864 replies to this topic

[Nightbird]

Dogstar, on 04 July 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The person who's really doing some top level ignoring is _you_

I've coverted the points you raise already and so has at least one other person no more than a page or two back.

TLDR? Top players grouping up have almost no effect on the overwhelming majority of matches

There's enough nays in this thread to kill this, no matter how you may feel about it. It's over

[Damnedtroll]

Leone, on 14 June 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

Group queue, Invasion, Scouting, Even Solaris.

You have options. There is but Quickplay and Solaris for solo play.

Don't be greedy.

~Leone.

And you can drop with a team of two in Solaris anyway

[S O L A I S]

Dogstar, on 04 July 2018 - 09:18 AM, said:

The person who's really doing some top level ignoring is _you_

I've coverted the points you raise already and so has at least one other person no more than a page or two back.

TLDR? Top players grouping up have almost no effect on the overwhelming majority of matches

Except that has nothing to do with this particular's guys math and methodology is flawed.

You have not covered the points as you do not believe adding another variable would have an effect. The combinations of both tier and weight if this was implemented would be a lot. There is no way around concluding that it would have an impact on the solo queues wait times.

You also ignore why there is a separate group queue to begin with. People wanted them separated and teamwork has an enormous impact on the game. You can't say that two top players together wouldn't effect the game and now you are hanging your hat on the idea instead they won't effect but only a small number of matches. Even those small number of matches is good enough reason to say no as it would not be fair to those in said matches.

[MischiefSC]

Grus, on 03 July 2018 - 06:02 PM, said:

Just need EVIL to start posting and mods will kill it.

No, need someone to say something funny about EVIL. Saying EVIL is responsible for ruining MWO is fine. Making a casual, funny comment or pointing out that Clan Wolf is the worst players in the game and has always been so, that'll get the thread reported and closed in no time.

Just watch.

[Vesper11]

Mystere, on 04 July 2018 - 11:08 AM, said:

• In spite of 1-9, I still have some passion left for funposting.

ftfy

S O L A I S, on 04 July 2018 - 02:59 PM, said:

Except that has nothing to do with this particular's guys math and methodology is flawed.

Coming from a guy that

S O L A I S, on 29 June 2018 - 06:40 PM, said:

Why don't you just ask PGI for a God mod so you can finally do ok?

doesn't bother reading.
If anything is flawed is it's all those arguments where unlimited amount of boogeyman duos will make QP impossible to play so even all those people that actually have friends and don't want to experience the joy of GQ will not outweight the evilness of those boogeyman duos!

Edited by Vesper11, 04 July 2018 - 03:45 PM.

[S O L A I S]

Vesper11, on 04 July 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

ftfy

Coming from a guy that

doesn't bother reading.
If anything is flawed is it's all those arguments where unlimited amount of boogeyman duos will make QP impossible to play so even all those people that actually have friends and don't want to experience the joy of GQ will not outweight the evilness of those boogeyman duos!

It doesn't even take the top 1% to be the boogieman though. With matchmaker already forced to ease up on weight restrictions as well as using players from up to three tier range, having a bunch of top 10 percenters in groups or variations of and how to balance that against other small groups or lesser skilled groups adds complexity and hoops to jump through that is counter intuitive to what Paul laid out for what he was trying to do to get better quality matches, and keep wait times reasonable.

Read his post it is pinned and ask yourself if that guy sounds like someone who wants to add more things for matchmaker to try and sort out. Especially since he is reporting that the changes he made had the desired effect he was after.

You also seem to completely disregard those games that would be effected. No matter what the overall number of games are effected the point is that games will be effected. So it makes a good deal more sense from a fairness perspective to maintain solo queue as solo only.

Edited by S O L A I S, 04 July 2018 - 05:22 PM.

[Vxheous]

Vesper11, on 04 July 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

ftfy

Coming from a guy that

doesn't bother reading.
If anything is flawed is it's all those arguments where unlimited amount of boogeyman duos will make QP impossible to play so even all those people that actually have friends and don't want to experience the joy of GQ will not outweight the evilness of those boogeyman duos!

Bad 2 man duos can't do well in the group queue environment and think that being able to drop in an easier environment of solo queue will allow them to do better (probably true). Solo players are saying that duos shouldn't drop in solo queue because of the inherent advantage of coordination, even between two players. While the bad 2 man duos probably won't imbalance the solo queue, above average to the 99.9% type duos will absolutely imbalance the solo queue.

[S O L A I S]

Vxheous, on 04 July 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

Bad 2 man duos can't do well in the group queue environment and think that being able to drop in an easier environment of solo queue will allow them to do better (probably true). Solo players are saying that duos shouldn't drop in solo queue because of the inherent advantage of coordination, even between two players. While the bad 2 man duos probably won't imbalance the solo queue, above average to the 99.9% type duos will absolutely imbalance the solo queue.

Those of us familiar with what you and Audette can do together in CW fully appreciate what the implications are....at the same time I almost would like them to try it out for a week for the luls.

[Humpday]

I'm so confused, there is a dedicated GROUP queue for this? Its not THAT bad the you need to spill over to QP(it'll never happen), but I'm just saying...

Has GQ-QP gotten unbearable?

[justcallme A S H]

S O L A I S, on 04 July 2018 - 07:42 PM, said:

Those of us familiar with what you and Audette can do together in CW fully appreciate what the implications are....at the same time I almost would like them to try it out for a week for the luls.

They do it one handed too I bet...

Cause they in de luuuuurrrrvveee and holding each others hands while pwning everyone.

[The Lighthouse]

42 pages of arduous attempts to finally kill off Quick Play and thus also kill off this game altogether.......


.....do you guys really want this game to die or something?

Edited by The Lighthouse, 05 July 2018 - 12:19 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

The Lighthouse, on 05 July 2018 - 12:18 AM, said:

42 Pages of arduous attempts to finally kill off Quick Play and thus also kill off this game altogether.......

.....do you guys really want this game to die or something?

That's a bit rich coming from the guy that is trying to get Mix-Tech into the game that would, totally and utterly, break it also.

[The Lighthouse]

justcallme A S H, on 05 July 2018 - 12:20 AM, said:

That's a bit rich coming from the guy that is trying to get Mix-Tech into the game that would, totally and utterly, break it also.

Oh I doubt it. Mix-tech, at worst, may negatively affect most of good players who are very sensitive to balance changes, but no way it will affect bottom casual players. They are all firing LRMs all day anyway and may not even notice something has changed (except ghost heat changes in general.)


However, allowing group players into single queue is complete opposite. It actually won't affect most of good players; we will be getting good scores and cbills regardless.

But it will be extremely bad to most of casual players, and that will be fatal for this game's lifespan.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 05 July 2018 - 12:28 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Balance changes negatively affect good players? The crazy statements just keep coming...

It's the good players who will adapt best/first, always.

[Chados]

I can’t even believe this crap thread is still around.

And I’ve spent a good bit of time as part of a duo in the group queue. My drop partner was in a heavy and I was in a light, too-we even were leaving tonnage on the table because he wanted to run his LRM Orion-VA and I was doing the Flea challenge. And we still had good matches.

No, no, NO to duos in the solo queue.

[Bud Crue]

The Lighthouse, on 05 July 2018 - 12:18 AM, said:

.....do you guys really want this game to die or something?

Want it to die?
Perhaps that’s a bit too strong. But I for one no longer worry about it, and am actually starting to get resigned to it. Hell the other night in GQ we were discussing what to play when MWO folds. That has never come up in the last three years. So certainly there are at least some folks who are sort of expecting it, perhaps sooner rather than later.

Alas, between some of the historically ignorant and frankly, objectively bad ideas tossed around by the community of late (chain fire only, bring back energy draw, lets let groups into solo queue, mix-tech as a balance solution...see current front page for more), combined with PGI’s inability to filter the good ideas from the bad (see PGI’s justifications for proposed PTS), not to mention some of PGI’s more delusional behaviors of late (see stated reasonings from Russ for stockmode WC), and I gotta admit I no longer care nearly as much about the game’s eventual demise as I used to. A pity, that. But do I WANT it to die? I don’t think so, but its honestly kinda hard to say.

[MTier Slayed Up]

[Mystere]

Vesper11, on 04 July 2018 - 03:45 PM, said:

ftfy

Oh! I like funposting too. What's wrong with that?

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous, on 04 July 2018 - 05:18 PM, said:

Bad 2 man duos can't do well in the group queue environment and think that being able to drop in an easier environment of solo queue will allow them to do better (probably true). Solo players are saying that duos shouldn't drop in solo queue because of the inherent advantage of coordination, even between two players. While the bad 2 man duos probably won't imbalance the solo queue, above average to the 99.9% type duos will absolutely imbalance the solo queue.

Ironically they won't do better because inherently the whole concept would involve inflating the Elo/PSR/whatever value of the 2man - which would put the Siamese Potato Twins against teams that consisted almost entirely of players better than them.

When the skill curve looks like an upside down 'U' like it does here, the moment you're even moderately behind the mean then suddenly the great majority (probably 2/3rds or more, if it actually mattered you could do the math off the Jarls List) of players are better than you. When you get people like what we're talking about, the terribad twos, they're well below the mean and as such there isn't anything you can do to improve their odds. It would be as hard to get them a 'balanced' match as it is to get players from the Final Three MWOWC teams a 'balanced' match. The skill distribution in this game is pretty much 'A bunch of mediocre players, plus some outliers on each end'.

Because of that any significant advantage in QP is going to significantly skew the experience for everyone. The top 30% of players could totally skew the results for the bottom 70%, because most of that 30% will still play consistently with/against the other 70%.

The idea is terrible and will never happen. Well, hopefully. PGI did put in Long Tom and then ignore it for a year and a half. Doing something as stupid as this would gut the population - again. Then again, PGI has a history of terrible decisions and then ignoring them so who knows.

[kailii]

This thread really should have been killed while we still could...
Now it's too late - half an hour ago in QP:

https://imgur.com/a/6iTFIiY