463 replies to this topic

[Weeny Machine]

ShiverMeRivets, on 05 July 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

I'll tell you why I hate all 20 tonners. It is my opinion, but I suspect some may share it.

I came to this game to play Mechs - you know, giant robots that stomp on cars, break buildings and fire BFGs Howitzer heavy artillery-calibre guns at each other. What I did not want to play or fight against are things slightly bigger than Marvel's Ironman that go up to 3 times my speed, yet kill me just as quickly as a big F'ing Mech with Howitzers.

Let me ask who shares the following sentiment:
When I get shaked by an AC20 my 1st thought is an angry "who did that?!".
When I hear that pling pling MG sound, my 1st thought is "OMG I an going to die".
Shouldn't that be reversed?

I am sorry but if you die to a light mech as fast as if you face another heavy or assault, then you are the problem and not the mech.
As I already said:
- get some back armour (which should already be enought) & practice turning while walking backwards and counter turning and turn immediately when you hear the pings.

- don't use just laser boats (lasers aren't the best weapons against lights)

- spec into crit reduction

- and if everything fails get a streak launcher to deter them or play a streak boat when you want to show your desperation openly


You will still die to lights. There are simply better pilots. However, should you win against a better player simply because you chose to play with a heavier mech? Clearly not. Nevertheless that is what most people expect.

[Racerxintegra2k]

poltergoost, on 05 July 2018 - 03:31 AM, said:

Wow!!! 6 kills!?!? 700 damage!!!!!

I've never, ever seen any other mech get a score like that

Funny guy over here, a 20 ton mech wiping out an entire enemy lance in under a minute thats normal ? Its the Speed in which you can core someone out with 12 machine guns that i find ridiculous . Tall mechs cant even hit you if you leg hump.

[Weeny Machine]

Racerxintegra2k, on 05 July 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Funny guy over here, a 20 ton mech wiping out an entire enemy lance in under a minute thats normal ? Its the Speed in which you can core someone out with 12 machine guns that i find ridiculous . Tall mechs cant even hit you if you leg hump.

You leg humb and shoot simultanously in their back? You are sure you didn't wipe out the whole enemy company?

Average match score 213
K/D ratio 1.4
Games played 22

Man, somehow your awesomeness and OPness of the PIR isn't really registered by PGI's system

Edited by Bush Hopper, 05 July 2018 - 06:51 AM.

[Funky Bacon]

I agree with the title, the Piranha is very broken after taking a salvo or two from my PPC boats or other heavy projectile weapon mechs.

[Agent of Change]

Well plenty of these threads so i'll just say my piece once and then not comment again on this subject.

The Pirhana is broken, but before you start with the inane defenses just listen.

The Pirhana was ALWAYS going to be broken in MWO, why? (No this isn't a PGI made teh namesake Op on purpose comment) It was always going to be broken because of a combination of factors present in MWO.

1. Small mechs have spotty hit boxes at best making it difficult to land full damage anywhere except on a stationary light mech. not impossible, but difficult enough to make it harder to kill them than would otherwise seem likely.

2. Hit registration in MWO is spotty at best especially when moving, HSR has made moving targets even more spotty. this combined with 1. (small targets and tiny hitboxes that don't always act right) creates a genuine technical reason soem of these mechs are hard to kill even with good aim in some circumstances.

3. MG's are the problem, except they kinda aren't... they become the problem (like most weapons can become) when you stack 12 of them together. And unlike all other weapons in the game they generate 0 heat and can put out serious DPS Especially against open internals thanks to a silly high crit rating.

So yeah all of these foreseeable factors should have told anyone paying attention that the Pirhana was destined to be a pain in the *** mech. And the only sin the Pirhana really committed was that it's implementation highlights some real problems combined together. But the fix i mean there are a lot of not good options, but mostly it comes down to IMO dealing with MG's in a way that doesn't remove their primary utility (shredding an open component) while tempering their value as extended dps vehicles (bursts of 3+ seconds).

I don't like heat as an option anymore so i'm leaning towards a jam chance. Give MG's a 2 second period of no jam fire followed by high and increasing jam chance for extended fire until they "cool off". Give them a reasonably quick cool off period say 1 second. Don't change damage for anything else. This allows MG's to still shred open components. There is almost nothing a 12 MG pirhana couldn't kill if the component is open in 2 seconds. but it requires an enforced hit and run mind set and make MG's less able to just chew through exterior armor but doesn't do anything to reduce their efficacy in their actual role... ripping up internals.

[Nightbird]

2 seconds to kill something with open components? Wow. Know how much my heavies and assaults need? 0.1 seconds.

[Guile Votoms]

[Mad Dog Morgan]

If you can’t accept that a smaller mech can kill you, then you probably shouldn’t play the game. If you refuse to at least try to play the mech that killed you, and claim it’s OP, while you also are running off of anecdotal fallacies and using a bad argument; you don’t have a reason to complain at this point.

Man up and quit bu-bu-ing about a light mech you can sneeze at and kill if you aim well.

[Abaddun]

I would just like to point out that this would have never been a problem if the Piranha was an IS mech using IS tech.

[Battlemaster56]

Abaddun, on 05 July 2018 - 07:54 AM, said:

I would just like to point out that this would have never been a problem if the Piranha was an IS mech using IS tech.

Oh how wrong you are, players will whine about anything stupid especially if it some light that doing good. That's a huge no no in their books.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 05 July 2018 - 08:01 AM.

[Abaddun]

Battlemaster56, on 05 July 2018 - 08:01 AM, said:

Oh how wrong you are, players will whine about anything stupid especially if it some light that doing good. That's a huge no no in their books.

I'm sure time will vindicate me when we see the flea released for C-bills, there will be no-where near this level of controversy. IS light mechs may be faster, but the firepower they bring is paltry to what clan mechs can bring. This has contributed to the rise of the arctic cheetah whilst every other IS light mech, some of which were staples, fade in obscurity. Compared to how many arctic Cheetahs we see, there are a paltry number of jenners, Ravens, Panthers and firestarters in the field. Regardless of the rescaling, Clan light mechs are significantly more prominent over IS light mechs.

[Prototelis]

Racerxintegra2k, on 05 July 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

Funny guy over here, a 20 ton mech wiping out an entire enemy lance in under a minute thats normal ? Its the Speed in which you can core someone out with 12 machine guns that i find ridiculous . Tall mechs cant even hit you if you leg hump.

It didn't happen in under a minute, that's hyperbole. Not being able to hit crotch huggers is ********. Unlock your arms, lock your target, put the small circle in the big red box; profit. If you are getting crotch hugged to death it's because you're out of position, are going to die soon anyways, or the light in question is heavily damaged.

Either way, it's a stupid thing to cry about. Why shouldn't a light be able to use it's mobility and small size as an advantage? Oh yeah, because lights should be garbage and all die at the sight of a bigger mech.

I smashed an entire lance on your team the other day with the flea in about 4 minutes. Is the flea op too?

Abaddun, on 05 July 2018 - 08:14 AM, said:

IS light mechs may be faster, but the firepower they bring is paltry to what clan mechs can bring.

The wombo-combo 17 is spitting out close to or better than 10dps before it overheats, and it does it the entire match. The problem with "staple" is lights is that they all got ****** in the rescale.

I'm pretty sure the flea will be nerfed, not because because of its good dps, but because of its agility.

But it's an is mech, so they're just going to **** over the weapons and buff some other random chassis .

Edited by Prototelis, 05 July 2018 - 09:18 AM.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Bush Hopper, on 05 July 2018 - 06:49 AM, said:

You leg humb and shoot simultanously in their back? You are sure you didn't wipe out the whole enemy company?

Average match score 213
K/D ratio 1.4
Games played 22

Man, somehow your awesomeness and OPness of the PIR isn't really registered by PGI's system

I love having a Clan Alt account.

PS: I'm not sure who's stats you pulled up they are not mine...
.
Average match score 278
K/D ratio 1.61
Games played 25

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 05 July 2018 - 09:04 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

UnofficialOperator, on 04 July 2018 - 11:57 PM, said:

Alright fine Pir is OP.

Saw someone pilot a Flea and imo way better than Pir 1. The Flea is like the Tie Fighter to the Pir's X-wing

Wish I had it.

Edit: Pir is potato masher T3 and below. Usually they got no clue why they blowing up

Flea is bae, Piranha is for poseurs.

Also Piranha is definitely the TIE in this arrangement, being on the evil side and all.

[Prototelis]

It's also a lot easier to isolate hitboxes from the front or back as opposed to the flea.

The flea is just as powerful in its own way, but has a higher skill ceiling.

Yeonne's wombo-combo gets you like 10dps before it overheats, and you can alpha like 5 times before that happens.

And the peeps in this thread who say the PIR is bad at light fighting are wrong, it sucks at fighting a few lights and absolutely smashes the rest, because like I've been saying most of the lights in this game are flaming garbage.

[MischiefSC]

The problem is that lights have been **** for so long that there's this impression that it's okay that 1 or 2 of them are out of scope strong.

All the other lights need scaled down (like they used to be) and MGs need the holy living **** nerfed out of them. Small lasers across the spectrum need a bit of a buff.

The Piranha is a symptom of exactly why the current system of 'actually weapon balance in general is bad but a few uber-quirked mechs or mechs that have stupid numbers of hardpoints that favor whatever the most badly balanced for the tonnage weapon system currently is are ultra strong' is absolute, total and complete **** from a game design standpoint.

[FupDup]

MischiefSC, on 05 July 2018 - 10:16 AM, said:

...and MGs need the holy living **** nerfed out of them.

I'm not okay with how quickly the Piranha can currently eat mechs even from the front (not just rear gankers like everybody says), but nerfing MGs globally is not a good answer because that has a ton of collateral damage. Shadow Cats, Vipers, Cute Foxes, and Novas sure as hell weren't pushing the envelope with their MGs.

I know that this sounds like it contradicts my previously stated stance in the "What the community asked for" thread in regard to whether you should nerf guns or robots, but in this specific case study it's just the Piranha. In BT canon there aren't really any other mechs that can abuse MGs like it.

The Kraken can have 16 ballistic hardpoints but it's a big and slow 100-tonner and thus not an issue. There's the 90-ton Juggernaut that can pack 12, but that's an IS mech that requires X-Pulse Laser tech anyways (I assume you only want Clan MG nerfs anyways, Jugger is an IS mech). Lastly there's the Summoner variant Z, which requires a lot of future tech (iATMs, Nova CEWs, ER Pulse, AP Gauss) and it's got a single easily isolated arm for its 8 MGs.

Those are the only other canon mass-MG boats I know about (I'm sure I might have missed a few oddballs). This is one of those times when we have basically no risk of future mechs replacing the Piranha's capabilities, outside of PGI making things up.

Edited by FupDup, 05 July 2018 - 10:49 AM.

[Jman5]

A few months ago I recorded the damage scores of a months worth of piranha and locust sightings (~200 games). The end result was that the Piranha outscored the Locust by some but it wasn't very much (290 vs 271).

Since that time the Clan Machine gun has received a nerf so it might be even closer in score.

My feelings on the Piranha is if he catches you unaware, you can take a lot of damage quickly. If it's a 1v1 and he facehugs you well, it can be difficult to hit him. Otherwise, he isn't that big a deal.

I'm much more terrified of Assaults with enormous alphastrikes.

[Ajantise]

Relax guys it's just the usual PGI sistem of forcing players to buy new mechs.
New mechs always get "broken" hitboxes (always too small) .
When they see no more potential in money and grind, they will "fix" it, so you can kill them like other light mechs

Edited by Ajantise, 05 July 2018 - 11:16 AM.

[Grus]

PIR isn't OP it's very min/max and very easy to kill.. bring IS streaks and watch it pop in 2-3 salvos.