatter trajectories, are less vulnerable to AMS, and impact with less spread. And raderp is less problematic because you’re with the team, and close enough for your onboard sensors to work at their best.

Edited by Chados, 25 May 2018 - 03:02 AM.

[Alexander of Macedon]

Jman5, on 24 May 2018 - 07:34 PM, said:

I can't say I agree with OP's reasoning, but 100% radar deprivation became absolutely imbalanced after the skill tree was introduced.

It used to be that the benefits of Radar Deprivation module and the benefits of Target Decay module would essentially cancel each other out leaving you with a couple seconds of lock. This was a good way to balance the two modifiers. Then skill tree came along and made 100% radar deprivation completely hard counter 100% target decay and the base target retention time.

Sure some people will point out that it takes a couple extra points to max out radar deprivation but that's hardly enough to make up for the fact that radar deprivation completely nullifies your target lock time no matter how many points you put into target decay skills.

I think the only saving grace is that 99% of people think they're Neo from The Matrix and don't put any points in Radar Deprivation. It would be a nightmare for game balance if everyone maxed it.

They need to go back to the old way it was balanced where radar deprivation would completely nullify lock on time, unless the player had target decay. Then they would get at least a couple seconds before its lost.

You're forgetting a key point here.

To get module radar derp, you had to take the module. To get skill tree radar derp, you have to take 11 useless nodes on top of the 5 radar derp nodes. That's ~18% of your skill tree just to get full radar derp. Target decay is useless for anything that isn't lockon. Info gathering and sensor range are marginal utility skills that nobody wants instead of armor/firepower/speed tweak unless they're running lurms.

A player using lockons will take the sensor tree as their primary. Pretty much all of those skills are desirable for them, and they get full radar derp + seismic with basically no cost.

The equivalent would have been something like the radar derp module also occupying one of your weapon module slots while the targeting decay module allowed you to take radar derp or seismic without filling a module slot.

[sycocys]

BTGbullseye, on 25 May 2018 - 02:43 AM, said:

You're gonna need to explain that to me, as I seem to recall that there is nothing preventing a player from using the entire skill tree on any of their non-trial mechs, (which they can easily buy and outfit by the end of their 25-match bonus period) and that it costs both XP and C-Bills to unlock each node...

Because whether you are a new player or player that bought a new mech you are immediately at a power level disadvantage because you don't have access to the skill nodes and you are in the same match pools as people that have them maxed out.

"end of their 25-match bonus period" - this is the major problem with the current and prior skill buff system. It's just as much a problem and probably more-so for post cadet until you get to the point you have gxp and c-bills coming out of your ears.

For all the players that don't have a massive excess of convertible xp and c-bills - you have 25 (cadet) (up to ~50ish, maybe less/more depending on the mech and your rng with the MM) matches where you are at a substantial disadvantage before you even hit launch.

Requiring loadout costs for "specialization" would mitigate the majority of the imbalance that the buff tree injects into the game.

[Old-dirty B]

This was even more of a problem before the skill tree. Getting the right modules was a huge grind...

[VonBruinwald]

I'll admit it, Radar-Derp does need a nerf, it should be capped at 95%, not 100%. That's it.

At 100% it hard counters 5 Target Decay nodes (plus Target Decay Quirks) which means somebody who has invested in it with the intention of Streaks/Lurms is immediately penalised. Say what you will but that's hardly fair.

[Nameless King]

sycocys, on 24 May 2018 - 05:43 PM, said:

Another thing that wouldn't be an issue if the node system required crit slots and tonnage.

No to that as well.

[Antares102]

Am I a bad guy if I enjoy the tears of LRM/Streak users?
Anyway, RADAR derp has been nerfed with skill tree because unless you invest tons of points into useless nodes then you will end up with only 60% for it.
Compared to always 100% with old RADAR derp module this is a nerf.

Edited by Antares102, 25 May 2018 - 02:49 PM.
inappropriate language