211 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Daggett, on 15 June 2018 - 07:07 AM, said:

Currently you can do XL170 with 2.5t of ammo:
PIR-1

With ammo that low you need to have really good trigger discipline and only attack backs. But even then you would have a hard time. But with a tad bit more ammo things may look different...

Going lower than 170 would indeed be very risky since you only have enough ammo to backstab, and operating behind enemy lines with less than 130kph just asks for trouble.

Yeah, i could go with 8 HMG, 4t ammo and do the XL170, but it is still ammo starved...

[MovinTarget]

o0cipher0o, on 15 June 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

The boating in itself doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is that 90 tonner that's standing in the back completely fresh, while inefficently sandblasting whatever enemy he can get a lock on for 3 seconds before going to the next one, when our team could have won if all that armor was actually soaking up some damage, and if he was doing some actual focusing (while maybe doing some more damage with the 3 lasers he's mounted as a backup).
In short, what bothers me is the kind of playstyle that's on the complete opposite of teamplay.

But thats the rub. We are playing a team oriented game but allowing solo players to play like solos. The only way to discourage this is to make it impossible to do so through either forcing grouping (solves nothing) or making it difficult to get good user experience by playing that way in a teamwork-heavy environment.

All I am suggesting is that hedging one's bets on indirect damage would be even more discouraged when trying to unload massive amounts of missiles at the same time...

[Vysir]

o0cipher0o, on 15 June 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

The boating in itself doesn't really bother me, what bothers me is that 90 tonner that's standing in the back completely fresh, while inefficently sandblasting whatever enemy he can get a lock on for 3 seconds before going to the next one, when our team could have won if all that armor was actually soaking up some damage, and if he was doing some actual focusing (while maybe doing some more damage with the 3 lasers he's mounted as a backup).
In short, what bothers me is the kind of playstyle that's on the complete opposite of teamplay.

You are correct in how aggravating it is to see one or more of the big mechs on a team sit in the way back, near 1000 meters. Poking away with their missiles, or some other long range weapon, never getting into the mix where they're needed most. Leaving the much lighter mechs to take the brunt of the enemy assault. The few times I've attempted to play assaults, and even rarer times I put LRMs on them. I try to stay about less than 300 meters from the fight. I hate hiding in a battle, more so when I'm supposed to be the armored laser sponge. Since I tend to suck with LRM mechs and most assaults, it's a pretty rare occasion I'll field one. Those handful of mechs of mine with LRM centered builds tend to be medium mechs (with a single Ebon Jaguar LRM boat), being saved for some challenge. Even those are growing rarer as I move to SRMs, ATMs, and MRMs on those particular mechs.

[o0cipher0o]

MovinTarget, on 15 June 2018 - 08:03 AM, said:

But thats the rub. We are playing a team oriented game but allowing solo players to play like solos. The only way to discourage this is to make it impossible to do so through either forcing grouping (solves nothing) or making it difficult to get good user experience by playing that way in a teamwork-heavy environment.

All I am suggesting is that hedging one's bets on indirect damage would be even more discouraged when trying to unload massive amounts of missiles at the same time...

But that would penalise also thise (few) people that still boat lurms, but manage to do so in a effective way, and with and for the team.
That's why i say that the playstile is what needs to be targeted. Something like a few bonuses tied to some things would be a good starting point, imho. Something like bonus earnings if you have LoS on the target you're hitting ( kind of how tag damage works), and then another bonus if you're dealing that damage while staying with the team (for example you have to be within 60 meters of 2 friendly mechs).
I think something along those lines would be worth a try, before nerfing even more the way lurms work (because let's admit it, lurms aren't that great of a weapon, their only saving grace usually is the relative ease of use and the ability to stay behind a cover while shooting.

[MovinTarget]

o0cipher0o, on 15 June 2018 - 08:16 AM, said:

But that would penalise also thise (few) people that still boat lurms, but manage to do so in a effective way, and with and for the team.
That's why i say that the playstile is what needs to be targeted. Something like a few bonuses tied to some things would be a good starting point, imho. Something like bonus earnings if you have LoS on the target you're hitting ( kind of how tag damage works), and then another bonus if you're dealing that damage while staying with the team (for example you have to be within 60 meters of 2 friendly mechs).
I think something along those lines would be worth a try, before nerfing even more the way lurms work (because let's admit it, lurms aren't that great of a weapon, their only saving grace usually is the relative ease of use and the ability to stay behind a cover while shooting.

Oh yeah los targeting should have all kinds of advantages like being 2-3 times faster lock, more accurate, etc...

How about actually a data-feed lag for relying on teammates targeting, basically, tactical data that isn't acquired by los is simply laggy by a few milliseconds so if you have a slow mover out in the open, sure it works, but on a speedy light the lurms might end up hitting where he was a moment ago....

[Reposter]

Anyone think IS still need buffs to Energy Weapons?

I think Clan ER PPC need to generate less heat?

[Dee Eight]

RapidRewind, on 15 June 2018 - 08:13 AM, said:

You are correct in how aggravating it is to see one or more of the big mechs on a team sit in the way back, near 1000 meters

Still less aggravating than seeing a certain player in a 3ERLL Raven3L on your team....

[GweNTLeR]

o0cipher0o, on 15 June 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

What scares me about the extreme lurm ammo buff is the fact that we'll likely end up seeing even more of the dumb assaults boating lurms, hiding behind a cover (thus making the artemis they're using useless, just to prove they're so noob they can't even use lurms properly), making it even harder for the decent players to carry the team when that happens.

The case you described could happen, but a more likely outcome is that GOOD players (in groups) and teams will start using LRM instead of other direct fire weapons, since they will provide basically the same battle efficiency as other weapons and could actually shine in teamplay. There are plenty of situations when indirect is a better option than direct. I have already fought several battles against higher than average unit in CW which was spamming LRM supernovas on Alpine. I have to admit, THAT WAS effective. A spotter was providing just enough info for 3-4 supernovas to land LRM80 on a single mech (-35-40% of that mech).

And BTW, a good narcer/tagger CAN actually turn tables into his favor even in potato lurm team, so I guess many good players will just switch to scouts IF that happens.

o0cipher0o, on 15 June 2018 - 05:25 AM, said:

Buffing AMS wouldn't affect the majority of the players that can actually play, as most of them (like me) never equip it, as it's a waste if tonnage considering you can use covers and actual tactical movement to avoid the bees.

What we need, is PGI to put in place something that rewards a more active use of LRM, and punishes people just spamming them from behind a rock.

You see, the whole history of human warfare is a fight between a sword and a shield. AMS is not a shield for a single person - it is a team shield. Just like LURMs, which shine when used properly in a team. A single AMS can easily take down a NARC(and hence save your life) or take down 3-4 missiles out of a volley. A lance with AMS on each mech can cut in a half efficiency of a single Lurm boat. It is YOUR OWN choice not to pick AMS, because you think that it is useless. You take the risk. But as a team - it is worthy to communicate and agree to pick AMS on some mechs in a dropdeck to dramatically decrease incoming damage. Too bad a few people understand it.

MovinTarget, on 15 June 2018 - 05:47 AM, said:

If you want to nerf lurm boating, make in-air missile collision a thing... the more missiles converging on one target, the more likely some of them will get in each other's way, either reducing accuracy or just completely knocking into each other and cancelling each other out... This would reduce the efficacy of individual boaters and even more so, teams of boaters as they may have to coordinate firing to minimize the negative effects.

PGI can't do collision. You are asking for impossible.

Edited by GweNTLeR, 15 June 2018 - 09:20 AM.

[Tiantara]

- For sunken in shoulders weapon slots of Blood Asp. Much better was idea to make them dynamic. By button which open and close rocket hard-points in archer or catapult - make possible change position of weapon. Sunk in shoulders or bring back to high position to precise fire from cover or behind teammates. That could be much greater game mechanic for that mech and any future mech with similar design...

[Ninjah]

Less weapon ammo needed = more weight available for AMS ammo/AMS.

[dario03]

Very surprised about machine guns not getting any more ammo. Few mwowc stock builds that only have 0.5-1T ammo without much else to go with the mgs.
Oversight or intended?

Edited by dario03, 15 June 2018 - 01:40 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 15 June 2018 - 01:39 PM, said:

Very surprised about machine guns not getting any more ammo. Few mwowc stock builds that only have 0.5-1T ammo without much else to go with the mgs.
Oversight or intended?

In light of Piranhas, Mist Lynxes, Arctic Cheetahs, and soon Fleas: probably very much intended.

[d00mchild]

PLEASE CHANGE SOLARIS GAME CYCLE TO 60sec.
for the love of blake, please !!!

[Cranky Puppy]

DAD WARRIOR ONLINE EVENT

Hey PGI by the way... you have a mis type on the Medium Class Challenge... you have "Get 10 Assists in a LIght Mech"


hmmm do I get free stuff now? Hmm I like a Pirannah Hero Mech or the one with 25 machine guns or close to that number.

Edited by Cranky Puppy, 15 June 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[D V Devnull]

d00mchild, on 15 June 2018 - 04:28 PM, said:

PLEASE CHANGE SOLARIS GAME CYCLE TO 60sec.
for the love of blake, please !!!

I bet you there was some gaming of the Solaris Mode's MatchMaker. Frankly however, I get how you feel about 3 Minutes being too long. Maybe we could agree on getting PGI to set it to 2 Minutes?

~D. V. "At least, I think it would work to fix the Solaris Mode's MatchMaking issue in both directions..." Devnull

[Gannycus]

Ninjah, on 15 June 2018 - 12:58 PM, said:

Less weapon ammo needed = more weight available for AMS ammo/AMS.

After patch I'm going to check the more weight available for my Grasshopper, Crab and Black Knight

[Arkhangel]

for the guy arguing the "RAC is useless."

it's an assault killer. RACs, like MRMs, are devastatingly effective on big slow moving/stationary targets, to the point that my Nightstar I mount a pair of 5s on saws through any Clan Assault in roughly around 5-6 seconds if they're stupid enough to stand and facetank them, something a lot of Clan pilots learned not to do very quickly last year when they were added, but still occasionally fall prey to, usually because "My Clan Tech is better than this IS Surat's!"

honestly, most stuff that people claim is "useless" is more just "situational." key is just using it when it's best employed. it's also why most RAC-using mechs tend to have a decent number of other weapons for dealing with targets the RAC might have trouble with, such as fast moving lights, like, say, the Flea we're about to get due to its MASC and ability to jink insanely well.

[dario03]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 June 2018 - 03:57 PM, said:

In light of Piranhas, Mist Lynxes, Arctic Cheetahs, and soon Fleas: probably very much intended.

Perhaps but they said a big part of this was for the stock mwowc mechs. And if they only buffed IS MG ammo then the only one that would benefit would be the flea which might need something since their mgs are 2x the weight. Also a bit more ammo doesn't make those builds less situational, it just raises their max damage potential, they still have all of their downsides.

[Y E O N N E]

dario03, on 15 June 2018 - 07:17 PM, said:

Perhaps but they said a big part of this was for the stock mwowc mechs. And if they only buffed IS MG ammo then the only one that would benefit would be the flea which might need something since their mgs are 2x the weight. Also a bit more ammo doesn't make those builds less situational, it just raises their max damage potential, they still have all of their downsides.

You're preaching to the choir, here, but historically PGI doesn't use that sort of dichotomy for inter-faction balance because the optics are bad and get Clan loyalists rioting.

[Blockpirat]