864 replies to this topic

[kuma8877]

As a solo only player I have to agree with the overall sentiment of "heck no". While I won't shrink from the challenge, evidence provided by bumping into very skilled players that are sync dropping (happens from time to time) can often (not always) lead to one sided matches fairly quickly. My suggestion is to work with your groupmates at becoming better teamates in GP so that you can be successful in that area if that is how you choose to play, as a small group. Rather than try and leverage an inherent advantage in an arena where the very idea of the gamemode is to remove that kind of specific advantage from both teams....hence SOLO queue.

[Vesper11]

Wil McCullough, on 16 June 2018 - 09:35 AM, said:

^this.

there is already a way to play with a friend in-game. it's solaris duos.

unfortunately solaris duos is dead because even though it's fair (and even seeds your team against equally skilled opponents), fair isn't what the people calling for this "feature" want.

having the matchmaker capable of producing a fair match with duos on both teams would mean that a better, more fair way would to have teams made up entirely of duos. 6 duos vs 6 duos. but that's not being requested for either. what they're looking for is a way to inject duos into solo matchmaking with the "compromise" of having a duo in the opposite team as well.

it's obvious that this request comes from people who are tired of being clubbed and their preferred solution is to be the one with the club instead. the "compromise" is they get to club 10 solo players out of 12.

what a great change to the new player experience.

not.

Having unbalanced teams in QP because of useless MM is great not-change to the new player experience :^)
Or maybe GP players want fresh meat for their 5+7 desync drops so they oppose that change? Not politicans, totally!

I don't know how but I'm all in for ability to actually enjoy casual matches with friend(s), not spend 10 minutes waiting for a game with a chance of meeting those delicious 12 man stacks with set outcome where I'm not even allowed to AFK as a form of protest because "it's against ToS you filthy mongrel!".
But for that the game first needs actual working MM which can not only work as a MM for solo player but able to calculate group MM efficiency, then it won't matter that much even in soloqueue as those 12 man "competitive" (if you can call pugstomps competitive) stacks will just have to wait a long long time to get equal opponents.

Edited by Vesper11, 16 June 2018 - 10:43 AM.

[Nightbird]

0 chance of being implemented because it makes GQ not GQ and SQ not SQ.

[Tarl Cabot]

Wil McCullough, on 16 June 2018 - 09:14 AM, said:

OK LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU WHO WANT DUOS IN QP THIS QUESTION:

be honest with yourself.

when you and your friend start doing well and racking up good kdrs and wlr in qp, are you guys going to switch to gp? or are you guys going to keep staying in qp bowling skittles?

For myself, there would only be a check mark to drop into both queues as there would be no option to be excluded from group queue.

I believe several who are waiting this never had to deal with PGI coding methods. PGI would likely NOT limit 1 2man per team in the SQ, cause they sure couldnt/wouldnt do it when it was mixed, never mind using the average Elo instead of using the higher Elo in the group.

I do not have any faith that PGI would do it in the best way possible. Hell, it took them years to add in-combat VOIP in a TEAM-CENTRIC game that still has a bare bones text chat setup.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 16 June 2018 - 12:02 PM.

[Gwahlur]

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

So if I make a smurf account and drop with someone like Proton do we get to drop in QP in that model?

Yeah, for a game or two or three before the system recognizes that you're doing too well to be noobs

[MischiefSC]

Gwahlur, on 16 June 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

Yeah, for a game or two or three before the system recognizes that you're doing too well to be noobs

So of I'm a noob who has a couple of good games I don't get to group up?

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

TWIAFU, on 16 June 2018 - 03:33 AM, said:

Ohh, so I can bring by Uber T1 duo group into solo queue, with us both on TS, and farm the living hell outta all the solo players and only have to 'worry' about another duo group.

Yea, love it! Will make clubbing all that much easier.

Oh man, I hope you're grouping with tier, sustained, or some of the emp and eon guys because I'd love to find them without a full lance and get better chances of seeing how that stacks up. You are talking about 99th percentile players in your group to compensate, right? Because I want to fight more of those players in realistic settings. I've got a strong track record by effectively myself in either queue with the majority of my time unironically spent in small groups, like 2-3 person groups, in the group queue. I'm honestly not getting that much better though, since people don't make me regret my poor choices enough with the exception of those guys.

Wil McCullough, on 16 June 2018 - 07:44 AM, said:

OK LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU WHO WANT DUOS IN QP THIS QUESTION:

be honest with yourself.

when you and your friend start doing well and racking up good kdrs and wlr in qp, are you guys going to switch to gp? or are you guys going to keep staying in qp bowling skittles?

ya, i thought so.

Wouldn't change anything from how it is now for me. It doesn't really matter what weight class I play, which mechs, or builds, I seem to do pretty okay. If anything, it might let the people in solo queue punish my ******** a little bit easier. It would mostly just make the difference for my friends, so they have a better chance to learn. And I don't mean 'learn with an advantage', I mean learn because the queues don't allow them to get consistent games with us together in general for them to have a chance to, and they haven't developed an active enough interest to queue by themselves. They deserve to feel the ******** of organized light wolf packs eating their assaults for breakfast, the stupidity of JJing mediums absolutely loaded to **** with medium range weaponry for poptarting and arty strikes, the shitfest that is organized LRM lances choosing cold maps with a NARCtic cheetah buddy. They need those experiences, and they get them best in group queues, but I still want to be able to play with them when they're around because not everyone CAN be here during NA prime time.

I honestly just want a release after 5 or 10 minutes so it's actually possible to find a game with a friend past north american prime time without asking a bunch of friends to setup a 4 or 6 with me or hopping into a discord with a lot of my UK and Australian friends. I don't want groups to have the OPTION of matching against either. I want it to be 100% mechanically decided and allowed only if queues otherwise just aren't happening in the group match maker. The check would need to be long enough that it doesn't hurt the group queue at normal hours but doesn't leave people high and dry for upwards of 45 minutes, like I've had during a lot of nights, and exclusively allowed in duos. That is a feature that currently is implemented for other match making checks, and could only be 'abused' in theory at excessively late hours of the night, and the only players that could decisively decide games that way are ones I'd love to see in solo/duos so I can turn their CT into jello.

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Match score?

If we use that metric, a player who consistently kills 3 enemies with "only" 105 points of damage will be ranked lower than a player who can only consistently kill 3 enemies with 1000 points of damage. <shrugs>

Alright, so I've played close to 40 games in inner sphere lights this season so far, doing about the same as I manage in my clan counterparts. Honestly, probably a bit worse, I know I do far better in my ACH or MLX, and a shitton better in a piranha, so it's honestly closer to how my jenners used to feel. I have a pretty split usage base between all types, weights, and builds of mechs, with some slight preferences. I'm by no means a light pilot considering I play primarily mediums and assaults, I have my cheetahs mastered from back when they first came out, though because that's around when I started playing. I've wolf packed in no games, used no consumables, stuck with the team, maintained missile locks, and supported assaults by murdering the lights that want their juicy torsos, along with enemy assaults in ****** positions. Now imagine if I actually used arty strikes and UAVs.

If people are managing 3 kills a game with only a hundred damage, tell me how, because I want to be able to do that. I'm averaging 300-500 damage with 1-2 kills, with some outliers around 700-800 with 3-5 kills, and the occasional ****** game where I get actually oneshot by HGRs. I could solo entire 12 man games with that kind of efficiency if it's not being a literally useless nuisance or running around capping for 6 and a half minutes and poking two or three excessively weakened mechs when they're the only one left alive after abandoning their team.

Edited by Ulriya Sykora, 16 June 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[Mystere]

Ulriya Sykora, on 16 June 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

Alright, so I've played close to 40 games in inner sphere lights this season so far, doing about the same as I manage in my clan counterparts. Honestly, probably a bit worse, I know I do far better in my ACH or MLX, and a shitton better in a piranha, so it's honestly closer to how my jenners used to feel. I have a pretty split usage base between all types, weights, and builds of mechs, with some slight preferences. I'm by no means a light pilot considering I play primarily mediums and assaults, I have my cheetahs mastered from back when they first came out, though because that's around when I started playing. I've wolf packed in no games, used no consumables, stuck with the team, maintained missile locks, and supported assaults by murdering the lights that want their juicy torsos, along with enemy assaults in ****** positions. Now imagine if I actually used arty strikes and UAVs.

If people are managing 3 kills a game with only a hundred damage, tell me how, because I want to be able to do that. I'm averaging 300-500 damage with 1-2 kills, with some outliers around 700-800 with 3-5 kills, and the occasional ****** game where I get actually oneshot by HGRs. I could solo entire 12 man games with that kind of efficiency if it's not being a literally useless nuisance or running around capping for 6 and a half minutes and poking two or three excessively weakened mechs when they're the only one left alive after abandoning their team.

Here is a hint: 105 / 3 = ?

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

Mystere, on 16 June 2018 - 07:19 PM, said:

Here is a hint: 105 / 3 = ?

Is less than most medium mechs have structure. Are you expecting me to rear core and backstab lights?

[Besh]

Just play a Striker/assasinate Light . Can get 3, 4, 5kills with very little damage . Is not really easy to do, and even harder to consistently do it . I assume the question was kindof hypothetical .

Edited by Besh, 17 June 2018 - 12:07 AM.

[Blindbeard the Pirate]

Besh, on 17 June 2018 - 12:03 AM, said:

Just play a Striker/assasinate Light . Can get 3, 4, 5kills with very little damage . Is not really easy to do, and even harder to consistently do it . I assume the question was kindof hypothetical .

Yeah, I'll agree with you. Honestly, I have a number of builds that do well against lights, but those are largely mobile HGR builds and other lights with copious amounts of machine guns or pulse lasers. With the MGs, just eat a torso. With the lasers, take a leg. With the HGR spin in circles and laugh because light mechs are victims. The damage number is far too low to be possible though. Most LIGHT mechs have more structure than that, much less armour, and you're almost never getting a clean kill without it being dual HGRs.

Edit:
I really wish we had the firepower we did back with the original clan SPLs. I feel like a lot of the light vs light laser options are really limited now, and a lot of our old splat builds like the invasion jenner and the oxide hardly work with the missile changes. Does anybody else feel extremely pidgeonholed into either sniper builds or MG builds on lights that aren't absurdly tanky like the wolfhound? Anyway the tl;dr is bad hypotheticals are bad at best. Let's slaughter us some locusts.

Edited by Ulriya Sykora, 17 June 2018 - 01:08 AM.

[Daggett]

Ulriya Sykora, on 16 June 2018 - 04:12 PM, said:

If people are managing 3 kills a game with only a hundred damage, tell me how, because I want to be able to do that.

Easy, you just 'steal' them. You don't have to grind through armor and structure by yourself to get the kill.

This way it's possible (although very unlikely) to steal all 12 kills with less than 100 dmg.

The problem in your discussion is that kills are worthless unless you know if the are 'stolen' or earned by backstabbing.
So when seeing the match results i know that the 1000dmg guy has contributed in some way, even without kills and by using lurms.
The 3kills, 100dmg guy however could just have been lucky...

[Kroete]

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Match score?

If we use that metric, a player who consistently kills 3 enemies with "only" 105 points of damage will be ranked lower than a player who can only consistently kill 3 enemies with 1000 points of damage. <shrugs>

We have one player how kills 3 enemys solo and does 3 kmdd
and the other one was vulturing the opened 3 from the first player.

[Mystere]

Kroete, on 17 June 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

We have one player how kills 3 enemys solo and does 3 kmdd
and the other one was vulturing the opened 3 from the first player.

Daggett, on 17 June 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Easy, you just 'steal' them. You don't have to grind through armor and structure by yourself to get the kill.

This way it's possible (although very unlikely) to steal all 12 kills with less than 100 dmg.

The problem in your discussion is that kills are worthless unless you know if the are 'stolen' or earned by backstabbing.
So when seeing the match results i know that the 1000dmg guy has contributed in some way, even without kills and by using lurms.
The 3kills, 100dmg guy however could just have been lucky...

Sigh! People are missing the point: killing efficiently is rewarded less than killing inefficiently.

Edited by Mystere, 17 June 2018 - 04:30 AM.

[Besh]

Daggett, on 17 June 2018 - 02:50 AM, said:

Easy, you just 'steal' them. You don't have to grind through armor and structure by yourself to get the kill.

This way it's possible (although very unlikely) to steal all 12 kills with less than 100 dmg.

The problem in your discussion is that kills are worthless unless you know if the are 'stolen' or earned by backstabbing.
So when seeing the match results i know that the 1000dmg guy has contributed in some way, even without kills and by using lurms.
The 3kills, 100dmg guy however could just have been lucky...

Kroete, on 17 June 2018 - 03:39 AM, said:

We have one player how kills 3 enemys solo and does 3 kmdd
and the other one was vulturing the opened 3 from the first player.

Never ceases to amaze me how, in a Teambased Game like MW:O, people actually consider the concept of "KillStealing" valid . Imho, the Striker/assasinate Light who singles out the badly dmged, having retreated into the back enemy 'Mech who still has weapons to fire with, and kills it, contributes to the Team very valuably . In fact, that precisely is the role of quite a few Light 'Mechs/Builds .

[Mystere]

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 05:34 AM, said:

In short, there is nothing wrong with GP being a victim of itself, that 2-3 mans are contently playing away there all the time even while the dwindling population of GP is causing much longer wait times off of NA prime-time , and there is no problem bringing new players to the game. The problem rests solely with the players. Got it. We can all enjoy that thought when GP folds all together or is merged into QP in the name of faster queue times.

This solo player has absolutely no problem with the solo and group queues being merged. Bring it on!

East Indy, on 16 June 2018 - 05:59 AM, said:

So, PGI: you've never tried equal-size, equal-number multi-player parties in a mixed solo/small group queue. Plus, all that's necessary here is a 2-man for the player and the buddy he wants to pull into MWO.

Do you realize what effect that would have on wait times if strictly adhered to, especially if "skill" was also included as a factor? The MWO "matchmaker" does not have a pool thousands to choose from at any give time.

Edited by Mystere, 17 June 2018 - 05:29 AM.

[Mystere]

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yet again, no one is trying to mislead you. No one asking wants unfair advantage. They want a more balanced very small group play experiance, shorter queue times, and the ability bring new people in to play without subjecting them to being clubbed. I don't think we can be anymore straight with you. If you can't accept that, then we can't really meaningfully discuss it. That's a bummer.

The best solution for a dwindling population -- in an old and stale skeleton of a game that will never get all the missing meat filled in -- is to merge the queues. But having a good matchmaker with a good skill system to support that dwindling population is not going to be easy.

Did I mention that MWO is a mere skeleton of a game?

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

I don't think anyone has stomped the ideas put forth. There is disagreement that seems about equal for either side. Maybe the people against it are more edgy in their objection and maybe a few of those buy into the hidden agenda theory. It is what it is. (Shrug)

By "stomped" he probably meant "I have a sledgehammer and I will pound that idea into Oblivion" times 9000.

[Daggett]

Besh, on 17 June 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Never ceases to amaze me how, in a Teambased Game like MW:O, people actually consider the concept of "KillStealing" valid . Imho, the Striker/assasinate Light who singles out the badly dmged, having retreated into the back enemy 'Mech who still has weapons to fire with, and kills it, contributes to the Team very valuably . In fact, that precisely is the role of quite a few Light 'Mechs/Builds .

That's why i put the word 'steal' in quotation marks, maybe i should have used 'secured' instead?

Of cause there cannot be real killstealing in a teambased game.
Every kill contributes and it would be stupid to not fire just to avoid stealing a kill.

What i wanted to say is that in terms of performance measuring it does matter unter which circumstances the kill was achieved.

Doing a solo kill or kmdd is great, as well as hunting down a mech which would escape and deal damage otherwise. But joining a fight late and randomly doing the last hit to an enemy which would have died anyway a few miliseconds later ist not as much of an achievement.

Some kills are hard earned, others are lucky gifts. Maybe you know better words than 'stealing' or 'securing' to describe those random kills?

Edited by Daggett, 17 June 2018 - 05:52 AM.

[Besh]

Daggett, on 17 June 2018 - 05:51 AM, said:

That's why i put the word 'steal' in quotation marks, maybe i should have used 'secured' instead?

Of cause there cannot be real killstealing in a teambased game.
Every kill contributes and it would be stupid to not fire just to avoid stealing a kill.

What i wanted to say is that in terms of performance measuring it does matter unter which circumstances the kill was achieved.

Doing a solo kill or kmdd is great, as well as hunting down a mech which would escape and deal damage otherwise. But joining a fight late and randomly doing the last hit to an enemy which would have died anyway a few miliseconds later ist not as much of an achievement.

Some kills are hard earned, others are lucky gifts. Maybe you know better words than 'stealing' or 'securing' to describe those random kills?

Ah, thx for the clarifiaction .

Idk, I do not really want to get into a discussion about "random", "secured" or whatever kills . As far as I am concerned, the quicker an OpFor 'Mech that still can fight goes down, the better . Heck, I have been playing with people who purposely stopped working on badly dmged 'Mechs, starting to open up fresher 'Mechs, announcing Target designation on comms with the words "oneTap" or "easy Kill" to alert a Finisher to go in on it....just because they know/knew, their weapons/armor would better serve against more intact Targets .

Edited by Besh, 17 June 2018 - 06:33 AM.

[Kroete]

Besh, on 17 June 2018 - 04:57 AM, said:

Never ceases to amaze me how, in a Teambased Game like MW:O, people actually consider the concept of "KillStealing" valid . Imho, the Striker/assasinate Light who singles out the badly dmged, having retreated into the back enemy 'Mech who still has weapons to fire with, and kills it, contributes to the Team very valuably . In fact, that precisely is the role of quite a few Light 'Mechs/Builds .

Was an example why the matchscore was earned for the 1000 dmg guy over the 100, give me another word then "vulturing", "securing" (killstealing is not the right word, its a teamgame).
Using lrms, you often let enemys open for your allys, as you let weaponless mechs go, but can be sure there will be at least 2 teammates doing all, including overheating, to "secure" that kill, even when the match gets lost by this.
Its not that good for mwo, that winning is not that important then personal stats.