190 replies to this topic

[Brain Cancer]

Cloves, on 10 June 2018 - 05:36 PM, said:

So 5 card Charlie is two and ace of spades is 1? What is Death Star?

No further effect on tiering, but it'd also mean every Death Star in the game would be stuck in at T1.

RickySpanish, on 10 June 2018 - 06:16 PM, said:

Perhaps you're making a point, but obviously your idea would not work better, as anyone that suddenly makes a 3/5 kill game will leep into the middle tier and stay there, while anyone in T1 will have gotten lucky. The truth is that, surprisingly, it's hard to make a decent match maker with the number of variables at play in MWO. I have yet to see a single suggestion for an improvement to the MM on this forum that hasn't had some obvious flaw in it willfully ignored by whomever got triggered enough to come here to have an attention seeking cry for the evening.

No, I honestly believe it'd sort players better than the current matchmaker, which puts all players over a certain match score on an inevitable drift upwards towards T1, where they sit and proceed to get used for target practice, forever. That's how utterly useless the current PSR/Tier system is as a sorting mechanism.

But you'd be astonished. Most players never even get a Johnny Five. I haven't had an 8-kill game since beta (given, I killed the entire enemy team, but...). That'd put most players at....T3 or lower and precious few in T1. Given how I see game after game with a few players getting 3 or more kills (T3) and rarely more than one getting 5 (T2) and those tending to be the same names over and over...yes, it'd actually sort players in a crude but more effective fashion.

Cloves, on 10 June 2018 - 06:49 PM, said:

Thing is you can consistently 5 card charlie in high tier matches currently(at least once a season), I can only imagine it's easier in lower tier matches. Would that make anyone who could do it once stuck in tier 2 forever? Same idea (much harder) with ace of spades, do it once, tier one permanently? We just need to fix the upward trend in PSR. Set it to -250 matchscore to start so folks can actually go down.

Again, you're thinking that's the norm even in low skill matches. From watching people grind alts, it seems to me the only people doing that are the same people who don't belong in Newbie Town to begin with. If they end up in T2? OK. If you seal club eight people, welcome to the big boy's club immediately.

If that seems too much, have each achievement reset a year after the last time it happened and bump the pilot down a tier. Or even six months if you're really worried. It'll make T1 membership either transitory or extremely tough for most of the game.

[Cloves]

Honestly, are we looking to sort folks that dramatically? I thought the plan was to have 20% of the active population in every tier.

-edit otherwise certain tiers will break the matchmaker and open the gates every time. Like if there are only 1000 tier 1 players, they would wait a minute, then be placed in a 2-3 match.

-edit 2 I have no problem in ejecting folks out of tier 5 matches if they don't belong there immediately and flagging the account. You get an ace of spades in tier 5, you get placed in tier 1, and then get to tank downward.

-edit 3 as you might of guessed, I cap out at 7 kills (once), I don't have ace of spades.

Edited by Cloves, 11 June 2018 - 02:22 PM.

[Anastasius Foht]

Cloves, on 11 June 2018 - 03:11 AM, said:

Light pilots are already undervalued by the PSR system. That’s the reason so many are so good- you have to be in order to get any results in them. This is just another reason why they are 10% of the drop pop. PGI will have to do another bandaid matchscore boost like they currently do for lights. Look again at your matchscore and earnings in a light, how much comes from nonsense like protected, flanking, hit and run, in formation, and other PGI devices to make up for them not doing the same damage?

In my personal opinion, lights should get +25% matchscore bonus, especially after PGI removed main damage income source from them - shoot off torso from behind now can get you only like 8 armor and ~40 structure so ~50 dmg for destroying half of enemy fresh average mech. I have game today where i deal 460 damage and 10 components destroyed, get some pathetic (compared to pre-patch) score/money for it. Also this bonus make good lights arrival to T1 in no time so forums cry less about "nerf needed Lights OP" when in reality its their pilots OP, also bonus fixed current problem with lights number in general.

[Zibmo]

As of tonight, this game has just joined the "used to be fun to play" pile. Not because I think the game play is bad. I simply can't take another game with people whose collective IQ is lower than the tonnage they play.

I have never seen so much incredibly stupid play in any game I've ever played. People seem to be proud to do the most imbecilic things they can think of.

Cya

[Xmith]

late

[GuardDogg]

Most of the time is not the players or your team mates. I have noticed one side will not take damage from my team mates and the apposing team has weaker weapons, new tier 5 players and will kick butt. You have to look at the ping numbers and you will see the server will favor one side over the other. I always see this "You guys suck", and then a second later that person disconnects. I think to go cry to mommy. But it is never the guy writing/posting "You guys suck" or what ever, that could also be a problem.

[Dogstar]

Zibmo, on 11 June 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

As of tonight, this game has just joined the "used to be fun to play" pile. Not because I think the game play is bad. I simply can't take another game with people whose collective IQ is lower than the tonnage they play.

I have never seen so much incredibly stupid play in any game I've ever played. People seem to be proud to do the most imbecilic things they can think of.

Cya

Interestingly I tried out World of Tanks again last night and **** me that was the most **** awful gameplay I have ever played!

First two matches consisted of everyone hiding in bushes for ten minutes while the one or two adventurous people got nuked.

Thank heavens MWO doesn't play like WoT!

[KodiakGW]

Dogstar, on 12 June 2018 - 03:42 AM, said:

First two matches consisted of everyone hiding in bushes for ten minutes while the one or two adventurous people got nuked.

Thank heavens MWO doesn't play like WoT

Actually, that sounds exactly like my last outing on Polar Highlands. Granted, no bushes...but plenty of hiding. Not sure if you were going for sarcasm there.

But, you are also correct. I haven’t played many WoT games, but I know I’ve never seen one devolve into NASCAR quickly...actually, not at all.

[Dogstar]

KodiakGW, on 12 June 2018 - 06:00 AM, said:

Actually, that sounds exactly like my last outing on Polar Highlands. Granted, no bushes...but plenty of hiding. Not sure if you were going for sarcasm there.

But, you are also correct. I haven’t played many WoT games, but I know I’ve never seen one devolve into NASCAR quickly...actually, not at all.

Well the maps for WoT are designed to strongly enforce a head to head confrontation, the speed of most tanks over the available space doesn't really allow for nascar situations, plus the addition of TDs and artillery that prefer static positions all makes for a completely different gameplay.

Nevertheless a long time ago I amused my self by seeing how many 'laps' of the map I could do in a T2 light tank - it really helped break up the static positioning

If you like tanks I'd go for Armoured Warfare's PVE mode - it's a lot of fun

Edited by Dogstar, 12 June 2018 - 07:42 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Anastasius Foht, on 11 June 2018 - 04:06 PM, said:

In my personal opinion, lights should get +25% matchscore bonus, especially after PGI removed main damage income source from them - shoot off torso from behind now can get you only like 8 armor and ~40 structure so ~50 dmg for destroying half of enemy fresh average mech. I have game today where i deal 460 damage and 10 components destroyed, get some pathetic (compared to pre-patch) score/money for it. Also this bonus make good lights arrival to T1 in no time so forums cry less about "nerf needed Lights OP" when in reality its their pilots OP, also bonus fixed current problem with lights number in general.

...or we could buff lights somewhat so they suck less

[Nightbird]

I lost two games in a row yesterday, it hasn't happened for weeks and was sooo frustrating. I totally sympathize with the OP. The horrible teams must go!

[RickySpanish]

Brain Cancer, on 11 June 2018 - 02:03 PM, said:

No further effect on tiering, but it'd also mean every Death Star in the game would be stuck in at T1.


No, I honestly believe it'd sort players better than the current matchmaker, which puts all players over a certain match score on an inevitable drift upwards towards T1, where they sit and proceed to get used for target practice, forever. That's how utterly useless the current PSR/Tier system is as a sorting mechanism.

But you'd be astonished. Most players never even get a Johnny Five. I haven't had an 8-kill game since beta (given, I killed the entire enemy team, but...). That'd put most players at....T3 or lower and precious few in T1. Given how I see game after game with a few players getting 3 or more kills (T3) and rarely more than one getting 5 (T2) and those tending to be the same names over and over...yes, it'd actually sort players in a crude but more effective fashion.



Again, you're thinking that's the norm even in low skill matches. From watching people grind alts, it seems to me the only people doing that are the same people who don't belong in Newbie Town to begin with. If they end up in T2? OK. If you seal club eight people, welcome to the big boy's club immediately.

If that seems too much, have each achievement reset a year after the last time it happened and bump the pilot down a tier. Or even six months if you're really worried. It'll make T1 membership either transitory or extremely tough for most of the game.

I managed an 8 kill just before achievements came out in a shadowhawk, I have the screenshot in lieu of the title in case the door man asks for proof. I got a 7 kill a few nigts ago in an awesome. I dunno man, maybe the match maker needs to punish losses harder, but there's so much luck and fortunate circumstance involved with kill streaks that I feel it would be quite unreliable. I wonder what the Steam stats are for those achievements? I'd imagine Ace of Spades is 1% and Death Star would round down to 0.

[Edit]

It's 1.9% for Ace of Spades, 9.8% for Johnny Five, and Deathstar is not listed. Also lol at that stupid Solaris achievement, and looks like bolt ons are a truly terrible revenue generator.

Edited by RickySpanish, 12 June 2018 - 09:13 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Thanos Kerensky, on 04 June 2018 - 12:50 PM, said:

So, I got a 0-10 streak today (10 losses in 10 matches) doing solo queue for Quick Play matches. The teams were just...incomprehensibly bad, and maybe I was too, but seriously...10/10 losses? And it's been like that since I went back into the game after a long period of absence. I win maybe, AT BEST, about 20% of the matches that I play. I literally believe that in 1 month I will be Tier 5 from 3, again.

I just want to hear people's experiences on the subject of queuing solo for quick play with random people., because mine are unbelievably bad, to the point where I'm seriously considering of quitting the game altogether. It's one thing to lose even 60% of your games, it's another to have an entire weekend of being facerolled in every game. I don't mind losing but I have much better things to do than lose ALL the time.

I just want to see if indeed there are people out there who have the exact opposite experiences and I would be very interesting in hearing how did they achieve that.

Maybe this is just a rant but today was a seriously f'd up MWO day.

Cheers

Unfortunately PSR's bias towards increasing won't let you drop to Tier 5. It's proven fact. See my stats for reference. See? My stats are terrible, my average W/L < 1, my average MS < 200, but... I'm in Tier 2, lol. I have never been able to drop below 50% Tier 3 - my initial rating, when PSR system was implemented.

[Brain Cancer]

Bush Hopper, on 12 June 2018 - 08:46 AM, said:

...or we could buff lights somewhat so they suck less

I already regularly see lights picking up 5+ kills in matches.

There are weak lights, but lights are clearly not weak. The salt I hear every time a PIR-1 or Urbie cleans house certainly reinforces that point.

[Anastasius Foht]

Brain Cancer, on 12 June 2018 - 11:29 AM, said:

I already regularly see lights picking up 5+ kills in matches.

There are weak lights, but lights are clearly not weak. The salt I hear every time a PIR-1 or Urbie cleans house certainly reinforces that point.

Its cuz you are in tier 1, rest of tiers is pure struggle for lights, if there is no huge team fight (or any chaos, you need chaos in battlefield to sneak and shoot left-right) you physically can't do 400-500 damage in each game to progress, especially if you short range one. I had a game as Locust in Rubelite for example, and by time i go flank and start shoot some mechs backs my team was almost all dead (that took around 75-80 sec), i killed Mad Cat 2 and died while shooting my second target, focused by 6-7 mechs. I even not talk about maps like Polar, when u hide behind enemy team unable to approach with 270m lasors, mark dem targets for LRM's , call that in chat and noone shoot em/ or they shoot and u get millions of spot assist and like 150 points after match. Also there is HUGE difference between MC and C-Bills lights, non-ECM Locust is pure ****, while ECM is a king, same for Piranha, Raven etc.

[Unit 86]

I find it funny how a lot of people complaining about "lousy teams" and "constant losses" are way below average themselves.
No offense to people in this thread who actually are 99 percentile on the leaderboard and complain about MM. They are most entitled to be the ones thinking the MM is wonky

But people like this, for example:

Zibmo, on 11 June 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

I simply can't take another game with people whose collective IQ is lower than the tonnage they play.

It's fun to belittle other people skill and intelligence, especially when you yourself are barely ~70 percentile of the playerbase.

Once again, no offense to the good players who are through with bad matchmaking.
But to the rest - you ever thought that YOU are the problem and maybe you should try a little bit of GITGUD?

Edited by Unit 86, 12 June 2018 - 12:31 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Unit 86, on 12 June 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

you ever thought that YOU are the problem and maybe you should try a little bit of GITGUD?

I tend to agree with this sentiment, although to be fair, the 10-match losing streak described by the op sounds rough.

But I do remember when posts like the op's (and there have always been posts like the op's) were greeted with questions like: "Did you take charge and call the drop?" "Did you take new players under your wing and teach them how its done?" Or I remember when we used to say, "Carry harder," or even more simple still, post that meme of the atlas-as-Sisyphus dragging the team up a very steep slope (I can't find mine or I'd drop it now).

We used to accept that it was a good player's lot to make a winning team out of the solo tub o' scrubs they were saddled with. And if we couldn't, we'd accept that some of the blame for the loss rested with us, regardless of how much damage we did.

We'd chide players for complaining too much about being stuck on bad teams. Now it seems like all anyone does around here is whinge about how they're too good for the teams they drop with.

What happened? Have we (as a community) gone soft?

Edited by Mister Glitchdragon, 12 June 2018 - 01:09 PM.

[Unit 86]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 12 June 2018 - 01:05 PM, said:

I tend to agree with this sentiment, although to be fair, the 10-match losing streak described by the op sounds rough

But the OP, just as well, is 70 percentile of the leaderboard, only BARELY breaking 200 match average. Which by all means, is freakishly bad. It's literally below any standards of "good".
What makes you think that a below average person is entitled to think "the teams are lousy"? What makes you think that it's him who is carrying his matches? Because sure as hell his stats are not of a person who "carries" games.

All I'm seeing here in this thread (with the exception of literally a handful of people which I can tell by name that are >>>decent<<< players) is a bunch of complete sh!tters trying to wear the mantle of an amazing player who loses their games constantly but not because they are 200 av. ms, but because it's "M-MUH MATCHMAKING".

Edited by Unit 86, 12 June 2018 - 01:14 PM.

[Vxheous]

Unit 86, on 12 June 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

But the OP, just as well, is 70 percentile of the leaderboard, only BARELY breaking 200 match average. Which by all means, is freakishly bad. It's literally below any standards of "good".
What makes you think that a below average person is entitled to think "the teams are lousy"? What makes you think that it's him who is carrying his matches? Because sure as hell his stats are not of a person who "carries" games.

All I'm seeing here in this thread (with the exception of literally a handful of people which I can tell by name that are >>>decent<<< players) is a bunch of complete sh!tters trying to wear the mantle of an amazing player who loses their games constantly but not because they are 200 av. ms, but because it's "M-MUH MATCHMAKING".

What's sad is 200 matchscore is like the total average for MWO playerbase. Technically players that have 230 average match score is an "above-average" player. Think about that..

Edited by Vxheous, 12 June 2018 - 01:29 PM.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Unit 86, on 12 June 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

But the OP, just as well, is 70 percentile of the leaderboard, only BARELY breaking 200 match average. Which by all means, is freakishly bad. It's literally below any standards of "good".

I should have made clear when I said "good," I meant the best players on a given solo qp team. In that sense, I'm using good as a relative term. In a company of T5's just starting out at the game or with disabilities or whatever, a 180 avg. match score might put you at the top of the heap. If the op, for example, was the best blue player over the course of the 10 games he lost (which he certainly is implying), than it falls on him to communicate with his teammates in a productive way, organize, and deploy whatever assets they have to the best of their ability.

Everyone knows teamwork is op, and if the op doesn't realize that, then I'd wager their losing streaks are likely to just go on, no matter how "good" (or not) they are.

Unit 86, on 12 June 2018 - 01:13 PM, said:

All I'm seeing here in this thread (with the exception of literally a handful of people which I can tell by name that are >>>decent<<< players) is a bunch of complete sh!tters trying to wear the mantle of an amazing player who loses their games constantly but not because they are 200 av. ms, but because it's "M-MUH MATCHMAKING".

Sure. It's a seductively ego-soothing position to take, isn't it? You see a few posts by some ace players saying MM is nuts right now, and suddenly THAT'S why your stats are in the dumpster. (for the record, my avg hovers around 260, and I don't consider myself one of those ace players, although I feel at least competent, with flashes of carry-hard, drop-callin' goodness).

I guess what I'm saying is that no one gets better at this game by complaining on the forums. Everyone gets frustrated and vents, especially in regard to solo qp, where your teammates can on occasion be a liability. But when people tell you to suck it up, 'git gud,' and do whatever it takes to put blue over the top, it may sound harsh but its the best advice there is.