864 replies to this topic

[Haipyng]

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Except group queue is fun for small groups. It was always fun for small groups. It also used to be fun for big grouos. That's why group queue has a way bigger population then. I have fun in group queue, especially in groups under 6.

No one is saying that you can't have fun in GP. Random luck arranges fair matches sometimes and if very small groups want to play there then they should.

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

People act like "git gud" is an insult or brush off. It's not. It's a solution and one everyone who is beating you at the game has already adopted. If you're frustrated at losing quit trying to get the game changed to make doing whatever you're doing that's losing suddenly work better. Get better at the game.

Generally speaking it is often used that way for QP people complaining about losing streaks and then it tends to be, partially, a cop out answer because QP MM is clunky and the system sometimes makes bad matches using skewed data.

In any case for GP it's a total cop out answer that does nothing for the problem. There are no weights and balances in GP. A large practiced, coordinated, skilled team is a huge match multiplier that two or three uber skilled players are not going to be able to overcome very often. It's the domino effect, as soon as a team is down by 3 players it becomes exponentially harder to come back from that loss with each player that is killed off no matter how "gud" you are.

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Group queue is fun for smaller groups. You can have great fun in a 2-6 man. Max your tonnage and make sure you're using in game comms. If it looks lime a 12man on the other side, great! You've got a 200-300 ton advantage. Good players are not complaining that group queue is no fun for small groups because they still win plenty in group queue. The only problem with running a smaller group in group queue is when you drop alongside a 3man who all took lights and mediums and don't coordinate with the team so you're down tonnage and useful teammates.

The tonnage variable that was introduced was a misguided idea that does not squarely deal with the issue. Now 2 to 3 man groups almost have to take assaults or heavies or risk making their team too light to be effective or in the cases where MM puts like sized groups on either team one team can get a huge weight bonus because GP MM does not match on Tier and does not match teams on builds or weight any more. The change also upset competitive teams. The added tonnage also does not do much to help lesser skilled players that do potato things that hurt the team. It also does absolutely nothing for trying to bring in friends to try the game together. In GP they still repeatedly get seal clubbed to death only to find they have to play alone in QP to "git gud". People do not stick around for that.

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 04:13 PM, said:

Stop the special pleading. Play the game by the same rules everyone else does, use the same tools everyone else gets and win or lose based on your ability and willingness to do so effectively.

There is nothing special about it, just from the simple fact that it keeps coming up. It was argued early on that there needs to be an intermediate place for small groups in order to retain more players. Status quo is not retaining many new players and neither is alternate game types because QP is a limited place to feed new players from and GP just introduces newbies to an unfun environment to learn the game in.

The problem exists and ignoring it only makes our population problem worse.

[Haipyng]

Vellron2005, on 14 June 2018 - 10:54 PM, said:

I suggested having 2-man groups in Solo Que just a couple days ago..

Yes sir you did and I didn't comment for most of the reasons we are seeing in this thread.

[Haipyng]

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

I think what you are missing is that when 2/3-mans are allowed, schools of really hungry and really dangerous sharks will also be coming into the kiddie pool. I expect a bloodbath when that happens.

It happens now when Tryhards go slumming with alt accounts. It's the danger of F2P games with no barrier to making new accounts.

I don't think anyone is advocating for scrapping Tiers with allowing very small groups in QP. You would have to base it off of the tier of the highest member of the group. In other words a Tier 1 and a Tier 5 player are going to get dropped (in theory given QP MM quirkiness and population woes) with higher Tiers.

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

And that's not even counting the fact that the group queue will be starved of small teams serving as fillers for bigger ones.

This and faster queue times has been the reason for every limiting change that has been made and is helping drive player populations down in a race to the bottom.

• Remove real choice in maps, check.
  
• Remove real choice in game mode, check.
  
• Make it so the only way to learn the game is to play solo in QP, check.
  
• Have a clumsy MMing system in QP that accumulates skewed data to base matches on, check.
  
• Have no real filtering in GP MM so all tiers are lumped together and have no balance in individual group sizes, builds or by tonnage, Check.
  
• Upset large competitive groups and sometimes randomly affect GP balance by having random disparity in tonnage on teams caused by small groups needing to take Assaults and Heavies in order to not cause the team to be light in tonnage, check.
  
• Make it so you can only play together with new friends in GP where they will get repeatedly clubbed, check.

All things that are creating unfun dynamics that push non-Mech Warrior fanatics out of the game, lowering population and cause lots of consternation by those silly enough to keep playing.

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

You might as well re-merge the separate queues.

We keep dropping population and limiting options and we will get there soon enough I am afraid.

Mystere, on 15 June 2018 - 04:05 AM, said:

And the first things that need to go are these eSports concepts of "matches" and so-called "balanced" N vs. N drops.

Let us have battles instead, really bloddy battles. <shrugs>

You will get no argument on that point from me. Sounds like a great idea.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 June 2018 - 07:00 AM.

[MischiefSC]

a le Roi, on 15 June 2018 - 01:48 AM, said:

You do realize that that is an argument for allowing the casual 2- or 3-man groups to play QP outside of the group queue, right?

What you are saying is that those casual small groups do not do well in GQ and ruin the experience for the rest as well. So why would you want them in GQ rather than in mixed matches with solo players?

No. Because I play casually solo or with a friend. As do my friends.

You said it so much more eloquently than me, but I agree with all of this. Every word.

Casual small groups don't do well in GQ for the same reason casual players don't do well in QP or FW. Because you're always on a team of 12 and teamwork is OP so the team that uses the most teamwork tends to win. GQ has a higher expectation for teamwork.

You'll notice I also said that 'you have to play on the same field and by the same rules as everyone else.' There is no way to say 'well, these guys make bad choices in the mech bay, don't use teamwork and one of them plays on a joystick. It's okay for them to 3man in QP. These other guys though, they understand how the mechbay works, they communicate and make good choices. They don't get to'. If you allow 2-3mans in QP then anyone and everyone gets to play 2-3mans in QP - which will result in those casuals still getting crushed by the people who communicate and make good choices.

As I said. You're not actually asking for small casual groups in QP. You're asking to let 'Just me and a couple of my friends group up in QP and play in a group vs pugs consistently, but nobody who is better than us should get to do so'.

Groups of 2-3 do great in group queue all the time. Quit trying to get the game skewed to give you an advantage you have not earned.

[MischiefSC]

a le Roi, on 15 June 2018 - 02:03 AM, said:

The issue is not that group matches are not fun or that I don't do well enough in them.

The issue does not resolve itself by me getting better at the game, because that was never the issue.

The issue is that group queue waiting time for a 2-man team is often 10-15 minutes and often more. Even worse in FP.

So the option is to play solo, trying to play with a friend by drop syncing, or waiting with a friend rather than playing. Are you starting to see why the game struggles at attracting more players that would reduce wait times for all?

So you want to attract more people to reduce queue times? Reduce tonnage restrictions for larger teams, especially 8-12. 12mans are rare but they fill the matchmaker, that's for sure. More people dropping in 8-10mans will create more opportunities to fill 2-3mans.

There you go. Shorter wait times is a great idea. You get that by more people playing. In group queue the population deciled due to making it unenjoyable to drop in a larger group. It functionally forces you to go full tryhard mode every single match if you're more than 6 people.

More players also improves the ability of the matchmaker to build balanced matches.

[MischiefSC]

Haipyng, on 15 June 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

No one is saying that you can't have fun in GP. Random luck arranges fair matches sometimes and if very small groups want to play there then they should.



Generally speaking it is often used that way for QP people complaining about losing streaks and then it tends to be, partially, a cop out answer because QP MM is clunky and the system sometimes makes bad matches using skewed data.

In any case for GP it's a total cop out answer that does nothing for the problem. There are no weights and balances in GP. A large practiced, coordinated, skilled team is a huge match multiplier that two or three uber skilled players are not going to be able to overcome very often. It's the domino effect, as soon as a team is down by 3 players it becomes exponentially harder to come back from that loss with each player that is killed off no matter how "gud" you are.



The tonnage variable that was introduced was a misguided idea that does not squarely deal with the issue. Now 2 to 3 man groups almost have to take assaults or heavies or risk making their team too light to be effective or in the cases where MM puts like sized groups on either team one team can get a huge weight bonus because GP MM does not match on Tier and does not match teams on builds or weight any more. The change also upset competitive teams. The added tonnage also does not do much to help lesser skilled players that do potato things that hurt the team. It also does absolutely nothing for trying to bring in friends to try the game together. In GP they still repeatedly get seal clubbed to death only to find they have to play alone in QP to "git gud". People do not stick around for that.



There is nothing special about it, just from the simple fact that it keeps coming up. It was argued early on that there needs to be an intermediate place for small groups in order to retain more players. Status quo is not retaining many new players and neither is alternate game types because QP is a limited place to feed new players from and GP just introduces newbies to an unfun environment to learn the game in.

The problem exists and ignoring it only makes our population problem worse.

So dramatically reduce tonnage limits for larger groups. There is no way to build an 'intermediary place for small groups of casuals'. QP isn't it. That's screwing the solo players over by handing a big advantage to people who play in 2-3s. That's a worse solution. Private lobbies to teach someone basics works and is free now. We had many thousands of players more than we do now; they were driven off by making GQ unenjoyable and then driving FW into the ground with 1 Bukkit. Many hundreds, as in like 1k or so players were 'casual' skill level but played in groups and did the lorehound faction loyalist thing. They also constantly sought out and recruited and trained up players. That whole population is gone.

None of the queues exists in a vacuum. The reality is that as the population of the game shrinks methods of having casuals/bads carried by good players shrinks. There's not enough good players and no way to effectively spread them out. There's not enough casuals to just have them playing each other. It's going to be mixed from QP to GQ. The casual solution is coming in the forum of MW5 and getting to play coop vs bots. Screwing up MWO even worse by letting teams back into QP is not a solution and wouldn't help them anyway because they'd get stomped by good 3mans, who would be the raised middle finger of god in QP.

[Rushin Roulette]

There is a short answer to this and a long answer.

The short answer is: no.

The long answer is more detailed and can be found in the spoiler tab to save space;

Spoiler

[justcallme A S H]

a le Roi, on 15 June 2018 - 02:07 AM, said:

Maybe that should rather be taken as a sign that it is a much-needed feature?

Are you truly, truly, that lacking of basic common sense?

If so then yeah - create these topics weekly.

If not - stop.

[Besh]

Haipyng, on 15 June 2018 - 05:18 AM, said:

No one is saying that you can't have fun in GP. Random luck arranges fair matches sometimes and if very small groups want to play there then they should.

Generally speaking it is often used that way for QP people complaining about losing streaks and then it tends to be, partially, a cop out answer because QP MM is clunky and the system sometimes makes bad matches using skewed data.

In any case for GP it's a total cop out answer that does nothing for the problem. There are no weights and balances in GP. A large practiced, coordinated, skilled team is a huge match multiplier that two or three uber skilled players are not going to be able to overcome very often. It's the domino effect, as soon as a team is down by 3 players it becomes exponentially harder to come back from that loss with each player that is killed off no matter how "gud" you are.

The tonnage variable that was introduced was a misguided idea that does not squarely deal with the issue. Now 2 to 3 man groups almost have to take assaults or heavies or risk making their team too light to be effective or in the cases where MM puts like sized groups on either team one team can get a huge weight bonus because GP MM does not match on Tier and does not match teams on builds or weight any more. The change also upset competitive teams. The added tonnage also does not do much to help lesser skilled players that do potato things that hurt the team. It also does absolutely nothing for trying to bring in friends to try the game together. In GP they still repeatedly get seal clubbed to death only to find they have to play alone in QP to "git gud". People do not stick around for that.

There is nothing special about it, just from the simple fact that it keeps coming up. It was argued early on that there needs to be an intermediate place for small groups in order to retain more players. Status quo is not retaining many new players and neither is alternate game types because QP is a limited place to feed new players from and GP just introduces newbies to an unfun environment to learn the game in.

The problem exists and ignoring it only makes our population problem worse.

I quoted the whole thing cos I am too lazy to edit that much rly....but let me ask you : are you even aware of the Tonnage restrictions in GroupQ ? Surely does not seem so to me . Do you even have any experience in dropping in a 2Men , 6Men, 12Men Group, extensively ? Does not seem so to me tbh .

If you had a good Idea of what is going on in GroupQ, you would know that a 2Player Group in their favourite MetaAssaults can totally wreck face against a 12Men....not EVERY 12Men, mind you, but many . Let there be 2 of these 2Men Groups in their favourite MetaAssault, and the 12Men will have it even harder . Have that 12Men face off against 2 2Men and a 4Men who pilot their favourite 'Mechs, its gonna be damn difficult for the 12 men...

Then on the other Hand, a mixed ( tonnage ) 4Men can have a pretty darn awesome Game together with a few other small Groups against a 12Men Group . Even a 2Men Light Team can wreck face against a 12 Men .

You wonder why ?

Tonnage restrictions .

[Haipyng]

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

So dramatically reduce tonnage limits for larger groups. There is no way to build an 'intermediary place for small groups of casuals'. QP isn't it. That's screwing the solo players over by handing a big advantage to people who play in 2-3s. That's a worse solution. Private lobbies to teach someone basics works and is free now. We had many thousands of players more than we do now; they were driven off by making GQ unenjoyable and then driving FW into the ground with 1 Bukkit. Many hundreds, as in like 1k or so players were 'casual' skill level but played in groups and did the lorehound faction loyalist thing. They also constantly sought out and recruited and trained up players. That whole population is gone.

Eh, messing with GP by further limiting their tonnage is going to encourage more sync dropping than happens now by groups and just upset comp teams even more. As you have said yourself PGI has already done that once and it resulted in an exodus of players. The goal should be retain more players, not make limiting choices that reduce fun in order to reduce queue times. That just keeps leading to smaller and smaller populations.

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:29 AM, said:

None of the queues exists in a vacuum. The reality is that as the population of the game shrinks methods of having casuals/bads carried by good players shrinks. There's not enough good players and no way to effectively spread them out. There's not enough casuals to just have them playing each other. It's going to be mixed from QP to GQ. The casual solution is coming in the forum of MW5 and getting to play coop vs bots. Screwing up MWO even worse by letting teams back into QP is not a solution and wouldn't help them anyway because they'd get stomped by good 3mans, who would be the raised middle finger of god in QP.

You are absolutely right none of the queues exist in a vacuum, but we do treat them as if they do. No Solos in Group Play, no Groups in Quick Play. There is no middle ground and it does hurt for bringing in new players. I have no idea how MW5 will turn out, but if it is good it will complete for MWO players and that will just hurt populations more.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 June 2018 - 08:26 AM.

[Kroete]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 08:11 AM, said:

But what difference does it make to the match balance if I join a random game with my friend in a pre-made group or through sync dropping?

Did you know that there were premades in qp?
That they made the groupqueue,
then they removed the big groups from qp,
because they prefered to stomp pugs instead using the new groupqueue.
After that, the groups split up to 4 mans, to stomp pugs in qp, the groupqueue was still empty.
Then they removed all groups from qp and we still have some loosers who try to syncdrop ...

Do i need to explain the difference between exploiting and stomping pugs and fighting with and against other groups?

Edited by Kroete, 15 June 2018 - 07:55 AM.

[Vesper11]

I'm too one of the people that doesn't enjoy dead group queue/meeting 8-12man (probably syncdropped which is very easy with GQ dead) stacks, I want alternative to this ******** game mode (as well as working MM).

Edited by Vesper11, 15 June 2018 - 07:56 AM.

[Haipyng]

Besh, on 15 June 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

I quoted the whole thing cos I am too lazy to edit that much rly....

I don't blame you, all that editing gets tedious.

Besh, on 15 June 2018 - 07:14 AM, said:

but let me ask you : are you even aware of the Tonnage restrictions in GroupQ ? Surely does not seem so to me . Do you even have any experience in dropping in a 2Men , 6Men, 12Men Group, extensively ? Does not seem so to me tbh .

If you had a good Idea of what is going on in GroupQ, you would know that a 2Player Group in their favourite MetaAssaults can totally wreck face against a 12Men....not EVERY 12Men, mind you, but many . Let there be 2 of these 2Men Groups in their favourite MetaAssault, and the 12Men will have it even harder . Have that 12Men face off against 2 2Men and a 4Men who pilot their favourite 'Mechs, its gonna be damn difficult for the 12 men...

Then on the other Hand, a mixed ( tonnage ) 4Men can have a pretty darn awesome Game together with a few other small Groups against a 12Men Group . Even a 2Men Light Team can wreck face against a 12 Men .

You wonder why ?

Tonnage restrictions .

I play about 85% of my time in GP in two or three man groups one, maybe two session a week. I do understand how the tonnage restrictions work. The bigger the group the lighter they are forced to be. There was even a nifty chart published some time ago that I could find for you if it helps.

I don't think it did much for GP, except upset comp teams. It did create more opportunity for random scenarios for imbalanced matches and put pressure for very small groups to field the maximum tonnage available or you risk dropping with a large group and putting the team way under tonnage. In the recent event, a friend and I played the Spiders and landed on a team with 4 other lights. It could have been fun if it was Conquest, or we had all been playing back stabbing lights and the enemy team spread out.

Tonnage helps no doubt. Sure, in theory 6 two man groups could field 12 100 ton assaults, but tonnage does not guarantee victory and it could be argued that sort of a composition actually hurts that team. It's a poor substitute for practiced well coordinated teams, even if there was a 600 ton deficit between them.

The randomness in GP MM results in huge disparities in teams sometimes that tonnage does not make up for, whether that is by stacking what amounts to a bunch of QP level players of varying tiers against a large competitive team or like sized groups and skills with one side getting a vast majority of assaults and heavies. Sometimes it manages to create a decent match despite itself. It's so random in how it puts together teams that sometimes puts together teams so awkward, so often, it makes QP MM look completely fair and balanced.

We often have to shrug it off and if it is too bad that night go do something else. Of course Group Queue tonnage restrictions do nothing for new players in GQ.

Edited by Haipyng, 15 June 2018 - 08:34 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

Currently, if you're in a group of 2-4 people, like you would be if you're just playing quick play with a couple of friends, the wait times can be insanely long.

10-15 minutes for a match that lasts a few minutes is not viable in the long run, as it discourages playing with friends vs. playing solo.

Meanwhile, that group of 2-4 in a random quick play match would not be terribly unbalancing. A solo player with a mic and charisma can cause far more lopsided results in quick play than a small band of merry friends that don't communicate with the rest of the team.

So, in short, enabling those 2-4 person groups to play in the same queue as solo players would
1) Shorten wait times for all
2) Make quick play matches no less balanced
3) Increase the game's attractiveness, which would eventually help with the player base

Please consider making that change, for your sake and for the sake of all of us non-unit players.

I will tell you all the "pros" yell into the direction of QP players: if you want organized matches go to FP.

Good luck, have fun

[a le Roi]

Bush Hopper, on 15 June 2018 - 09:36 AM, said:

I will tell you all the "pros" yell into the direction of QP players: if you want organized matches go to FP.

Good luck, have fun

I'd love to play more FP. In fact I'd love to play almost only FP.

But that would mean I would be playing almost not at all, because the wait times are often that long. And I'm patient enough to wait for 10 minutes even when I don't know I'm going to get into a match in 10 minutes. A lot of people are not as patient and MWO isn't helping by not giving any information about the number of people in queue.

[a le Roi]

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

Casual small groups don't do well in GQ for the same reason casual players don't do well in QP or FW. Because you're always on a team of 12 and teamwork is OP so the team that uses the most teamwork tends to win. GQ has a higher expectation for teamwork.

This is literally no different from any other team-based shooter since Battlefield 1942.

World of Tanks, War Thunder, Armored Warfare and World of Warships all have the same dynamic. In every game a coordinated team will absolutely stomp a team that doesn't coordinate. Stop pretending MWO is somehow unique gameplay-wise just because it has mechs. It isn't.

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

You'll notice I also said that 'you have to play on the same field and by the same rules as everyone else.' There is no way to say 'well, these guys make bad choices in the mech bay, don't use teamwork and one of them plays on a joystick. It's okay for them to 3man in QP. These other guys though, they understand how the mechbay works, they communicate and make good choices. They don't get to'. If you allow 2-3mans in QP then anyone and everyone gets to play 2-3mans in QP - which will result in those casuals still getting crushed by the people who communicate and make good choices.

What you're saying would make sense if the game gave absolutely no consideration to player skill when it teams players up. However broken the MM is, that's not the game we are playing. If a 2-man group is lousy at MWO, that should be reflected in their rating and who they are set up against. Same as solo players. Thus every 2-man group should be matched against a roughly equally skilled 2-man group.

If the MM is broken, that's a problem with the MM. The solution is fixing the MM.

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:18 AM, said:

As I said. You're not actually asking for small casual groups in QP. You're asking to let 'Just me and a couple of my friends group up in QP and play in a group vs pugs consistently, but nobody who is better than us should get to do so'.

Groups of 2-3 do great in group queue all the time. Quit trying to get the game skewed to give you an advantage you have not earned.

For the N'th time, this isn't about winning or losing or getting an advantage. I couldn't care less. I care about being able to play with a friend without having to spend most of our time staring at loading screen.

I also care about this game attracting and retaining more players, because that's the only way it's going to keep itself populated and playable to all of us. Shafting newbies who want to play casually with friends is not the way to achieve that.

And don't worry, once they will fix the MM you will not have to suffer the teams of insufferable potatoes that would mean at lower tiers.

MischiefSC, on 15 June 2018 - 06:22 AM, said:

So you want to attract more people to reduce queue times? Reduce tonnage restrictions for larger teams, especially 8-12. 12mans are rare but they fill the matchmaker, that's for sure. More people dropping in 8-10mans will create more opportunities to fill 2-3mans.

There you go. Shorter wait times is a great idea. You get that by more people playing. In group queue the population deciled due to making it unenjoyable to drop in a larger group. It functionally forces you to go full tryhard mode every single match if you're more than 6 people.

More players also improves the ability of the matchmaker to build balanced matches.

Or allow solo players to join the group queue to fill in the gaps.

[a le Roi]

justcallme A S H, on 15 June 2018 - 06:43 AM, said:

Are you truly, truly, that lacking of basic common sense?

If so then yeah - create these topics weekly.

If not - stop.

I am not creating these topics weekly.

That other people are requesting the same thing on a continuous basis should maybe alert you to the fact that there is something that needs fixing.

[MischiefSC]

Every other team based game has the exact same issues. The solution is a higher population.

At this point though I think we're all just going in circles. There is no point in which groups will be allowed back into QP. It would void a huge chunk of players from MWO (again) and do absolutely nothing to keep 'casual' (in the context of 'bad', because I consider myself a casual player and while I win a bit more often in QP when I'm trying to carry I still win more than I lose in GQ in a 2-4man and I know I'm not alone; GQ is full of small groups that win plenty often) from getting smashed.

Let teams take more tonnage in bigger groups and bigger groups will play more often and be less pressured to go full tryhard mode. I've always been in favor of letting solo players drop in GQ. However there's not going to be groups in the solo queue. It's been done and why it's a terrible idea has been repeatedly explained.

a le Roi, on 15 June 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

I am not creating these topics weekly.

That other people are requesting the same thing on a continuous basis should maybe alert you to the fact that there is something that needs fixing.

Yep. It's the same group that's usually saying LRMs are OP. Players have bad ideas all the time. That doesn't mean their bad idea is a solution. The lack of a functioning matchmaker in GQ is certainly a problem - the solution is more total players in GQ. You do that by making it more interesting to the majority - which is to say, the bigger groups. You also rewind time and don't do 1 Bukkit for FW, don't do Long Tom, don't make the steep tonnage limits GQ has and you roll back pretty much all the weapon balance changes since the Kodiak came out - save fixing the CUAC10 ghost heat bug and probably a few minor things.

Then you'd go back to having enough players to fill the GQ sufficiently to have a matchmaker in it.

[Nightbird]

What you actually want is fair teams, not 2-3 player teams in QP Solo queue. If you agree, bump my thread here: https://mwomercs.com...-dynamic-teams/

[East Indy]

There are many singular players with one friend they'd like to introduce to MWO — but most don't bother because the only venues for two players are dominated by zero-error-margin, meta-heavy play.

As a result, the best source for new players remains untapped.

Limit to two-man parties, and balance parties between teams. *

Ultimately, group queue and faction play should be consolidated. Group queue, which long-preceded "community warfare," is a playground for stat-padding and without any connection to the war map, diverting from MWO's original premise.

* Despite what you may remember pre-2014, mixed groups and singles were never balanced in size or number.