831 replies to this topic

[Summin]

8v8 would be great, It would help include teamwork as there will be less peeps to ignore orders. Everyone would feel more involved in the match. Time to kill would be reduced as well, giving less skilled players a better chance to figure out what was going wrong.

Secondly, MRBC would benefit more from the balancing and having a mirror between MRBC and QP formats would allow peeps to feel more involved in MRBC.

Lastly, It would separate faction play and quickplay a bit more and give both a bit more identity from another.

[Kossi]

Summin, on 07 June 2018 - 03:29 AM, said:

8v8 would be great, It would help include teamwork as there will be less peeps to ignore orders. Everyone would feel more involved in the match.

What world you are living in??? You can't control bad pugs. Its just impossible...

Only solution to that is a new MM based on match score & K/D ratio.

[TheFourthAlly]

Official poll, but not a word on the front page? Odd.

I like 12v12, see no reason for 8v8. Even from Oz I get games nice and quick.

[Scyther]

Personally I feel locking it to either 12v12 or 8v8 will cause as much unhappiness as it fixes. I've mentioned in other threads that since the MM has already had functioning 8 and 12 per side versions, then it can do both. It can even do 4v4 as shown in Scouting.

When population is high and there is decent pilot supply, the MM should be making mostly 12v12s. When population is lower, and/or the pilot skill spread/weight class/time limit requires it, the MM can drop to 8v8. 4v4 mode should perhaps be something that occasionally pops up in Solaris.

12v12 uses the larger maps well, 8v8 would allow bringing back some of the older maps.

This should not be an option where people can 'opt in/out' of various MM sizes, as that will only split the population further.

MWO is in desperate need of more variety, not just swapping one option for another. This isn't a binary choice.

Worst comes to worst, if the coders can't handle flex-sizing in MM, make QP 8v8, GP and FP 12v12, Solaris up to 4v4. And get rid of 7 divisions. And use an intelligent MM.

Edit: Forgot. My personal preference is for 12v12 in QP. I just think availability of other sizes would help keep more players happy.

Edited by MadBadger, 07 June 2018 - 04:16 AM.

[Omigir]

Please yes bring back 8v8. 12v12 sucks if your pugging and matches take too lone because no one wants to get shot.

[Darkstrand]

As much as I like the idea of 8v8 in QP, I would rather see FP be improved. If this change would affect that, I have to vote No.

[Sardauker Legion]

The actual maps are created for 12 vs 12 matches. Too big for 8 vs 8.

[AlphaPiAlpha]

8vs8 for Quickplay, 12 vs 12 for Faction, PERFECT!

[Dracol]

Brain Cancer, on 06 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

Actually, I got better with age, but my one and only 8-kill game was in beta. Nowadays, a good game is 4-6 kills, simply because I accumulate more damage faster and you've got the same HP as before, only 33% more people have a chance to shoot you at any given time.

The odds of one target being gang-fired to death before their weapons recycle more than once is greater in 12v12 than 8v8, and the potency of a deathball is higher and tougher to pick apart. As for carrying?



Meh. That was within the last week, BTW.

The only difference is that in 8v8, there's more likely going to be someone capable of going the distance, or at least enough to cause the enemy team to lose cohesion. That's what I see these days, and 8v8 at least means more people get a chance to be the hero (not even mentioning the match rate naturally increases with 8v8)- there's precious few people that will legit Death Star a team. There's a modest number that can Ace of Spades one. There's a respectable number who can Johnny Five, and so on. Most people generate 1-2 kills per match at best. 8v8 will also magnify THEIR efforts and make them feel like they're actually doing something. Heck, in 8v8, they will be.

The flip side, 12 v 12 provides you 4 more meat shields to hide behind in an ecm mech to rack up higher damage numbers. There will be a drop in damage numbers across the board, but those high damage earning players will see the biggest drop, making them feel like they are doing less a game then they used to.

[Harrels Badgerton]

I voted for 8v8. Helps the matchmaker and less idle hill humpers to run into each other.
In my experience there isn't much teamplay to be had in QP anyway. 8 people can kind of loosely keep track of each other better than 12 people. The team that actually works together just a little bit better is the one that will win anyway

[Kidd Sykes]

I'm not opposed to the 8v8 but it should be its own mode with other game modes in it as well like an assault on a firebase? Call it Alamo or something? Lol but no kidding, QP is good enough as a 12v12, though 8v8 does feel like it's missing

[Imperius]

Scarecrow24th, on 07 June 2018 - 12:50 AM, said:

I will not spend any money on new 'Mechs if 12 vs 12 plays are replaced by 8 vs 8. I am against 8 vs 8. A big deal, Nope. I am really angry about what is decided here!

But why?

[Shatter Shot]

If anything switching to 8v8 makes the game less "EPIC". Generally the matches will be smaller, shorter. Tactics will have less value, since larger teams require more organization and thought. Smaller matches will allow for premades groups to more easily dominate the quickplay queue. As its certainly easier to get 8 people together than 12. It will cause balance issues with maps with capture points.

Firmly in the "NO" on this change.

Edited by FireFoxy, 07 June 2018 - 04:51 AM.

[Agent of Change]

I'm going to go with a big no on this one.

I was there in Closed beta, I remember how bad things got with the PUG/Premade war. I remember the, IMO, baffling decision to say that unless you had 2, 4 or 8 you couldn't play with friends. I remember that the 8v8 team queue became a wasteland of 8 man try-hard teams stomping anyone who wasn't. I remember game after game of Steiner scout lances, I remember the already dubious place of Lights and mediums in MWO being more or less relegated to a bad joke.

I like the game play of 8v8, don't get me wrong. But given the larger size of the maps now, the fact that in 12v12 you have room for a few light mediums and the big boys, the fact that MM times are not bad at all these days, I just can't get behind going back to 8v8.

Unless PGI can address the following I can't support it:

• Control Drop comp in a firm way that prevents 4 assaults in an 8 man team ever
  
• Ways to keep lights and mediums viable in smaller teams
  
• A way to reliably drop with groups of 2,3,4,and 5 (none of that 2, 4 or 8 BS)
  
• Address map size in a way that makes 8 man teams work and not get lost in giant maps.
  
• All of the above with a faster than current match wait times (which are on average extremely reasonable IMO)

I will amend this with a another way i'd support an 8V8 QP:

• Two queues as now only the "team queue" is 8 mans ONLY, and the "solo queue" is for people drop solo or in groups of 2,3,or 4 like it was for much of closed beta only with a maximum of 4 groups players on a side. This fixes much of the issues of comp issue for the 8 man teams and the casual players can play casually with friends without breaking "solo queue" teams.

Edited by Agent of Change, 07 June 2018 - 05:32 AM.

[Koniving]

Paul Inouye, on 06 June 2018 - 04:02 PM, said:

1) Enter queue as group of 10.
2) System decides to switch to 8v8.
3) Might as well paint the livingroom while waiting.

But if we're discussing Solo Queue as 8 vs 8, and you enter as a group of 10... well you'd never be in solo queue anyway, right?

[Agent of Change]

Koniving, on 07 June 2018 - 05:22 AM, said:

But if we're discussing Solo Queue as 8 vs 8, and you enter as a group of 10... well you'd never be in solo queue anyway, right?

True about solo queue but they are also talking about group queue going 8v8 as well. ALL of QP becoming 8v8 and the only place for 12v12 would be faction wars.

[JonnyTaco]

I voted yes but I'd rather have both. The best solution imo would be to review the maps, see which are best suited to 8v8 and re-introduce the old man maps to fill out the lineup. Give us a drop down check box for 12v12, 8v8, and either/or.

[Summin]

Kossi, on 07 June 2018 - 03:59 AM, said:

What world you are living in??? You can't control bad pugs. Its just impossible...

Only solution to that is a new MM based on match score & K/D ratio.

Not everyone is a bad pug though. Sadly people will throw games but that's not exclusive to MWO.

8v8 will help a lot because it's less of a mob mentality and more of a squad. I don't see many benefits for 12v12 over 8v8 for QP as it's supposed to be Quick play. Larger teams are more suited to longer games such as faction play.

Match making based on skill has nothing to do with it.

[Koniving]

Agent of Change, on 07 June 2018 - 05:15 AM, said:

Unless PGI can address the following I can't support it:

• Control Drop comp in a firm way that prevents 4 assaults in an 8 man team ever
  
• Ways to keep lights and mediums viable in smaller teams

Personally, both of these were NEVER necessary.

1) A team of 4+ assaults (Almost) ALWAYS LOSES... (I've had times where the other team is so completely incompetent that half of them rage quit at the start of the match and leave only 2 to 4 people left to fight).
2) The issue of keeping mediums and lights viable isn't really an issue in a 4 player group. Its addressing the issue that heavies trump the other three groups completely, and assaults are at the bottom of the barrel in small groups unless working in tandem. Even then... they weren't that good back when they could take abuse. Now you fire two salvos of 70+ damage and bam, assault down in 9 seconds or less from one heavy sporting laser vomit.


Four assaults slaughtered by 7 assaults and 1 light. Remaining team of 2 mediums and 2 heavies... as 2 Hunchbacks, 1 Catapult and 1 Dragon... SLAUGHTER 6 Atlases, 1 Awesome, and 1 Raven 3L.

There's no issue about whether or not mediums could pull it off.
Or Lights

One of the worst designs you can possibly do... and it still worked.

I mean these can be absolutely terrible ideas especially modern day, but even back then... standing toe to toe against mediums, heavies and assaults, slower than 81 kph, fighting mostly while running BACKWARDS so half that speed, and still trumping them. Lights are OP man, didn't ya know? Imagine if it was a competent light pilot like this guy. The Jenner at the end here gives 5 enemies, heavies and assaults alike, including the full compliment of a premade 4 man with communication in the solo queue, a hell of a run for their money to where the strategy became to trap the Jenner in a corner.


What matters is that in the end, we have no limits to how many of whatever mechs are in and no matching weights. If we get that, we can fundamentally change everything about the 'meta' and create a truly dynamic battleground.

Agent of Change, on 07 June 2018 - 05:23 AM, said:

True about solo queue but they are also talking about group queue going 8v8 as well. ALL of QP becoming 8v8 and the only place for 12v12 would be faction wars.

Then what about the big groups of 24+ players who want to go in and just battle each other in the 12 vs 12 group queue?
I mean why change that?

Edited by Koniving, 07 June 2018 - 05:44 AM.

[SilentFenris]

I say no. If going from 12v12 to 8v8 were as simple as throwing a switch I would support it. As others stated, the switch would involve work hours for PGI that could be better spent. Sticking with 12v12 allows PGI to:
- continue to use maps for both Quickplay and Factionplay with need to account for variable teams of 8 or 12.
- focus on optimization of performance by working on maps / gameclient rather than a bandaid fix of reducing mechs per match.
- save the MWO player-base the hassle of having to redesign mech Loadouts and Skilltrees. Faction Play, Scouting and Solaris all have different meta. Changing Quickplay from 12v12 to 8v8 will change Meta.