831 replies to this topic

[Agent of Change]

Koniving, on 07 June 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

I know you're not advocating that group queue goes to 8 vs 8, the question is rhetorical / directed at PGI.

Not changing the group queue version would also allow players to have a 12 vs 12 with whatever they want.. Its a nice middle ground for those that want 12 vs 12 quickplay, as it would be 12 vs 12 quickplay with groups.

------------
PGI did the 3/3/3/3 thing. Few liked it and they did away with it. It was also pretty much untennable. Sure it'll be easier to do in an 8 player group, but.. eh. The game's fun dropped significantly if I could look at my team and know what the other team has.

It also ruined the potential of faction play as it became designed with that in mind, except it didn't work and they dropped it but faction play never got...fixed...
(That post was made with everything from the CW reveal in mind... and then it was nothing like it.)

That’s the underlying problem with the smaller teams you can’t effectively create reasonable team balance in terms of weight/class without creating a bottle neck issue at the MM level which is why 12v2 works better for MWO. You can have looser requirements and still get better balance on average than in 8v8

Koniving, on 07 June 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

But in truth, compare the amount of fun that long time players have now... as opposed to back then. Those of us still around who made youtube videos, you can hear all the fun being had even on the wrong of a completely stacked team, especially if we prevailed over said stacked team. Compare it to now... When the teams are "even" but the min/maxing is not even... one team is just completely slaughtered with no chance of turning it around, especially when the assaults drop in 2 hit kills, the mediums drop in one hit kills and the lights just flop.

The thing is my experience is the inverse. I flat out quit the game back the last time they had 8v8. My entire time since coming back has been in 12v12 and I am having an immense amount of fun. In fact a large chunk of my unit has returned and the feelings are pretty similar. MWO has a lot of issues but is actually enjoyable to me right now more so by an order of magnitude than it was when I took a hiatus.

Koniving, on 07 June 2018 - 06:32 AM, said:

*snip*

If 8 vs 8 and 12 vs 12 wasn't split, though, you sign up for one and you get both depending on what fills up sooner... then it wouldn't be split.

The problem is the limitations on the other end with the game code.

I see that, and it’s a cool idea. I could get behind it if they addressed the inherent issue with people who drop with 9,10,11, or 12 players getting lost in mm limbo.

[JainusVt]

I feel like it should stay the same, but if there are about 64 players in the queue waiting for a match, then the MM should start looking to pair players in 8v8 matches rather than 12v12.

I'd also like to point out that if it is reduced to 8v8, new players can't get the "Philanthropist" achievement since there's no way to get 12 assists with 8 players

Edited by AlphaWolfAlrex, 07 June 2018 - 07:21 AM.

[Karamarka]

I am 100% for 8v8.

Less zerg, more individuality and responsibility, Mechs matter more. Then there is the plethora of technical advantages.

Edited by Karamarka, 07 June 2018 - 07:53 AM.

[SilentScreamer]

Paul Inouye, on 01 June 2018 - 01:22 PM, said:

From a logistics/match making perspective, 8v8 has numerous advantages including faster team creation for both solo and group play in the match maker, faster connection times (less ‘Mechs being loaded), improved framerate, improved memory usage and less taxing on your local CPU.

From a player organization perspective, 8v8 means less management headaches getting 8 players together rather than 12, deck building would have a much higher impact in terms of what ‘Mechs are fielded and how they’re played. The ability to be carried through to victory is less likely due to the fact that in an 8v8 scenario, every ‘Mech matters more.

As far as game performance. PGI made a choice to switch years ago from 8v8 to 12v12 knowing it would negatively impact client performance. Have other options for better game performance been explored, or is 8v8 the quick and easy way which will ultimately lead to more problems down the road because the real server/map/client issues were ignored? The MWO HUD was the bane of framerates for years. I use a better PC now, but I still keep Armor Glow and Cockpit Glass Off. Spiraling missile trails and real fire for flamers are gone a long time now. Cool features, but can you still play effectively if you drop 20 FPS during a match?

I could buy into the faster queue time, but compared to Beta or the first year after release queue times are faster now than back then. I only play Solo/PUG, so group queue players likely have a different experience.

What would encourage me more would be match quality, but I do not see a chance for improvement by switching to 8v8. If 25% of players waiting for a match are disco/AFK/bad_build; Yes, you will have 2 on your team of 8 instead of 3 on your team of 12, but that is still 25% either way. Same goes for top players per side; the probability of the MM filling a match with a good/bad player remains the same depending on the total player pool; not 8v8 or 12v12.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 07 June 2018 - 08:07 AM.

[N Y G E N]

Yes, cause the chance is higher you (as a premade of 8) match another 8m premade. And the times where there was this full premade vs full premade Q was by far the very best in MWO.
Actually bring this back as well if you go 8vs8.

[Q]

P, on 07 June 2018 - 05:58 AM, said:

i like dynamic gameplays

so 8v8, 12 v 12, 16v 16, 20 v 20 and 24 v 24 into the mix, just for the kicks of it

Single letters unite!

But I can't get behind this. More buckets = moar bad.

[SilentScreamer]

Nygen, on 07 June 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

Yes, cause the chance is higher you (as a premade of 8) match another 8m premade. And the times where there was this full premade vs full premade Q was by far the very best in MWO.
Actually bring this back as well if you go 8vs8.

Isn't that exactly what the comp queue and championships are for?

Quickplay Group queue has both competitive teams and casual teams. Casual teams will likely drop from Quickplay if they get hammered by comp level 8-man. The matchmaker needs those players for fast match times. If you want Quality over Speed for your match, go Comp or arrange a private lobby match.

Edited by SilentScreamer, 07 June 2018 - 08:14 AM.

[Kray76]

WTF.

One step ahead and two steps back?
Let a few hundred freaks in the forum decide how the other player have to play?

We need more new players, more invest in the future, not into the dying dinosaurs.
No one like Faction play. Otherwise it would be no problem to find a match.
No one like Solaris. Same to this. You can play only during the "peak" hours.
Who likes this competitive sh*t? a few players.
Same for Escort or Incursus. No one chose this, except you have only the selection possibility betwen the two game modes. lol

Thats ok so. The game modes are already implemented. It was a waste of time and resources, but who cares. A few players are happy about it, but lack of players, the want to force the others to play this too. Thats the wrong way. Why the fugg should people be forced to play a mode, if they dont want it?

12v12 with 3 Lances are good for the current maps. You have a good mix of mechs and player skills.
In contrast to 8v8, you lose, if one of the side has 2-3 players in group who playin better than the average. Thats tthe end of the whole game fun.
I dont like it, and if thats your way to kill this game, youre on the fastest lane.

[Felbombling]

I think 12 man play stays for Group Play matches and/or the larger maps in Quick Play such as Polar Highlands. Eight vs. Eight for Quick Play on the smaller maps. It would add some variety.

[Hydrothermia]

This falls to a MAYBE for me. I like the idea of going back to 8v8, but that requires some changes in map sizes. Just the thought of Polar Highlands Conquest at its current size in an 8v8 could be a nightmare(Works fine in MRBC depending on the match drop). I think solo queue could greatly benefit in 8v8s, group queue not so much.

There are also a number of groups in group queue that end up with more than 8 people wanting to play at the same time. That happens a lot with the people I play with. Reducing that would make larger groups having to split up to accommodate to the new size. Not everyone wants to play in Faction play or is in the same faction(IS vs Clan) to have 8+ man group to play together.

[Dantiger]

guys... how about instead of splitting QP into more queues, they make FP matches more similar to QP (before the last step of the invasion, that is destroying the base)? using QP maps and all. because now, instead of having more sub queues, you just reworked a game mode that is already there to fill the niche left by the old 12v12 QP.

I sai its fair to try it in a PTS, just change the missions you will drop on FP, change QP to 8v8, and keep everything else as it is. just then ask people opinions. because what I've been seeing is that most people that want the 8v8 are the ones that experienced it back in the day or want to see a change in the game, and the people that DON'T want 8v8 are people that are afraid of it being boring. but no one really have any idea of how it will play out with the game we have now, everyone is just speculating. putting it on a PTS before seeing what people want will solve that problem.

Edited by Dantiger, 07 June 2018 - 08:58 AM.

[SFC174]

Dantiger, on 07 June 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

guys... how about instead of splitting QP into more queues, they don't make FP matches more similar to QP before invasion ? using QP maps and all. because now instead of having more sub queues you just reworked a game more that is already there to fill the niche left by the new 8v8 QP.

I said its fair to try it in a PTS, just change the missions you will drop on FP, change QP to 8v8, and keep everything else as it is. just then ask people opinions. because what I've been seeing is that most people that want the 8v8 are the ones that experienced it back in the day or want to see a change in the game, and the people that DON'T want 8v8 are people that are afraid of it being boring. but no one really have any idea of how it will play out with the game we have now, everyone is just speculating. putting it on a PTS before seeing what people want will solve that problem.

Valid point, but a PTS won't change my no vote. The matchmaker issues we have right now (everyone in Tier 1, huge skill mismatches between teams) by definition will become exaggerated with 8v8 (impact of one really good or really bad player becomes larger). Until the MM and PSR are fixed, I can never be in favor of 8v8.

[Eatit]

I'm appalled at the language many of these posts use to describe new players e.g. "Spuds". This game has a learning curve that is challenging to new players. We were all "Spuds" when we started out.

I hear a lot of crap about the game driving away new players. I think it may just be the community that drives away the new players. The language used in-game during matches, the salt thrown at obviously new players is terrible.

I played when it was 8v8 and stomps were more common then. 12v12 allows new players more freedom to screw up without severely impacting the team. in 8v8 a screw up from one player will have more impact and many of you will throw more salt discouraging new people from continuing to play.

Maybe we can all adjust the way we treat new players? Maybe we can try to educate them and not expect them to be good day one? Maybe we should try to encourage rather than call them names.

PGI you should be ashamed of yourselves to allow posts with obviously negative terms used to describe new players. Do you hate your new players? If not why do you allow them to be treated like you do? Zero Tolerance for player bashing should be the proper response.

[Agent of Change]

SFC174, on 07 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Valid point, but a PTS won't change my no vote. The matchmaker issues we have right now (everyone in Tier 1, huge skill mismatches between teams) by definition will become exaggerated with 8v8 (impact of one really good or really bad player becomes larger). Until the MM and PSR are fixed, I can never be in favor of 8v8.

I agree

In a vacuum this feels a bit like putting up wallpaper to cover up and hide the rot in the supports. I would be very interested to learn *EXACTLY* why this question is being asked now, what the underlying issue is and who exactly was asking for it before the poll went up?

The fact there is even a poll makes me wonder if there really was much clamoring for this change, and if it really is just and a attempt to play 3 card monty with design flaws they shoudl at least be straight forward about that.

Edited by Agent of Change, 07 June 2018 - 09:11 AM.

[Hunter Watzas]

IMHO why don't we look at changing FW to 8v8 instead of 12v12 and leave QP the same. This helps the FW problems of running into 12 man with three or 4 small units, makes the Que faster and might shake up some strategies a little bit more. In addition it encourages smaller units to participate more and larger units can get more drops into the game kicking off more matches.

I think a differentiation needs to occur between the FW and QP ques to encourage groups to play one over the other. (For instance limiting QP teams to 6 players)

[Dogstar]

XDevilsChariotX, on 06 June 2018 - 04:03 PM, said:

If you wanna mess with a 8v8. Do it in group drops if anything. I say leave QP alone. It's fine the way it is in my opinion and development time can be better spent elsewhere. I voted no. If this does happen. Maybe make it an option?

I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I think solo QP queue would definitely benefit from 8v8 but team QP should probably remain 12v12 so that the bigger 'guilds' can practice their FP in it.

Edited by Dogstar, 07 June 2018 - 09:16 AM.

[Orbit Rain]

I'm in favor of it, basically because it means my contribution to a win has a greater effect. My contribution to the outcome of the match matters more, also killing the entire opposing team will be more possible. ; ) As it is now, the guy that can carry when his team sucks ....., will have a better chance when it is eight to go through, rather than twelve.ll...

edit...just want to add, getting eight people would be way WAY easier to work into a competitive scene than twelve, which would translate to more participation, which leads to more people playing mechs, making cbills, and maaking money for PGI.

Edited by Orbit Rain, 07 June 2018 - 10:49 AM.

[Rushin Roulette]

How about the option of changing Solo play to 8v8 and leaving the other modes as they are (group play as 12v12 and CW as 12v12)?
At the posters saying that the games wont work because the maps are too big for 8v8... you do know that this change should not impact on the speed of the mechs dont you? The assaults will not magically become slower just because there are a total of 8 mechs less on the field... they will take exactly the same time to run from their spawn points to the middle of the map (Domination for example).

Just because the teams have 4 players less on each side does not mean that the kill time should change much either, as the min-max builds will still deal a crap ton of damage. If you round the corner against 2 Annihalators looking your way you die maybe 0,1 seconds slower than if you round the corner to face 4 of them. The 200 points of damage needed to kill most mechs is just spread between 2 mechs dealing 100 damage each instead of 4 mechs dealing 50 damage each and wasting 50 damage on a mech corpse or the ground behind it after the kill.

[Nameless King]

Dogstar, on 07 June 2018 - 09:15 AM, said:

I'm of the exact opposite opinion. I think solo QP queue would definitely benefit from 8v8 but team QP should probably remain 12v12 so that the bigger 'guilds' can practice their FP in it.

QP is not training grounds for FP, want to trian go play FP.

[Kray76]

Why would you push the players to FP? You have to realize, that the most people, dont want to play faction play.
They want an easy mixed Faction gammode with many players on the same map. Stop living in the past or trying to hold it at all costs.

There is nothing to try or experimenting around, to see what people like. If they dont like 8v8, they dont wait for fix back. They deleting mwo and gone. I am happy about it, that i can play with a short queue time, i dont like the idea of destroying what we have, because of a few freaks who dont willing to accept that the past is over. We have actually a few more players online, so why lose them?
even i will play something else, like war thunder, dreadnought or whatever, before i play 8v8 or lesser. I am here for Group play, MMO, not for mini gladiator fights. And i never will play faction or solaris again, because i dont like these modes. And i am not alone.