845 replies to this topic

[Soviet Alex]

So I thought I was stuck mid-tier because most other players were better. Turns out it's because I run a lot of ballistic builds.

Joking aside, I like the minor recoil option for the gauss rifle better than the alternatives. You could even justify it in the game lore as the Clans removing recoil dampers to bring the weapon tonnage down without sacrificing damage (as opposed to the light gauss rifle, which loses damage to save weight but doesn't have recoil).

As for Clan lasers, my preferred option would be to reduce damage per cycle but increase rate of fire to preserve the same total damage across approx. 10 seconds.

[Guile Votoms]

[Redacted]

Edited by draiocht, 18 June 2018 - 02:25 PM.
discussing moderation

[Khobai]

clan gauss should do 12 damage but have better rate of fire and range than IS gauss. thats the best way to balance it being only 12 tons while still keeping it asymmetrically different from IS gauss.

reticle shake wouldnt fix it, just like it doesnt balance the HGR, because you can just fire your lasers before the gauss. and reticle shake is quite frankly not a good mechanic anyway.

id like to see chargeup removed on all gauss rifles too. instead balance gauss rifles with longer cooldowns. since ppcs/gauss are linked now theres no need to worry about gauss/ppc poptarts (especially with the 12 damage clan gauss), so chargeup can be removed.

the way chargeup is used on gauss is very non-inuitive. because sniper weapons like gauss should absolutely be able to snapfire. but also chargeup as a mechanic should only ever be used on weapons with variable levels of charge (like megamans arm cannon). the PPC capacitor would be a perfect example of when to use chargeup. But not on gauss.

Edited by Khobai, 15 June 2018 - 04:10 AM.

[Yondu Udonta]

This entire forum post about balancing obviously did not consider Faction Play, instead only considering YoloQ. It is blatantly obvious that Clans need that extra alpha power over their IS counterparts because IS mechs are more durable than Clan mechs. It is a simple tradeoff, damage for firepower. You take away that firepower, what do Clans have left? Oh wait I forgot PGI didn't consider Faction Play because we can all see from their attitude towards FP: lack of events, lack of new content and the inability to deliver the initial FP product they promised years ago. They probably want FP to just die out, hoping that the highly competitive player base there will move to Solaris to revive that mode. NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

[Grim 13]

Stinger554, on 14 June 2018 - 02:00 PM, said:

Riiiiight then I'm going to call ******** and say it's a bad build. So either post it or your full of ****.

90% of 94 damage to a single component > 45% of 102.2 to a single component.

Just like how LRMs can get you 1K damage but only 250 of that damage was useful and efficient.

I don't think you've noticed, but I don't hold your thoughts and opinions in high regard, so yeah... imma pass on posting it methinks

Have a nice day!

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Stinger554, on 13 June 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

Those IS mechs that can do that either aren't sustainable, not pinpoint, slow as ****, or some mixture of the three. The costs required to get to that alpha are significantly different favoring Clans.

Slow as f*** is inconsequential. I have a damn Fafnir that can alpha out 102 damage front loaded and two shot an Atlases side torso off.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Chris Lowrey, you are posing an ultimatum with respect to your options with clan lasers. Essentially you are suggesting that mechs mounting medium and small clan lasers must either pick 30 damage alpha caps or 30 damage alpha caps regardless of whether that be by way of weapon damage nerfs or by way of ghost heat adjustments.

Please don't take the nerf bat to all clan laser play just because cMeds + cLarges make for problematic alpha strikes.
There is a solution you have not considered that will bring clan alphas more in line with IS alphas without relegating clan lasers to the garbage can, or removing alpha strikes as a clan playstyle, especially on lighter chassis.

Simply couple clan mediums and larges into the same ghost heat group. Raise cERLL and cLPL ghost heat capacity to 3. If your goal here is simply to remove 94 damage clan alphas, this should solve the problem for you. I would plead with you, please do not try changing clan weapons across the board in order to radically redefine clan vs IS balance. The game is fun. We're just trying to quash an outlier yes? Can we keep things simple to that end?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 June 2018 - 06:46 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Aleski, on 15 June 2018 - 12:52 AM, said:

Stop your trolling. Have you ever try those builds ? MRM are far worse than a twin gauss + lazor alpha. They spread damage everywhere. With gauss and lazor and good aim, you can one shot some locust or commandos easily. With MRM, it's not the same story !

If you want to troll, learn to git gud at this.

MRMs are an extremely potent weapon even next to gauss vom. They do different things sure, but I don't think you can argue that MRMs aren't one of the best playstyles in the game right now.

[MattEdge]

Just in case y'all are still looking at all the feedback in this thread...

1. I don't think the clan gauss rifle needs to be touched.

2. Clan lasers could probably use a bit of a nerf, I would lean toward option 1 rather than option 2.

3. ALTERNATE IDEA: Instead of nerfing the lasers (or possibly in conjunction with a small tweak), restore mobility to mechs by syncing the engine with mobility again. This helps in two ways; It allows mechs to defensively twist off high alpha lasers better and it gives people an actual reason to run bigger engines which by default requires sacrifices to weapons/heatsinks. The desync encourages massive alpha weapons platforms because there is no reason to run a larger engine instead. With engine size tied to mobility at least there's a tradeoff: "take the biggest engine and put weapons in after OR hurt my mobility and run more guns". With the desync, there's only one obvious choice: "cram as many weapons as possible and throw an engine in as an afterthought". (Edit: Obviously some clans/engine are locked, but read the first part because the defensive side is important in my view, along with small tweaks)

Edited by MattEdge, 15 June 2018 - 07:10 AM.

[PraetorGix]

I already posted yesterday but I've been thinking about this and I think there could be an easier way to address this: don't touch the weapons. Concentrate on TTK via different means. You started by giving mechs twice the HP of TT mechs. Change that, give them triple HP. Also, give us back the agility we used to have, speed tweak to 10% again and more torso twisting capability. Lastly, reduce the heat cap by 33%, make it 20, but turn double heat sink into true doubles.
Nobody wants to feel like they're sitting in a tin can, this is a game about giant powerful robots, if our weapons cannot do damage and are constantly nerfed that illusion goes away. Let us feel powerful by having good weapons but also amazing armor, that is friendly for beginners and challenging for veterans due to increased survivability.
And lastly, if you insist on meddling with weapons then do not touch damage. Concentrate on penalties when boating, or desynchronization of alphas, but leave each weapon untouched if fired individually or in pairs.

[Nightbird]

Giving everyone 50% hp buffs is the same as giving every weapon 33% damage nerfs.

[wolvhound]

You could also allow IS mechs to take 1 or 2 clan tech weapons and vice versa. Big fan of this one as they salvaged anything they could from the battlefield already so why not that really strong laser? And the clan technicians going hey that's a nice rac2 ,why not try it?

Or have clans play in stars, so 2 stars to 3 lances and just put all the clan stuff back to where it was, the extra 2 IS mechs making up the difference in tech.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

Eisenhorne, on 14 June 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

because then you couldn't use MRMs or many other missile weapons.

I'm talking about locking out individual weapons when they reach a threshold, so you wouldn't be able to add the 2nd HLL to make a 94 alpha etc. specific to lasers, doesn't touch any other weapon system.

[Y E O N N E]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 June 2018 - 05:55 AM, said:

Slow as f*** is inconsequential. I have a damn Fafnir that can alpha out 102 damage front loaded and two shot an Atlases side torso off.

Post it.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightbird, on 15 June 2018 - 07:45 AM, said:

Giving everyone 50% hp buffs is the same as giving every weapon 33% damage nerfs.

Except A) it feels like a buff rather than a nerf and makes people happier B ) it fits more with lore from a flavor perspective since we've already parted with canon armor values C) I don't think anybody has been suggesting an even, across the board weapon damage nerf; maybe it would shape out quite nice.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 June 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 June 2018 - 08:56 AM, said:

Post it.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't believe what I'm saying, and not assume that your going winge from an armchair about how "the build is bad" despite the fact that I've only given you what you asked for.

Please don't prove me a fool.

Here it is: https://mwo.smurfy-n...d03b28676ca82f6

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 June 2018 - 09:30 AM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I can understand that 96 damage clan alphas are a playstyle people don't think is fun to play against. What I can't understand is that people still think clans are OP

[Jay Leon Hart]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 June 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

I can understand that 96 damage clan alphas are a playstyle people don't think is fun to play against. What I can't understand is that people still think clans are OP

It's mostly equipment (not weapons) at this point that's just flat out better for no good reason. No, lore is not a *good* reason.

I *almost* guessed that FNR build. Mine's a little slower and favours HGauss ammo over SRM, though yours keep it at ~10 total volleys. Still not enough ammo for my tastes though

[Y E O N N E]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 15 June 2018 - 09:30 AM, said:

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you just don't believe what I'm saying, and not assume that your going winge from an armchair about how "the build is bad" despite the fact that I've only given you what you asked for.

Please don't prove me a fool.

Here it is: https://mwo.smurfy-n...d03b28676ca82f6

I know the IS can do 102 and bigger. The questions I have are "at what range" and "is it front-loaded" because a great many in here are comparing builds doing that damage at ~300 meters, sometimes hard-capped, to one that can do similar at ~450 meters, soft capped, and they are mis-using the terms "front-loaded" and "pin-point" if they are remember to apply a qualitative assessment to the alpha at all.

What I see here is potentially good for Solaris, extremely niche for Faction Play (Siege Mode, Defense), and probably very hard to use well in Quick Play. Why? Because it has very little ammo, it's only getting its full punch at very close-range, and it has to be slower than a DWF to even fit it, making getting into that close range more dependent on the enemy than you. You have to blunder into it, or play a game mode where you are forced to blunder into it; it's just not flexible enough in the range department.

I'm not here to really say "Clans OP!" or "IS OP!" All I'm here to say is that these MRM or super close-quarter builds people are posting....are distractions. They are not effective in the same ways, against the same things, and the conditions in which they are good are all dramatically different and narrower than the conditions under which a Gauss-vomit build is good, which is why Gauss-vomit FNR/ANH/MCII/BAS builds are dominating the Assault bracket. Them, along with the the heavy ballistic versions of the same 'Mechs sans BAS.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 June 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

I know the IS can do 102 and bigger. The questions I have are "at what range" and "is it front-loaded" because a great many in here are comparing builds doing that damage at ~300 meters, sometimes hard-capped, to one that can do similar at ~450 meters, soft capped, and they are mis-using the terms "front-loaded" and "pin-point" if they are remember to apply a qualitative assessment to the alpha at all.

What I see here is potentially good for Solaris, extremely niche for Faction Play (Siege Mode, Defense), and probably very hard to use well in Quick Play. Why? Because it has very little ammo, it's only getting its full punch at very close-range, and it has to be slower than a DWF to even fit it, making getting into that close range more dependent on the enemy than you. You have to blunder into it, or play a game mode where you are forced to blunder into it; it's just not flexible enough in the range department.

I'm not here to really say "Clans OP!" or "IS OP!" All I'm here to say is that these MRM or super close-quarter builds people are posting....are distractions. They are not effective in the same ways, against the same things, and the conditions in which they are good are all dramatically different and narrower than the conditions under which a Gauss-vomit build is good, which is why Gauss-vomit FNR/ANH/MCII/BAS builds are dominating the Assault bracket. Them, along with the the heavy ballistic versions of the same 'Mechs sans BAS.

Well here we go. I gave you what you asked for. I can't give you more than that. I do well with these builds when I use them and I think its indisputable that MRM spam is one of the best playstyles around at the moment. I also don't have problems dealing with Gauss-vomit and I never have. That's just my experience. Maybe its because I favor mediums and spry heavies; I don't know how it is dropping into Faction play with a giant brick, and I don't know what playing Assaults is supposed to feel like besides feast or famine depending on whether or not you can get into position.

Clan big alpha (laser vom or gauss vom) isn't the end all be all, is all I'm saying. Is it a bit too flexible? Maybe, but its all the clans have that doesn't suck, and I am convinced that doing anything besides linking cLL and cML and raising the cLL Ghost cap to 3 is the overkill that will finally bury clan mechs, and it will certainly make me throw my favorite modest builds - the reason i keep coming back to the game - into the garbage can.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 15 June 2018 - 11:01 AM.