831 replies to this topic

[Papaspud]

My 2 cents-

The maps are fine, lets be real, nobody uses the whole map anyway- or rarely

No 12v12 or 8v8 option, the builds for mechs with ammo are different, would have to change all the time= pain in the ***

it is time to go back to 8v8, AND reset psr, there are just too many folks in tier1 that really shouldn't be there..... like me

[CharlieDelta]

Maps are different some maps feel empty in 8vs8 some maps feel crowded in 12v12.
My suggestion.
Base map on player population or give players a choice in playing 8v8 or 12v12.

[PlayerUnknown]

I want FFA like in mw4 mercs and mw2 mercs.

[A_Velociraptor]

I would love to return to 8v8, less mechs on the field means a lot of good things. More stable framerates due to less mech parts needed to be handled(which we all know is the biggest drain on resources), less high damage alpha's due to heat needed to be managed better or risk being out of the fight for several seconds at a time putting your team at a huge disadvantage while you cool off, teamwork being more of a necessity thanks to smaller teams. Lights would also have a bigger impact besides just being annoying.

[Helsbane]

A PSR / Tier reset would do far more for matchmaking than simply reducing the number of players per match. I consider myself to be a serviceable or competent pilot at most. Solid tier 3 material crossing into T2 on a really good day. That said I stand by 8v8 during low pop hours and utilizing the old maps for those matches.

[Bhaal1998]

12vs12 for group drops in quickplay,,, 8vs8 for solo plays in quickplay some may say its going to divide numbers but what can one do about it or put it in PTS and see how many does group drops and solo

[Bummer960]

This may be programming headache, but I'd like to suggest it.

What if the games were 8v8 or 12v12 based on how many players were currently in game/looking for a game. The games would scale themselves according to the census of players. When population is low, QP games might be 8v8. When population is higher, then they would scale up to 12v12.

Again, that is a tall order and quite complex.

That being said I I support QP 8v8.

One last thing: Congrats on putting together a great game and a great community. I have never seen a development team engage it's players like Pirhana/MWO has. Strong work.

[erics]

Very in favor if going back to 8v8. Ever since the switch to 12, I've always missed the 8s gameplay.

The only downside will be map size, may of the maps are far too big for 8v8s, but that is a fairly minor issue for overall better gameplay (and as an interim, the maps could have their borders shrunk until they could have more work put into them).

[Dantiger]

for everyone saying the maps are too big, you can't forget that in most maps engagements tend to happen the exactly same way on the exactly same choke points. it was actually the same back in the day with 8v8 in smaller maps. the problem is that when the battle width is as big as the map, there is no space to maneuver, everyone is forced to engage on the same choke points. with bigger maps with less players, its more likely that you will need to use scouts to find where the enemy is going and you will have the space to flank them or choose where you want to engage them. it only happens when you have a smaller concentration of players on the same map.

in the case of snowballing, it will always happen, there is no way to avoid it here. the problem is that in 12v12 your mistakes are punished hard, because where you go there will always be 3 or 4 mechs ready to shoot at you with all their firepower. but with 8v8 there will be less outnumbered engagements, it will be easier to see mechs fighting 2v2 or even 1v1. the bad players will still die, but they will have the chance of having a better impact. better players will also be able to carry way more, but every mistake will be punished harder if the best player gets taken down and can't help the team. in the end everything will balance. and I and everyone else that played in the close beta can confirm that the same results we see today, we also could see back them, the difference is that now you don't feel like you helped at all, this feeling is probably much worse for inexperienced players.

[Phuri]

8v8 as long as the largest the drop can be is only a lance and not a full 8 man group.

[SFC174]

Hell no.

Until you fix player ranking and matchmaking (I could really care less about match time - I'm talking about how everyone is weighted the same because everyone bubbles up to Tier 1), 8v8 is a absolute non-starter.

An elite player now can seriously carry a 12v12 match with 5-6 kills. But he can be beaten. Someone like Hammer Coleman, prtnspz or Nova will be almost unbeatable in SoloQ in 8v8. I mean literally, if one of those guys is on the other team, particularly in a meta assault, and not balanced by a similar quality player on your team, just disconnect.

I would consider 8v8 with current matchmaker in SoloQ as a relief valve in times of low population only. But if it is the default mode, its the last straw for me. I don't want to be carried, nor do I want to be ROFL stomped by god tier players. I'd actually prefer 16v16, but I know that is never, ever gonna happen.

TL:DR - Fix player ranking and matchmaking before you even think about 8v8.

[Manicus]

Hell no! Big skirmishy action is what makes QP fun. And being QP there will be the odd afk/disconnect. You feel it much less in a 12v12 than an 8v8.

Remember the old days when we only had 4v4? If one person disconnected you might as well pack up and go home because 25% of your force was gone.

Is this a veiled attempt to get more people to play faction? Don’t do it. I play both QP and Faction, but don’t ruin the QP side of it.

[Wintersdark]

Back when 12v12 was first added, I was firmly in favour of it.

I was wrong. It didn't even take long to realise how wrong I was - the game changed very dramatically very quickly.

It is true that in 12v12, each player matters less. This does mean that having a spud on your team is less of a problem in 12v12. A disconnect? Also less of a problem (but still one severe enough that you only have a chance if you'd have steamrolled them otherwise).

It is also true that 12v12 feels more epic. Big battles are cool.

But there are many downsides to 12v12 as compared to 8v8:

1) A guy above mention focus fire being worse in 8v8. That has definitely not been my experience. I understand how you can reason that, but in practice I've found (over thousands of matches in 8v8, and thousands more in 12v12) that most quickplay matches (particularly "midrange" skill matches) tend to be peek and poke games. Peeking in 8v8 is MUCH less dangerous, as you risk eating fewer simultaneous alphas.
2) Mech staying power. In 8v8, in any engagement the number of mechs that can be shooting at you is simply less. You don't get bonus armor in 12v12, so this punishes mistakes harder. Get out of position in 8v8, and you're more likely to survive that mistake because fewer opposing mechs can focus you.
3) The matchmaker: whatever you want to say about PGI et all, the reality is that the matchmaker struggles at the best of times. 8v8 means 12/3rds of the people required per match, which makes it easier to build GOOD matches. Getting mismatched per 12 man team? In 8v8, that would be 0 "out of rank" players in your team. 8v8 allows for substantially improved matchmaking.
4) In 12v12 YOU matter less. Admittedly, this goes both ways(your teammates individually matter more too), but in 12v12 you can have a phenomenal game and still lose horribly. That happens way less in 8v8: if you're cleaning house, you're very likely also winning. I *want* my contribution to matter more.
5) 12v12 increases the value of lasers. You need more ammo, which makes ballistics and missile weapons "cost" more.
6) 12v12 makes maneuvering more difficult, as fields of fire (and vision) overlap more.

All in all, I miss 8v8. I've not been playing for a while now, and the state of QP has a large role in that. I'd certainly play more going back to 8v8.

Most importantly, I feel it'd help differentiate the game modes more. You'd have Faction play for epic 12v12 respawn battles, you'd have quickplay for smaller 8v8 battles, Scouting as an option for even smaller battles too, and of course Solaris for dueling. So, for me personally, smaller battles where I matter more, but still very "large battle" feeling, with better matchmaking, and longer TTK (Which INCREASES the impact of individual player skill)... Yes please.

And unlike my pro 12v12 days all those years ago, this time I've directly experienced both, and am not just guessing what it'd be like.

That's my two bits.

[K N I G H T]

solo quick play I like the 8v8 idea, group quick play drop should still be 12v12

[Odith00]

Would it be impossible to be able to que for both?

[SFC174]

I would just like to add that I am almost exclusively (95%) SoloQ. I occasionally drop group, but that's it. I don't want to play faction, I don't care for scouting. If SoloQ goes 8v8, it pretty much ruins the whole game experience for me. You FP guys know what that feels like, right?

[process]

I'd like to see both 8v8 and 12v12, with 8v8 being used as a relief valve during matchmaking. It could also just randomly happen 50% of the time to give us some variety.

[Manicus]

Brain Cancer, on 06 June 2018 - 04:20 PM, said:

Shockingly, beta players had lots and lots of fun playing 8v8 before the change. Indeed, if they hadn't you would never have seen 12v12, FP, Solaris, etc. because if they hadn't, the game would have never gotten past beta due to lack of fun-interest.

I am one of those beta players. And while I had fun, I am having MORE fun in QP with 12v12. It’s easier to ask friends to play when they don’t feel as pressured. Or would you prefer to make the game less newbie friendly, lose playerbase, and have the game die?

[Geg]

Korz, on 06 June 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

Instead of 8 v 8 How about going with 10 v 12 for clan v inner sphere and 10 v 10 for clan and 12 v 12 for house v house. Then you can start balancing things around the right numbers of mechs on the field per side instead of balancing with quirks and nerf clan and guass and etc... I understand this is real time vs turn based but you do have plenty of things in canon to balance with then just hey this is easy for us. Stop taking the easy road and get back to the heart and soul of Battle Tech. BT's release should have shown you and your recent announcement of stock mechs should be proof that you know that the heart and soul is what makes this a great game. Stop killing the soul.

I would like this, but I can see why it will never happen.

[SHD2]

i think 12 vs 12 is better, way better.
- it allow more strategy
- we sometimes drop 12 man, so 8 mean we need to split more often


the only reason why 8 vs 8 would be better is if the player pool is not large enough. but only the dev know that....