864 replies to this topic

[JudauAshta]

Hell no you autismo

group/lances have ruined soo many other game, its not even funny.

you really think it wont effect mwo? you'll get even more stomps then currently

[Vxheous]

My winrate for this month playing in groups of 2-4, with some occassional solo matches thrown in is 87%. Opposition groups have disbanded and gone into sync dropping into solo queue to avoid fights. Allowing small 2-4 man groups to drop into the solo queue will completely destroy solo queue.

My group consisted of a combination of these players (small as 2 but usually never greater than 4): Myself, Imminent, Adette, Nova-, Chimera11. My group might be on the extreme end of the skill spectrum, but even above average 2-4 mans will wreak havoc on solo queue.

Edited by Vxheous, 15 June 2018 - 10:02 PM.

[Chortles]

I see you mentioned World of Warships in support of allowing groups in solo queue. It's pretty clear that you also haven't played that game for a while to realize the implications of implementing this system back into MWO. WoWs is incredibly imbalanced and easily to manipulate for your team's favor because the matchmaking is based entirely on ship class and ship tier. For example, if one team has an aircraft carrier, the other team must also have one. If you're playing groups (max 3), one player can choose the carrier to force one on the other team while the other two players can choose anti air ships. If the solo queue carrier has no AA ships on his team, he is going to have a bad time.

[csebal]

Though debated to death over and over in the past, here are my 2 cents on the topic.

I honestly believe that the current group play system is a very poor attempt at an otherwise though and hard to crack dilemma.

Organized groups can be unbalanced, which is why they are usually limited in solo queues in most if not all games. That's not to say that groups are all created equal. There is a huge difference between two casuals wanting to play together and an organized team of 6-8 players belonging to a single clan looking to practice team play.(read: stomp )

Let's face it.. dropping a bunch of two-three man groups into a game where the opposition is 8 guys of the same clan is just sad. Unless the small group team has someone with the willingness and ability to lead, they will be stomped and since they are not practiced to play together, they will likely be stomped anyway, just less so.

Grouping with a friend is just no fun in the current matchmaking.

With that said, I'd allow two man drops into the single queue with the following additions:
- the difference of two man premades between the teams should not be more than one.
- premades should be indicated / visible on the UI so that everyone (incl. the enemy) knows what to expect.

Until this happens, I just leave the group queue to serious teams and desperate players who do not care about the unfair / unbalanced nature of that thing. With the current matchmaking, sync dropping works pretty well, so while I hate to abuse it, at least it gives me a chance to occasionally also play against my friends not just with them.

Edited by csebal, 16 June 2018 - 12:56 AM.

[TWIAFU]

a le Roi, on 15 June 2018 - 12:30 PM, said:

You aren't even listening. This isn't about getting an advantage.

It's about being able to actually play the game with a friend without A) spending 75% of your game time waiting, and being thrown into matches with 6-man groups of Tier 1 pros.

Ohh, so I can bring by Uber T1 duo group into solo queue, with us both on TS, and farm the living hell outta all the solo players and only have to 'worry' about another duo group.

Yea, love it! Will make clubbing all that much easier.

[Haipyng]

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 08:03 PM, said:

Doing that effectively kills the group queue.

I would not dispute that. GP already has a a bit of a wait outside of North American prime time and likely why duos were proposed in QP. GP is a victim of itself and without a middle ground of some kind it will continue to dwindle.

[Steve Pryde]

Forcing small groups to fight against (much) bigger groups was the main reason for my friends to quit MWO entirely. Btw do you tried to find a game with a 2 man group? Waiting times are ridiculous long. No one wants to wait for minutes.

[Haipyng]

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 09:40 PM, said:

Nice ad hominem.

It wasn't meant as a personal attack. It was a serious question. So many of your post fall back to that after being repeatedly and sometimes explicitly told why they are looking for some sort of change. Even in this reply you again tell us there is "zero reason to even suggest this aside from wanting to win more than you are currently. None. Nothing." in bold text no less. You even go on to say " nobody is fooled by the source of it". It's like you 'know' we are all in cahoots and have a secret agenda to seek absolute MWO domination and otherwise ruin the game for all. (cue sinister evil laughter) Again I did not mean it as a personal attack, I am sincerely sorry that your took it as such and I offended you.

Again you are adamant that 2 mans will cause the total destruction of QP, and offer the 4 mans of years past when we had no in game comms and a seriously defective MM as absolutely proof that 2 mans won't work today. The flaws in this line of thinking have already been put out there and discussed. We are going in circles.

In short, there is nothing wrong with GP being a victim of itself, that 2-3 mans are contently playing away there all the time even while the dwindling population of GP is causing much longer wait times off of NA prime-time , and there is no problem bringing new players to the game. The problem rests solely with the players. Got it. We can all enjoy that thought when GP folds all together or is merged into QP in the name of faster queue times.

[East Indy]

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 11:26 AM, said:

Mixed group and singles tried to put teams on each side and it was max 1 team on each side.

Party size wasn't matched. You'd have a two-man on one and a four-man on the other.

So, PGI: you've never tried equal-size, equal-number multi-player parties in a mixed solo/small group queue. Plus, all that's necessary here is a 2-man for the player and the buddy he wants to pull into MWO.

Edited by East Indy, 16 June 2018 - 06:04 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

JudauAshta, on 15 June 2018 - 09:43 PM, said:

Hell no you autismo

group/lances have ruined soo many other game, its not even funny.

you really think it wont effect mwo? you'll get even more stomps then currently

You call people autistic yet we have a team based online game where it's meant to be played with teamwork in mind that has a solo queue for those who refuse to team up?
EH?

You don't think being punished and shunned for doing exactly what the game's designers' originally intended is in anyway odd? You think refusing to play socially in an environment that's main draw is being social i.e the other players and then being rewarded for that is in anyway strange?
I though the whole point of online, multiplayer gaming was to play with and talk to-other gamers?
I thought single player games were designed for solo players? Or does online multiplayer team based game actually mean super solo, I'll do what I want solo based game?

Edited by Jon Gotham, 16 June 2018 - 06:02 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

I posted an essay detailing exactly why the proposed idea won't work and the people posting their support of it don't even read, let alone respond.

Typical.

[XViper]

I'm in FULL support of allowing 2 man groups in the Solo queue.
It could be easily matched to ensure you have a "2-man" on each team, if people are THAT concerned about how much 2 out of 12 people can swing a game.

This game is so much more fun when playing with friends, and the 'group' queue is just too inactive and WAY MORE imbalanced for a 2 man party, than having those 2 people in the Solo queue.

For anyone complaining against 2 man's in Solo, have you actually tried playing a 2 man in a group game?
It's utterly ********. When you have the frequent situation of going up against 8-10 man groups, the stomp is beyond comprehension. More than anything you would get having a couple of 2 man's in Solo queue.

There's NOTHING about this game that encourages you to play with a mate.

As mentioned above, it would be quite easy to ensure there is a 2 man on each team, or limit it to only 1 or 2 x 2 man squads per Solo queue. It's easy as **** to code and balance.

Edited by XViper, 16 June 2018 - 07:17 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

XViper, on 16 June 2018 - 07:04 AM, said:

I'm in FULL support of allowing 2 man groups in the Solo queue.
It could be easily matched to ensure you have a "2-man" on each team, if people are THAT concerned about how much 2 out of 12 people can swing a game.

This game is so much more fun when playing with friends, and the 'group' queue is just too inactive and WAY MORE imbalanced for a 2 man party, than having those 2 people in the Solo queue.

For anyone complaining against 2 man's in Solo, have you actually tried playing a 2 man in a group game?
It's utterly ********. When you have the frequent situation of going up against 8-10 man groups, the stomp is beyond comprehension. More than anything you would get having a couple of 2 man's in Solo queue.

There's NOTHING about this game that encourages you to play with a mate.

As mentioned above, it would be quite easy to ensure there is a 2 man on each team, or limit it to only 1 or 2 x 2 man squads per Solo queue. It's easy as **** to code and balance.

You have better tonnage as a two man group in gp. Back when i still played, 4 man groups were the optimal way to play. That's how you sweep your opppnents with 9 assaults.

2 man groups in qp can consist of players like proton and other emp members. Even a duo like say, juju and bearclaw are overwhelming in qp. You put them together in two assaults and they'll wipe the floor even harder. Your cute little duo with your new friend won't even be a speedbump. If they're playing, you may as well take the night off since they're a duo and you're a duo and that means by your suggestion, you'll always be facing off against them.

A proper matchmaker and tier ranking would mitigate most of this problem, but pgi has refused to change its stance on matchmaker (probably due to low player numbers) and tier (they seem to think everyone should reach tier one eventually).

Essentially, you're still looking at the same "problem": that better skilled players with teamwork wreck you. consistently. That's why you don't want to play against them. The only thing this suggestion does is give you and your friend an advantage in a previously equal playing field against solo players, so that you get more skittles to bowl over with the same OP teamwork and communication that you're getting smashed by in gp.

In other words, you're just looking to make your problem someone else's problem. you want to be the one people complain about rather than the one complaining about others.

edit:

OK LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU WHO WANT DUOS IN QP THIS QUESTION:

be honest with yourself.

when you and your friend start doing well and racking up good kdrs and wlr in qp, are you guys going to switch to gp? or are you guys going to keep staying in qp bowling skittles?

ya, i thought so.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 16 June 2018 - 08:49 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 05:34 AM, said:

Snip

Except you're still missing the point. I'm not offended by the suggestion I'm offended by how disingenuous the idea is.

Small groups are the majority of what fills group queue. Plenty of 2-4mans in GQ all the time every day. It's absolutely false to say small groups can't play in group queue as various people who do so regularly have pointed out to you.

Allowing small groups in QP isn't a problem for GQ because GQ is too hard - it's that being a group in solo queue is a massive advantage and the bulk of GQ is already small teams and as such will make matchmaking harder for everyone else so small teams can go play with a big advantage against pugs...

All because bad small groups want to win more without earning that success.

There is no reason or justification for groups in pug queue other than wanting to play in a group vs pugs because you're losing a lot in GQ. You're losing to other small groups in GQ too - it's not about group size.

That's why people stomp this idea so hard. It's incredibly dishonest.

[Haipyng]

MischiefSC, on 16 June 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

I'm offended by how disingenuous the idea is.

Yet again, no one is trying to mislead you. No one asking wants unfair advantage. They want a more balanced very small group play experiance, shorter queue times, and the ability bring new people in to play without subjecting them to being clubbed. I don't think we can be anymore straight with you. If you can't accept that, then we can't really meaningfully discuss it. That's a bummer.

MischiefSC, on 16 June 2018 - 08:12 AM, said:

That's why people stomp this idea so hard. It's incredibly dishonest.

I don't think anyone has stomped the ideas put forth. There is disagreement that seems about equal for either side. Maybe the people against it are more edgy in their objection and maybe a few of those buy into the hidden agenda theory. It is what it is. (Shrug)

[Chados]

They want a better small group play by making the game unplayable for solos. Hell No.

[Wil McCullough]

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yet again, no one is trying to mislead you. No one asking wants unfair advantage. They want a more balanced very small group play experiance, shorter queue times, and the ability bring new people in to play without subjecting them to being clubbed. I don't think we can be anymore straight with you. If you can't accept that, then we can't really meaningfully discuss it. That's a bummer.



I don't think anyone has stomped the ideas put forth. There is disagreement that seems about equal for either side. Maybe the people against it are more edgy in their objection and maybe a few of those buy into the hidden agenda theory. It is what it is. (Shrug)

OK LET ME ASK ALL OF YOU WHO WANT DUOS IN QP THIS QUESTION:

be honest with yourself.

when you and your friend start doing well and racking up good kdrs and wlr in qp, are you guys going to switch to gp? or are you guys going to keep staying in qp bowling skittles?

[Cloves]

Just go look at the "opt-in" feature for folks to join the GQ with one mech poll. It's a better solution.

-edit Or make a private lobby group. Invite friends to fill to whatever level of game you want to play.

Edited by Cloves, 16 June 2018 - 09:19 AM.

[Chortles]

Haipyng, on 16 June 2018 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yet again, no one is trying to mislead you. No one asking wants unfair advantage. They want a more balanced very small group play experiance, shorter queue times, and the ability bring new people in to play without subjecting them to being clubbed. I don't think we can be anymore straight with you. If you can't accept that, then we can't really meaningfully discuss it. That's a bummer.

Politicians always say that they are for the people, but they usually do so to obtain advantages for themselves. The people in support of groups in solo queue are being stomped in group queue, so they want their group in solo queue for "balanced gameplay". In actuality, they want to be the ones that stomp random pugs. We already understand your position and there is no need for further deliberation considering the only point the defenders made so far is being stomped.

Edited by Chortles, 16 June 2018 - 09:22 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Chortles, on 16 June 2018 - 09:19 AM, said:

Politicians always say that they are for the people, but they usually do so to obtain advantages for themselves. The people in support of groups in solo queue are being stomped in group queue, so they want their group in solo queue for "balanced gameplay". In actuality, they want to be the ones that stomp random pugs. We already understand your position and there is no need for further deliberation considering the only point the defenders made so far is being stomped.

^this.

there is already a way to play with a friend in-game. it's solaris duos.

unfortunately solaris duos is dead because even though it's fair (and even seeds your team against equally skilled opponents), fair isn't what the people calling for this "feature" want.

having the matchmaker capable of producing a fair match with duos on both teams would mean that a better, more fair way would to have teams made up entirely of duos. 6 duos vs 6 duos. but that's not being requested for either. what they're looking for is a way to inject duos into solo matchmaking with the "compromise" of having a duo in the opposite team as well.

it's obvious that this request comes from people who are tired of being clubbed and their preferred solution is to be the one with the club instead. the "compromise" is they get to club 10 solo players out of 12.

what a great change to the new player experience.

not.