657 replies to this topic

[denAirwalkerrr]

Daggett, on 26 June 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Maybe the game could still be fun and playable on a highly competitive level without such big and devastating hits while also minimizing the frustration potential for the less skilled crowd?

Yes. If they were to take Tarogato’s proposal and make PTS with it instead of this ****.

[Imperius]

Reno Blade, on 26 June 2018 - 11:22 AM, said:

Lol guys, you are over reacting and I can't decide if i want to laugh or cry...

Gauss Recoil less than HG breaking the game... are we playing the same game?
It will not even have ANY effect on the builds.

Either you fire your laser vomit like 0.2 sec after the Gauss, or you fire the Gauss when the Lasers are nearly done.
Oh, beam duration vs twisting you say? ...

...thats the goal here!
spreading out the huge Gauss+Laser alphas!


And don't tell me that a 3x ERML + Gauss medium will be unplayable with that.
Laughable.


I'd say, the Recoil should be used for all Ballistics (including IS).

While the Laser DMG nerf is a good step, I think we need also to link Large+Med lasers for both Clan and IS mechs!

If it has no effect then why make Gauss even more undesirable. I already don’t even play the game this just justifies my reason each pass.

Better yet just remove all guns let’s just hug guys!

[SneekiBreeki]

>Looks at this thread.
>Looks at all the bads trying to justify Chris' horrid "balancing" ideas because they can't be arsed to learn to play this game competently and would rather destroy it for everyone else to appease to their papermache egos.
>Sighs heavily.

I guess there's no saving this game, company and community.
If only Digital Extremes could buy out PGI or either a decent mech game be it Armored Core or whatever would actually come out (or if i could get to pilot actual mechs in bloody Warframe) i'd be more than happy to jump ship in a heart beat.

Daggett, on 26 June 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Maybe the game could still be fun and playable on a highly competitive level without such big and devastating hits while also minimizing the frustration potential for the less skilled crowd?

Hey, you know what would make the game fun for the spuds and competent players alike? Bloody PvE!
That's right, give the bads some dumb bots to bash upon and inflate their egos.

BAMF! Problem solved.

EDIT: Also before someone comes in and disregards the PvE idea as bad then i'll let you know this: many a mech game (I.E. Exteel and SD Gundam Online) in the past managed to keep both user bases (casuals and comps) hooked by having both PvP and PvE gamemodes.

Edited by SneekiBreeki, 26 June 2018 - 02:31 PM.

[TheOrphanator]

lazorbeamz, on 26 June 2018 - 02:09 PM, said:

With ridiculous hitscan laser damage to your CT 24/7.

Meanwhile your cannons at 250+ meters spread all over moving mechs.

Even right now sustained dps is better for clan laser boats compared to is laser boats thanks to clan DHS. Division 2 used to have a couple of top contenders usinn supernovas filled with like 9 clan med pulse.

Solaris isn't really a good measure for that. There aren't any good IS assaults in that division - that's why the SNV was playable. The duration of clan lasers at close range makes them pretty irrelevant compared to all the AC/20, LB-10X, and SRM boats on the IS side that just twist it off.

[Serial Number]

denAirwalkerrr, on 26 June 2018 - 02:24 PM, said:

Yes. If they were to take Tarogato’s proposal and make PTS with it instead of this ****.

But Chris' ideas are always great. Didn't you notice how clans are getting nerfed over and over since he became the balance boi? He won't stop untill clans are dead, he's nearly to accomplish his goal now.

[Imperius]

Fobhopper, on 26 June 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

Now what exactly are they killing for you? lack of context means nothing.

94 damage alpha may be fun to you, but instantly losing a torso or getting cored is not fun for whoever is on the receiving end. Especially when there is a damage disparity as significant as there currently is between IS and Clan. Toaster playstyle was nerfed because of alpha striking and lack of response from whoever was on the receiving end. There is always going to be a disparity between clan and freeborn, but we can look at the previous tukayyids, and Solaris meta mechs to see that there are significant balance issues between factions. I am not calling for perfect parity between the two, but something clearly needs to be done to tighten up the disparity of factions.

Dude I’ve used 2x ER-PPC 2x cGauss since I bought the Dire Wolf. I only Pilot assault mechs. Literally killed my play style and desire to play this game anymore. No point in arguing or trying to change things that are set in stone.

[Daggett]

SneekiBreeki, on 26 June 2018 - 02:26 PM, said:

Hey, you know what would make the game fun for the spuds and competent players alike? Bloody PvE!
That's right, give the bads some dumb bots to bash upon and inflate their egos.

BAMF! Problem solved.

I guess you may underestimate the amount of players who get bored by bots quickly and thus prefer PvP, but are not willing or able to invest the amount of time/training it needs to git gud...

[TheOrphanator]

Daggett, on 26 June 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

I guess you may underestimate the amount of players who get bored by bots quickly and thus prefer PvP, but are not willing or able to invest the amount of time/training it needs to git gud...

That's what tier 5 is for. Players worse than bots!

[SneekiBreeki]

Daggett, on 26 June 2018 - 02:34 PM, said:

I guess you may underestimate the amount of players who get bored by bots quickly and thus prefer PvP, but are not willing or able to invest the amount of time/training it needs to git gud...

Then just stop catering to them since they are the source of their very own problems.

People want to play against competent players and win? Then have them git gud instead of handing the trophy out to them without even spending a minimal amount of effort in turning on their bloody braincells and learning how to play the game at a competent level (and by competent i mean at least adequate to be able to survive and get decent scores).

Edited by SneekiBreeki, 26 June 2018 - 02:42 PM.

[TheOrphanator]

SneekiBreeki, on 26 June 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Then just stop catering to them since they are the source of their very own problems.

People want to play against competent players and win? Then have them git gud instead of handing the trophy out to them without even spending a minimal amount of effort in turning on their bloody braincells and learning how to play the game at a competent level (and by competent i mean at least adequate to be able to survive and get decent scores).

A lot of people will never get good. There are mechdads that just can't. We should absolutely cater to these people as they are as much a part of this game as we are, HOWEVER, we should NEVER balance around them.

[SneekiBreeki]

That's what i meant by catering, just don't balance around them. :U

[Serial Number]

Fobhopper, on 26 June 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

Now what exactly are they killing for you? lack of context means nothing.

94 damage alpha may be fun to you,

???? 94 alpha can be only dealt by like 2 mechs in the game, and that is Dire wolf and Death Strike. Yet the gauss and the lasers are being nerfed only thanks to those 2 mechs. Lacking sth still?

[SPNKRGrenth]

This all feels like a willful act of sabotage on PGIs part, just so they can go "see, we tried PTS like you said, and you just hated us even more for it, so it doesn't work". Nevermind a big list of carefully weighed and thought out suggested changes was dropped right in their laps that would be perfect to test on a PTS, nope, don't use that, create more strife and division instead.

[Raythe 71]

first off........WHO THE HELL USES CLAN GAUSS?! the only thing meta about hte clans is the lasers.

Second off: its NOT the amount of damage the clan lasers dish out that is the problem. It's how long they can sustain it! their DPS is crazy with the lasers, and since they have no ammo, they can keep up with IS ballistics...

I suggest raising the general amount of heat that clan lasers dish out. let them keep their high alpha, but make them be smarter about it. Make it so I can dodge one or two alphas, and know they are at their heat limit, and I get my opening to go in and take care of the probelm. Right now, with Large lasers especially, a good clan sniper can cut off sections of the map from the enemy team. and a full team of clan lasers is just ridiculous. even if you close the gap, they just keep firing and firing, no ***** given. You just don't get an opening, and there for Armor on the IS side is paramount. I never feel like I can run a mech in faction play unless it is right near max armor points, simply because i know the clan laser vomit isn't going to give me an opening to take advantage of. and then i have to ton down on weapons and ammo.

clans don't need less damage. clans don't need more ghost heat. Unless BOTH clandx and IS get a recoil, I don't see how that will change anything (would be a great way to tone down the dual heavy Guass meta build for IS),

Clans out range, and they should. they specialize in pouring on a BLAST of damage before the IS can get into their weapon range. But then their burst is out, and it takes some great maneuvering and tactics as a clanner to dance away the heat until you can fire safely again. Thats how it should be,.

Just increase the general Laser heat SLIGHTLY, wouldn't even be that much, and then give them useful ballistics

[TheOrphanator]

The heat is already pretty overwhelming, it's just the coolshots that allow them to be up seemingly all the time.

[Vxheous]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

There's a big difference between mechs with an 80+ alpha at 300m and an 80+alpha at 800m. I get the logic behind the idea.

I'm not sure a small recoil to Clan gauss is going to kill all those builds any more than the huge recoil on 2xHGauss kills those builds.

I appreciate that it's being done on a PTS. I think the primary focus needs to be the CLasers; if the change to CGauss seems like it's a bit of a nerf but manageable however CGauss is otherwise bad because of health then buff health on CGauss.

No mech has 80+ alpha at 800m, stop with the exaggerations. At 800m, you have 2 gauss + 2ERLL (for 52 damage). You don't get 80 alphas until you get within 500m or less. The anni can match that alpha at about the same range.

[AcidBuu]

If you going to lower dmg and adjust heat cooldown and duration be carefull not to buff them we don't want that happening! While you are at it at least let me fire 3 lan er large lasers at the same time without ghostheat since you haven't taken that into account yet.

Edited by AcidBuu, 26 June 2018 - 03:09 PM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Asking PGI to stop nerfing something is like telling your abusive girlfriend to stop cheating on you.

[Daggett]

SneekiBreeki, on 26 June 2018 - 02:41 PM, said:

Then just stop catering to them since they are the source of their very own problems.

People want to play against competent players and win? Then have them git gud instead of handing the trophy out to them without even spending a minimal amount of effort in turning on their bloody braincells and learning how to play the game at a competent level (and by competent i mean at least adequate to be able to survive and get decent scores).

Who said that bad players should have a chance against better and more competitive ones when MM fails to separate them?

Please try to read my whole post again. I only asked if it's necessary for the game to have builds being able to one-shot mediums and cripple heavies whenever those do even small mistakes.

For big mistakes like running into firelines sure, they deserve to die quickly because it don't take much skill to learn how to avoid those situations.
But to avoid the smaller ones it takes a LOT of time learning and improving the majority of players will not be able to take.

Reducing high alphas has nothing to to with catering to or balancing the game around low-skill players. A bad player still loses the peeking or brawling game to a better one if he gets hit by 40 pts alphas to the same critical location three times in a row while he is only hitting once spreading the damage to different components because the better one knows how to twist.

The only difference would be that the better player probably takes some return damage too because he has to expose more often which may limit his ability to carry hard in QP. Which in turn may not be that bad for a team-based shooter.

My question is if the competitive gameplay is so much better and enriched with high alphas that it justifies the frustration those alphas can cause on lower tiers? As far as i know no competitive player would even run the mythical 94pts build, so why do we need it?

Edited by Daggett, 26 June 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Stinger554]

Arjohan, on 26 June 2018 - 02:08 PM, said:

Did you watch the video?

Did you?

Because we already know that current levels of clan laservom are too strong; especially compare to IS counterparts. So all buffing everything else up to that level does is invoke powercreep because now everything shifts upwards in a never ending loop of bigger damage numbers and HP buffs to offset those.

Current average TTK would drop significantly if everything was buffed up to clan laservom levels and current TTK is decent not too fast and not a slug-fest; excluding under and over performers.