864 replies to this topic

[Anastasius Foht]

Eisenhorne, on 14 June 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Most players calling for a push are bad at the game

Lol? Are you ok? Have any statistic on that statement? Or you just see word "push" and trigger? I called for push when, for example, placed my mech/group of mechs behind enemy line, and if we start shoot they simple turn around and kill us, BUTH if i call for "Push" to rest of my team we kill 2-3 enemy from behind before they even realise what happened, how its a bad thing?

[Haipyng]

Besh, on 14 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

The amount of times where the rest of the Team simply stays cowering behind cover NOT using the momentary advantage that Atlas handles to them on a Silver Platter is crazy, and the worst part of it is being called "bad at the Game" or "Stupid" when you are the Asssault Pilot, saw the opening, sacrifice your 'Mech, and your hidey-pokey Team just does not have the guts - or hand eye coordination, after all, moving AND shooting simultaneously is hard... - and blows it .

Roles died a horrible death ages ago.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 08:34 AM, said:

Like you and Aloha said, you can't prevent it (through sync dropping). So might as well make it official, so that the match maker can at least take those groups into account and balance them between both teams.

They tried that. It didn't work. MM has a hard time balancing groups in group queue and balancing solos in solo queue. So it's not hard to imagine that when it was "official," premade groups in the solo queue made the game decidedly unfun for people not in premade groups.

That's why we have what we have now, which is the way a vast majority of the community likes it and plays it and no matter how many times you post here that won't change because

1) You see how much push back you're getting, here? Count how many people support your idea and how many are against on this thread alone. That's what you're up against.

2) PGI rarely responds to activity on the forums anyway. Try tweeting Russ.

[Besh]

Haipyng, on 14 June 2018 - 08:55 AM, said:

Roles died a horrible death ages ago.

You obviously do not understand...and are wrong apart from that .

[Vesper11]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 14 June 2018 - 08:31 AM, said:

Finally, I'm pretty sure sync-dropping against the terms of use you signed when you made your account.

Sync-dropping is against ToS? Gotta check it, if it's true it's true then I'll have a good evening of sending those reports.

[Haipyng]

Besh, on 14 June 2018 - 09:00 AM, said:

You obviously do not understand...and are wrong apart from that .

My bad, quoted the wrong section. I don't disagree with you. I tend to want to fight at the front line and am often silly enough to push when called for and end up being one of a few that pushed and got burned down. Few people want to scout, or form up and share armor. People playing roles are rare and it is largely peek and shoot for maximum damage game these days.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 June 2018 - 09:36 AM.

[Haipyng]

Vesper11, on 14 June 2018 - 09:21 AM, said:

Sync-dropping is against ToS? Gotta check it, if it's true it's true then I'll have a good evening of sending those reports.

It might fall under this line from the COC:

Quote

Exploiting game bugs or mechanics to gain any unfair advantages or benefits, either for yourself, your teammates, or players on the opposing team.

Proving that it was intentional given the small population or that it truly gives you an advantage to you or your team is going to be an uphill battle I think.

[Eisenhorne]

Anastasius Foht, on 14 June 2018 - 08:52 AM, said:

Lol? Are you ok? Have any statistic on that statement? Or you just see word "push" and trigger? I called for push when, for example, placed my mech/group of mechs behind enemy line, and if we start shoot they simple turn around and kill us, BUTH if i call for "Push" to rest of my team we kill 2-3 enemy from behind before they even realise what happened, how its a bad thing?

To most players "push" seems to mean "suicide charge into the enemy lines". It works in pug groups sometimes because the enemy often tends to nascar away from it instead of making use of fire lanes to put down mechs charging them.

A coordinated brawl push CAN work, but it relies on your entire team doing it, your entire team having relatively equal skill levels (you can't have 1-2 good players at the point, because if they die leading the charge and you only have potatoes left you're screwed) and your entire team in good brawling mechs. You can guarantee precisely NONE of that in quick play, so brawl pushing then is usually a bad idea. If you're good (consistently hitting 300+ match score, 600+ damage) then you cannot risk dying because the potatoes are not going to be able to carry you. If you're a potato, then do whatever you want, it doesn't matter anyway.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 14 June 2018 - 10:00 AM.

[Mochyn Pupur]

. . . hmmm . . . . NO!

Yet more opportunities to further farm the solo queue and drive the game deeper and darker in the smelly brown stuff.

[Eisenhorne]

Besh, on 14 June 2018 - 08:45 AM, said:

That is very often the role of an Atlas, to act as a kind of "SiegeBreaker"...he charges ahead across unfavourable Terrain into a well established enemy position to do exactly that - draw concerted Fire onto himself, soak up as much damage as possible, so that his Teammates can hopefully focusfire and take down 3, 4 of the 'Mechs shooting at him . Ofc, even a lot of "T1" players do not really seem to understand that.

The amount of times where the rest of the Team simply stays cowering behind cover NOT using the momentary advantage that Atlas handles to them on a Silver Platter is crazy, and the worst part of it is being called "bad at the Game" or "Stupid" when you are the Asssault Pilot, saw the opening, sacrifice your 'Mech, and your hidey-pokey Team just does not have the guts - or hand eye coordination, after all, moving AND shooting simultaneously is hard... - and blows it .

No, see, that's a common misconception in the Atlas' role. It's job is to be a big threatening thing, and to draw fire. Ideally the Atlas is "cowering" behind cover, moving out of cover, firing off a few (hopefully very damaging) alpha strikes, and encouraging the enemy to focus on trying to kill him. He takes a few hits, backs into cover, and cools down. An Atlas has 150 front CT armor, and what, 60 front CT health? 210 total damage required to kill him. Unless the enemy team is bad, if he runs at a full enemy "siege" and tries to break it, 4 average laservomit salvos to the CT WILL KILL HIM. He will do nothing except die. Tank mechs do not exist in MWO.

The Atlas needs the heavier armor because he pokes in and out of cover slower than a heavy, because he weighs more and carries more weapons. Consider what an Atlas in cover, poking out and delivering alpha strikes, does for a team then. It provides a constant threat, so the enemy cannot blindly rush in and attack you, because there's a freaking Atlas there. It secures a flank. The enemy must always be paying attention to the cover the Atlas is behind as well, because if they ignore it, they're going to be eating some MRM/Gauss/AC salvos, which HURT. They are going to be wasting fire on arm / st shots as well, because it's much easier to shield your CT in an Atlas while you're moving lateral in relation to the enemy instead of right at it.

So yea, the Atlas and other assault mechs are supposed to be on the very front line, NEXT TO the enemy, causing a constant threat, causing them to pay constant attention to it. "Sacrificing" that for a small momentary advantage, that a non-coordinated team will not take advantage of anyway, is a very bad idea.

[Grus]

a le Roi, on 14 June 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

Your argument is based on the assumption that team work only happens with pre-made groups and that random teams don't coordinate.

It's false on both accounts. (And if it were true, MWO would fail as a team-based game.)

Random teams can and do coordinate. And random strangers can and do coordinate in small groups even if the team as a whole doesn't. The end result is that you do see a lot of coordinated team play in "solo" games - coordination which easily balances out any small pre-made groups.

Notice that I am *not* arguing for 6- or 8-man teams being allowed into mixed games with solo players.



That time "wasted" is time we would still spend actually playing instead of sitting idly in a queue.

Group queue matches are 75% waiting between matches rather than actually playing. I don't know about you, but I don't find that particularly rewarding, win or lose. The group queue matches really aren't that much better when it comes to team play than solo queue matches, at least for us "potatoes".

the assumption I'm working with here is either you're someone's alt trolling or you are in fact a new pilot....

With that said I'll go with the latter..

DO random 12 people use in game VOIP to coordinate who doing what and starts sure. Does it happen all the time no, and not to any really effect. Now throw in a 2 man team that KNOWS each other's build, how they play, and can predict what they will do in X situation without saying a word.. with 10 other players that will follow thier lead/meat shield..and you want to throw that aganced a complete random group of 12 people who have NO idea what the other 11 people on their team are packing, let alone thier skill level...

It's asking them to just get murderd... imho...

[AzureRathalos]

I have seen a Grinner and two Locusts quickly take the long way around a map, find a couple of mechs that were lagging behind the enemy team and assassinate them by coring out back CT with synchronized pinpoint alpha strikes.

Sure, this is an extreme example, but imagine such a team running around in Solo Queue.

[Grus]

AzureRathalos, on 14 June 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

I have seen a Grinner and two Locusts quickly take the long way around a map, find a couple of mechs that were lagging behind the enemy team and assassinate them by coring out back CT with synchronized pinpoint alpha strikes.

Sure, this is an extreme example, but imagine such a team running around in Solo Queue.

THIS!^^^

[Grus]

I have a Direwolf that can 2 shot a Atlas.. 106 alpha... never charge with a Atlas...

[Tiewolf]

No! That is all there is to say. Even small groups can influence the outcome of games massively. This would be abused by the same players that are the reason why the waiting times in group queue are so long because everybody else left.

Edited by Tiewolf, 14 June 2018 - 10:50 AM.

[Haipyng]

Grus, on 14 June 2018 - 10:34 AM, said:

the assumption I'm working with here is either you're someone's alt trolling or you are in fact a new pilot....

With that said I'll go with the latter..

DO random 12 people use in game VOIP to coordinate who doing what and starts sure. Does it happen all the time no, and not to any really effect. Now throw in a 2 man team that KNOWS each other's build, how they play, and can predict what they will do in X situation without saying a word.. with 10 other players that will follow thier lead/meat shield..and you want to throw that aganced a complete random group of 12 people who have NO idea what the other 11 people on their team are packing, let alone thier skill level...

It's asking them to just get murderd... imho...

GP is full of this right now, except the effect is multiplied because you now have a large group which is much more likely to be competitive players, going up against multiple 2-3 mans which are more likely to be casual players like you find in QP. The two biggest reasons the dozen players I brought to play MWO didn't stay is the GP environment and costs involved with playing without grinding time. I think the frequent stomps of newbies in GP was the biggest reason, they couldn't win a match playing against competitive players. I have no doubt two players can influence (not win) a match, but with all things being equal with very small groups in either side it should be a far more minimal impact than people are suggesting.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 05:02 PM.

[Haipyng]

AzureRathalos, on 14 June 2018 - 10:38 AM, said:

I have seen a Grinner and two Locusts quickly take the long way around a map, find a couple of mechs that were lagging behind the enemy team and assassinate them by coring out back CT with synchronized pinpoint alpha strikes.

Sure, this is an extreme example, but imagine such a team running around in Solo Queue.

Sure, this happens a lot in QP. Many lights are geared for back stabbing these days (since scouting is sort of dead) and wolf packing lights together is a sound idea. This is more of an issue with the team leaving behind assaults than the fault of super-god-like-mech piloting skills of a few players dropping together. Those same players could sync drop or may have just randomly ran into each other just as easily.

Edited by Haipyng, 14 June 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Besh]

Haipyng, on 14 June 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

My bad, quoted the wrong section. I don't disagree with you. I tend to want to fight at the front line and am often silly enough to push when called for and end up being one of a few that pushed and got burned down. Few people want to scout, or form up and share armor. People playing roles are rare and it is largely peek and shoot for maximum damage game these days.

The only people who can change this are the Players .

Here and there you may experience a SoloQP Game full of People who know about Positioning, MAP control ( Overwatch) and all that other really nifty stuff the Game allows us to do ( just not many do ) . Those games are extraordinary in the way they pan out, and it really is a shame that for SO many Players, its either YOLO! rush or MurderBall/Nascar, and thats all there is to it . People even have the audacity to blame the Game/Devs for their incapability of doing more intricate Stuff, while its simply a matter of how we play it .

Edited by Besh, 14 June 2018 - 12:01 PM.

[AzureRathalos]

Oh, and on the topic of pushing or not pushing: I don't think it's about the player calling being bad or not. It's more about situation and positioning.

For example, there was this one round I had on the Tourmaline Desert where my team ended up splitting 50-50. I peeked around a corner, spotted a key detail, then backed off. I said four things into VOIP. "The enemy is walking through [That low valley slightly through the middle that the VIP-Mech often walks through]. If we hit them now, it's a pincer attack!" "Group in [LOCATION], push through here!" "Group in [LOCATION], follow me!" "PUSH NOW!" People listened (Teamwork OP, plz nerf.) and it was a 12:0 victory.

On the flipside, I've had a game on Frozen City where the most vocal players on the team wanted to cross and push into the nearest enemy formation. The thing is, they wanted to take the direct route down the middle with little cover. More than a couple of us advised against it. Those vocal players and the ones that followed them were shot to pieces from multiple angles. The people that took the longer route that had cover were then overwhelmed and run over. It was a 0:12 loss.