864 replies to this topic

[Haipyng]

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 01:36 PM, said:

Always the same. "Me and my couple of friends are the largest group size that should be allowed in solo queue". Whatever size that happens to be.

So much salt and vinegar in your wall of text. Basically your answer is "git gud", you must suck and casuals made PGI make bad choices about GP. All non-solutions to the problem presented, so basically "like it". Compelling arguments..

I'm not going to argue over 4 mans. I don't want the return of 4 mans. I'd like to see a return of something fun for very small groups. Of course with all the new players clamoring to play we don't really need to do much different.

[AEgg]

People in this thread seem confused.

We already had groups in 'solo queue', up until a few years ago, there was just one queue. Eventually group sizes got limited to 4, but that was still more than enough to swing games.

Originally, the biggest advantage groups had that solos did not was VoIP. It wasn't built into the game so it was literally impossible to communicate with teammates other than typing (there was no command wheel either), which is very slow, so groups had a huge advantage there.

[Xetelian]

I'm all for putting 2 mans in solo queue.

[Cloves]

Thing is, there is already a place for group play. Groups of competitive folks may make it less than fun for casuals there, but it exists. You don't want to play in it because either 1. there is a long wait, or 2. you will get stomped. There is a long wait because not that many folks want to play in a environment that competitive, where they feel forced to make and train with a large group in order to do well. Low population leads to a long wait. So instead you want to bypass the line and ride in the solo que. Problem is that even two man teams lead to an advantage. This will cause an already shaky matchmaker trouble, and lead to even more stomps, which is an issue that is driving folks away. So you want to have fun with your buddies at the expense of the general solo population. Yes, I understand it sucks to feel like you cannot play with your friends, but you can, and you want to reduce others enjoyment for your own convenience.

So you have options under the current system: You can run private matches, and invite as many folks out there as you want to join you. You can join the group que. You can join a larger unit.

You are asking them to alter a system that is already strained and broken, using limited resources. Please consider making a private league night and adding to our community rather than pushing others away from our last popular, fun que.

[MischiefSC]

Haipyng, on 14 June 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

So much salt and vinegar in your wall of text. Basically your answer is "git gud", you must suck and casuals made PGI make bad choices about GP. All non-solutions to the problem presented, so basically "like it". Compelling arguments..

I'm not going to argue over 4 mans. I don't want the return of 4 mans. I'd like to see a return of something fun for very small groups. Of course with all the new players clamoring to play we don't really need to do much different.

Except group queue is fun for small groups. It was always fun for small groups. It also used to be fun for big grouos. That's why group queue has a way bigger population then. I have fun in group queue, especially in groups under 6.

People act like "git gud" is an insult or brush off. It's not. It's a solution and one everyone who is beating you at the game has already adopted. If you're frustrated at losing quit trying to get the game changed to make doing whatever you're doing that's losing suddenly work better. Get better at the game.

Group queue is fun for smaller groups. You can have great fun in a 2-6 man. Max your tonnage and make sure you're using in game comms. If it looks lime a 12man on the other side, great! You've got a 200-300 ton advantage. Good players are not complaining that group queue is no fun for small groups because they still win plenty in group queue. The only problem with running a smaller group in group queue is when you drop alongside a 3man who all took lights and mediums and don't coordinate with the team so you're down tonnage and useful teammates.

There is no game mechanic changes that make up for poor choices in the mechlab and the match. There's no fair and balanced fix that lets people who don't want to get good at the game play against people who do and not get smashed.

You're always in a team of 12 on either side. No communication or coordination is available to one side and not the other. The only side restricted from what they bring is the side with the bigger premade.

Stop the special pleading. Play the game by the same rules everyone else does, use the same tools everyone else gets and win or lose based on your ability and willingness to do so effectively.

[Draven Knightfall]

In answer to the OP, they should. They absolutely should, just as you should ignore the shortsighted forum heroes that can't fathom a queue that puts one or two pre-mades up to 4 on one team and matches them on the other before filling the rest. It's literally what every other game does. It's so simple to do it's stupid. I understand calling PGI out on many things, but this is well within their realm of control.

They should have done it back at game launch and used it to springboard group play into CW and competitive, but they missed that boat. But letting small groups up to 4 queue together under the QP banner? It's too simple and something that is still badly needed. The only reason that I can think that it isn't done already is because it would all but kill off what remains of group queue, but that's a population problem. They have the MW:5 hail Mary to try to recover from that, assuming they can finally get this boat righted.

Edited by Draven Knightfall, 14 June 2018 - 05:21 PM.

[0bama care]

No. Keep your kind in cw/fp

[Cloves]

Draven Knightfall, on 14 June 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

In answer to the OP, they should. They absolutely should, just as you should ignore the shortsighted forum heroes that can't fathom a queue that puts one or two pre-mades up to 4 on one team and matches them on the other before filling the rest. It's literally what every other game does. It's so simple to do it's stupid. I understand calling PGI out on many things, but this is well within their realm of control.

They should have done it back at game launch and used it to springboard group play into CW and competitive, but they missed that boat. But letting small groups up to 4 queue together under the QP banner? It's too simple and something that is still badly needed. The only reason that I can think that it isn't done already is because it would all but kill off what remains of group queue, but that's a population problem. They have the MW:5 hail Mary to try to recover from that, assuming they can finally get this boat righted.

It’s almost like you are wearing a badge you slept through. They used to have groups and solos together, it did not work. The MW:5 Hail Mary will not change lessons they have already learned.

[Mystere]

Draven Knightfall, on 14 June 2018 - 05:21 PM, said:

In answer to the OP, they should. They absolutely should, just as you should ignore the shortsighted forum heroes that can't fathom a queue that puts one or two pre-mades up to 4 on one team and matches them on the other before filling the rest. It's literally what every other game does. It's so simple to do it's stupid. I understand calling PGI out on many things, but this is well within their realm of control.

They should have done it back at game launch and used it to springboard group play into CW and competitive, but they missed that boat. But letting small groups up to 4 queue together under the QP banner? It's too simple and something that is still badly needed. The only reason that I can think that it isn't done already is because it would all but kill off what remains of group queue, but that's a population problem. They have the MW:5 hail Mary to try to recover from that, assuming they can finally get this boat righted.

You are a founder. You should know that there was one single queue in the beginning. You should also know the problems that caused.

You are a founder.

Edited by Mystere, 14 June 2018 - 05:45 PM.

[El Bandito]

2 man group can be included in SQ, with a couple of conditions, but I wouldn't want groups bigger than that.

[Xetelian]

Have you ever tried finding a game in group queue at 3am pacific on all 3 servers selected with a group of 6 or less? Get 3 buddies and stay up late (or get up early) and try it out.


Also, grab a friend, and drop against EmP, 228, Eyez, C-XF, ect. 8 times in a row and see if you can get your friends to come back. Having 2 man potato groups in solo-ish queue would make it so you don't end up with 8-9 assaults on one team.




Count the assaults on the enemy team.

9

At least we killed 3 of the 4 Deathstrikes.

Edited by Xetelian, 14 June 2018 - 06:28 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

And it was basically a week since this topic came up last.

Seems it's weekly appearance is right on cue.


Will not happen, ever. So stop posting about it.

[MischiefSC]

Xetelian, on 14 June 2018 - 06:25 PM, said:

Have you ever tried finding a game in group queue at 3am pacific on all 3 servers selected with a group of 6 or less? Get 3 buddies and stay up late (or get up early) and try it out.


Also, grab a friend, and drop against EmP, 228, Eyez, C-XF, ect. 8 times in a row and see if you can get your friends to come back. Having 2 man potato groups in solo-ish queue would make it so you don't end up with 8-9 assaults on one team.




Count the assaults on the enemy team.

9

At least we killed 3 of the 4 Deathstrikes.

You are entirely mistaken.

Group Queue is impossible to win at if you're not in an 8man or bigger.

IMPOSSIBLE.

Except that being in a smaller group gives such a tonnage advantage that some teams try to split up and sync drop in smaller groups.

Even two mans in pug queue would screw balance in pug queue and screw up matchmaking in pug queue and screw up wait times in pug queue. Population imbalance in 2mans would be an issue, effectively representing tier/matchmaker value would be an issue.

It also wouldn't really change anything aside from introducing more stomps into QP as matches are quickly swayed by which team has the better 2man. Or are you saying match them in unlimited numbers, or just 1 2man per side? Each is full of its own issues.

Small groups win all the time. The problem with group queue is the low population makes matchmaking impossible so you get huge skill imbalances. If you're a bad player you are almost guaranteed to be on the bad side of that imbalance. In QP you're just one terribad so they're probably good players there carrying you so you feel like you're not really that bad. When you're in group queue with other bads you're a bundle of bads and there's likely not goods enough to carry all of you, so a 12man of even mediocre players will smash you.

Rather than dragging the problem to QP, just take bigger mechs and work on communication and winning and you'll win more. Like everyone else does.

[Summon3r]

been asking this for years.

if 2 mans could play in solo (which wouldnt be called solo then) id come back to the game....

of course if pub que stock mode was brought in id come back as well, along with many many others.

[justcallme A S H]

MischiefSC, on 14 June 2018 - 06:55 PM, said:

You are entirely mistaken.

Group Queue is impossible to win at if you're not in an 8man or bigger.

IMPOSSIBLE.

Mischief dude, I like you, but lately you are sooo far off the planet it is getting silly. I have won more games in a 4-man (against 8mans) in GroupQ than I have lost... By a very long margin.

I often lose more games in a 8man+ because of tonnage to better 4-mans. You gotta be super organised for 8man+ and be able to win. I mean I've done that plenty as well but what you have said there is just plain off the marker dude, way way off.

[Yosharian]

Haha no.

[LordBraxton]

Haha yes.

I play games with my IRL friends, Ive had around a dozen mates try MWO. They get stomped in the group queue, doing 100 damage while I do 600, and when I explain to them that the enemy team literally had top tier competitive players on it and the only way to play with people in their skill level is to play ALONE....

Well lets just say none of my friends play MWO.

This game has catered to no-friends old dudes for too long

[Wil McCullough]

Mwo has a really bad new player experience. And the inability to drop together is one of those reasons. Dropping together exposes the new.player to way better players with way better skill and understanding of the game. The outcome is always the same - they get smashed.

Unfortunately opening qp up to 2 man groups also opens the doors to duos of good players to also come in and smash these new player duos. Hard. We had this before. It was not a fun experience. That's why pgi split the queues.

You see the same problem in games like diablo 3. Experienced player brings a new player into the game and they can't run content together unless the experienced player deliberately runs underleveled content, nerfing his own drops and exp in the process.

Mwo has it worse because it's a pvp game. If a pve game like d3 can't make it work, there's no way a pvp game like mwo can do it. It's a ****** situation but unfortunately, there's no solution.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

justcallme A S H, on 14 June 2018 - 06:54 PM, said:

And it was basically a week since this topic came up last.

Seems it's weekly appearance is right on cue.


Will not happen, ever. So stop posting about it.

Note that the op hasn't chimed in since about page two, either. I don't know if these people really want this or its just a troll move.

Anyway, I'll see y'all next week.

[Vellron2005]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 06:33 AM, said:

Currently, if you're in a group of 2-4 people, like you would be if you're just playing quick play with a couple of friends, the wait times can be insanely long.

10-15 minutes for a match that lasts a few minutes is not viable in the long run, as it discourages playing with friends vs. playing solo.

Meanwhile, that group of 2-4 in a random quick play match would not be terribly unbalancing. A solo player with a mic and charisma can cause far more lopsided results in quick play than a small band of merry friends that don't communicate with the rest of the team.

So, in short, enabling those 2-4 person groups to play in the same queue as solo players would
1) Shorten wait times for all
2) Make quick play matches no less balanced
3) Increase the game's attractiveness, which would eventually help with the player base

Please consider making that change, for your sake and for the sake of all of us non-unit players.

I suggested having 2-man groups in Solo Que just a couple days ago..