98 replies to this topic

[Training Instructor]

Lights and mediums are mostly paralyzed by their fear of being crippled by one lucky, or skillful, alpha from some sniper.

So they hide behind the assault mechs for most of the match, forcing the assault to guess where the best place to push is.

It really doesn't help that every guide tells them to do exactly this, because of the threat of getting obliterated instantly for scouting.

It's leading to terrible matches for assaults.

[Cubivorre]

Light/medium mech =/= scout

What, you mean you haven't played every map enough to know exactly where the enemy will be every time? There is normally only one or two places people go to on any given map. Just because a player doesn't sit inside of a 100 ton tryhard mech doesn't mean they are forced into a scouting role.

[Sephlock]

[Syllogy]

Training Instructor, on 20 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Lights and mediums are mostly paralyzed by their fear of being crippled by one lucky, or skillful, alpha from some sniper.

So they hide behind the assault mechs for most of the match, forcing the assault to guess where the best place to push is.

It really doesn't help that every guide tells them to do exactly this, because of the threat of getting obliterated instantly for scouting.

It's leading to terrible matches for assaults.

I don't know what game you are playing, but it ain't MWO.

[hammerreborn]

Scouts arent afraid of alphas, they're afraid of seismic sensor pretty much auto scoutting and then the alphas.

[FupDup]

I don't need a 35-ton walking binoculars to tell me that the enemy is still camping behind the ridge just like they have been for the past seven minutes.

[Training Instructor]

In some games though, people are actually doing different things just to break up the monotony. It helps if scouts can tell you which of the 2-3 fire lanes they're heading towards.

I understand the pain of scouts, having playing Spiders extensively. You scout, and your team still hides behind some ******** ridge where they won't even be fired upon if they crest it as the enemy flanks around them. A couple of games like that you and you finally say "to heck with it" and set it to conquest only and cap it up.

[Bhael Fire]

The problem lies with the game modes and the maps.

Role warfare is diminished by linear objectives. As a result, lights don't have much incentive to "scout" ahead as much as simply run to cap...or provide support by harassing assaults and heavies.

[Haradim]

People (in PUGs at least) don't scout because it isn't worthwhile to do so, has a high risk factor, and the only notably useful information to discover is which way the bulk of their forces went (which is important, but is basically a finished task within 5 minutes as by then the heavies will have committed). If you have a TAG and are lucky, there might be enough LRMs in good positions on your side to get a few extra volleys in, but it cannot be relied upon. And you cannot rely on your team being able to use information about dangerous boats even if that data is provided in advance of main contact.

With that in mind, ECM lights are useful if kept close to the main force, especially if fate decided not to grant you a half dozen ECM-equipped heavies\assaults

[Foxfire]

There is no real reason to.

The problem is that there is no reason for forces to spread out. Since the bulk of the heavy force have no reason to spread out, the maps(even the larger ones) become very linear and predictable. Combo that with now easy it is to get legged in a Light now(even at 150 kph).. and there really isn't much reward for stepping out too far from the main force.

IMO if they did more to encourage forces to spread out, you'd start seeing more value in scouting.

[General Taskeen]

Basically it all boils down to the abysmal failure of any lack of actual Information Warfare items. The whole ECM/TAG/PPC/SSRM/BAP has been relegated to combat purposes, rather than providing a deeper information warfare from the get-go. That's why you never see a Raven-3L in anything CLOSE to its original configuration, which was loaded to the BRIM with every Info Warfare gadget from Battle Tech that made it the ideal electronic packaged scout mech.

Edited by General Taskeen, 20 June 2013 - 05:21 PM.

[Foxfire]

General Taskeen, on 20 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Basically it all boils down to the abysmal failure of any lack of actual Information Warfare items. The whole ECM/TAG/PPC/SSRM/BAP has been relegated to combat purposes, rather than providing a deeper information warfare from the get-go. That's why you never see a Raven-3L in anything CLOSE to its original configuration, which was loaded to the BRIM with every Info Warfare gadget from Battle Tech that made it the ideal electronic packaged scout mech.

Which makes me sad because it was the Raven-3L that I've waited for from the day that the Raven was announced.

This is the role that I want to fulfill but it is just so.. lackluster in its implementation,.

[Urdnot Mau]

Mediums should indeed be afraid of engaging without assault's help. They job is to support assaults. But light mechs really should roam the map and bring up targets, even if that means they have to take a few lasers to the face.

[Foxfire]

Urdnot Mau, on 20 June 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

Mediums should indeed be afraid of engaging without assault's help. They job is to support assaults. But light mechs really should roam the map and bring up targets, even if that means they have to take a few lasers to the face.

Eh.. the problem is that the Mediums are supposed to be the main bulk of the force since they have decent firepower but still maintain good mobility.

The problem is that this game doesn't do enough to encourage a mobile force over stacking mass firepower.

[Deathlike]

There is almost no reason to do this... no bonus and close to no benefit.

I personally value it, because usually every bit of info produces a better chance at overall success. I prefer to scout and report back.. but whatever.

If we used a risk-benefit analysis graphic or something, I'm sure this is at the bottom of PGI's care list, just like most of you that feel about it.

Edited by Deathlike, 20 June 2013 - 08:08 PM.

[Jman5]

Scouting/Intel will always be one of the most underrated aspect of the game because it's impact is difficult to quantify. However, I'm actually ok with that. I know my pug teams will have good scouting because I will personally take care of it. If the other teams don't want to recognize it's value than I'll just win more.

[DaisuSaikoro Nagasawa]

Training Instructor, on 20 June 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Lights and mediums are mostly paralyzed by their fear of being crippled by one lucky, or skillful, alpha from some sniper.

So they hide behind the assault mechs for most of the match, forcing the assault to guess where the best place to push is.

It really doesn't help that every guide tells them to do exactly this, because of the threat of getting obliterated instantly for scouting.

It's leading to terrible matches for assaults.

Good scout pilots are just hard to come by... and by that I mean pilots who find enemy mechs, translates that information, and keeps from dying.

General Taskeen, on 20 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Basically it all boils down to the abysmal failure of any lack of actual Information Warfare items. The whole ECM/TAG/PPC/SSRM/BAP has been relegated to combat purposes, rather than providing a deeper information warfare from the get-go. That's why you never see a Raven-3L in anything CLOSE to its original configuration, which was loaded to the BRIM with every Info Warfare gadget from Battle Tech that made it the ideal electronic packaged scout mech.

General Taskeen, on 20 June 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

Basically it all boils down to the abysmal failure of any lack of actual Information Warfare items. The whole ECM/TAG/PPC/SSRM/BAP has been relegated to combat purposes, rather than providing a deeper information warfare from the get-go. That's why you never see a Raven-3L in anything CLOSE to its original configuration, which was loaded to the BRIM with every Info Warfare gadget from Battle Tech that made it the ideal electronic packaged scout mech.

The fact that the raven takes 4 modules kind of negates this.

Seismic, Advanced Sensor, Decay, and UAV makes for a really killer electronics package. (oh and bap and ecm)

[sarkun]

There's no scouts, because in 95% of matches the only thing the scout could say would be:

"Enemy is.... where they always are." - This is just a big fail on PGI's part. They failed to create game modes / content that would promote anything else than "boat massive alpha".

You just can't expect people to drive mechs that are useful only 5% of the time! That's why every light is build for close combat.

And mediums? Who drives mediums?

[Kissamies]

What? I scout all the time and I think I'm usually at least moderately useful. It's not horribly risky either unless I'm careless and blunder right into their main assault blob. I get some distant hits, but nothing like an alpha to the knee. Of course I don't only scout, but also try to slip into their rear, strike when they are occupied and try to spot for missile boats if any.

As for mediums, I play them with wingman mentality. I either stick with heavies and assaults to keep lights off their back or go help the lights when they have bitten off more than they can chew.

[Tolkien]

Scouting is still very useful, but it is not well used in most PUG games and likely won't be until we have integrated voice comm.

It is very very useful to have early warning that the enemy is pushing a flank or hiding behind a ridge, and if you have coordinated lrm support an ecm scout hidden on the flank of the enemy is deadly. However in most PUG games it takes far too much time to type out "I am on their flank hidden and tagging, please put your missiles on target Beta... wait no he's moving into cover, fire on Charlie instead who I still can paint.." etc.

I think scouting will become more important to play once there is integrated voice comm.
I know scouting will become more important to play once there is integrated voice comm and a lobby where you can sort out team comp prior to dropping.