463 replies to this topic

[Darian DelFord]

The Lost Boy, on 15 February 2019 - 05:13 PM, said:

I think the oxide was more broken in its prime. The cheetah got nerfed several times and they had to nerf the small pulse laser to finally put it to bed too. The pir dosnt even have ecm.

The Oxide was never broken, it was just the premier Jenner, due to its structure quirks but still suffered from the same problems that all jenners suffered from.....

Edited by Darian DelFord, 15 February 2019 - 06:38 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Even with all the arguments here, I still say it isn't the PIR that is the issue but rather MGs. There is nothing more terrifying that a MG PIR focusing their attention on you because it is just silly how fast they strip you of any ability to fight or how fast your structure disappears once the armor is breached. You can say all day long to use a LB-20X or whatever, but my experience is that usually when the flea comes calling, 90% of the time he will strip me of that LB-20X faster than I can react to him, aim and kill him or drive him off.

The million laser version can hurt, but that version isn't striping you of your ability to fight back and 80 points of internal structure in 5 second flat. Same for the Flea. It is only those damn mass MGs that can do that.

[Prototelis]

Lol, no the laser version 2 shots heavy mech sts a lot faster than the pir 1 can.

[Battlemaster56]

Man I can solo assaults in my PIR 3 back when micro's had terrible gh limit.

[JediPanther]

meanwhile no one notices me Ember with spls and mgs...mahaha.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Prototelis, on 16 February 2019 - 01:57 PM, said:

Lol, no the laser version 2 shots heavy mech sts a lot faster than the pir 1 can.

Hmm maybe it can but for some reason I don't really notice the laser versions as been that much of a problem. This could be because the problem I find wtih MGs is related to how crits work more than anything else. For example, one of the most OP things about MGs is how even a brief touch by a mech mounting 6+ MGs strips all the weapons out of any exposed section. I can't count the times I have been engaged by a PIR-1 and buy the time I react to him and line him up to plant him face down in the dirt, I have found my mech completely stripped of weapons. That does happen with the laser versions.

I also hate how if you crit with MGs on internal structure, the damage output multiplies. I mean 12 MGs is already 12 DPS which is significantly more DPS than the 8-10 dps most Assault mechs can output, so why the hell does a MG get a damage multiplier every time it crits on internal structure? With the amount of crits 12 MGs are casuing, I wouldn't be surprised if that actual DPS a PIR-1 outputs to the internal structure of a exposed enemy mech isn't closer to 15-20 DPS. That is just WAY TOO MUCH for a 20 ton mech to be outputting.

So the MG has earned the distinction of being the ONLY weapon system I think I have ever advocated a nerf for in this game EVER.

[Darian DelFord]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

Hmm maybe it can but for some reason I don't really notice the laser versions as been that much of a problem. This could be because the problem I find wtih MGs is related to how crits work more than anything else. For example, one of the most OP things about MGs is how even a brief touch by a mech mounting 6+ MGs strips all the weapons out of any exposed section. I can't count the times I have been engaged by a PIR-1 and buy the time I react to him and line him up to plant him face down in the dirt, I have found my mech completely stripped of weapons. That does happen with the laser versions.

I also hate how if you crit with MGs on internal structure, the damage output multiplies. I mean 12 MGs is already 12 DPS which is significantly more DPS than the 8-10 dps most Assault mechs can output, so why the hell does a MG get a damage multiplier every time it crits on internal structure? With the amount of crits 12 MGs are casuing, I wouldn't be surprised if that actual DPS a PIR-1 outputs to the internal structure of a exposed enemy mech isn't closer to 15-20 DPS. That is just WAY TOO MUCH for a 20 ton mech to be outputting.

So the MG has earned the distinction of being the ONLY weapon system I think I have ever advocated a nerf for in this game EVER.

Just out of curiosity.

What are you doing for the 1500+ meters that a Pirahana is taking to get within 135 meters of you to shoot effectively?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity.

What are you doing for the 1500+ meters that a Pirahana is taking to get within 135 meters of you to shoot effectively?

Just out of curiosity.

What game are you playing where you have a 1500+ meter 360 degree unobstructed view of the battlefield?

[Koniving]

Antares102, on 12 February 2019 - 01:49 PM, said:

Two questions:
1.Have you ever played one yourself?
2.Why do good players have no trouble with them?

Comically I'm a bad player if my stats say anything.
https://mwomercs.com...74#entry6181774
And I went on two fish hunting tirades with this horrific mech.
King Crab
2 LB-10X
2 HMG
2 Small Laser
3 Streak SRM-2.
No BAP.

<.<
>.>
Welp my scores speak for themselves. Poor fish. So underpowered that they're a joke.

Or is it that they're balanced?
o.O;

But yeah, in agreement they're far from broken.

[Darian DelFord]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity.

What game are you playing where you have a 1500+ meter 360 degree unobstructed view of the battlefield?

Exactly my point :> Do you have any idea what a pir or any light for that matter has to accomplish to get within range of you, especially for MG's?

[Angel of Annihilation]

Darian DelFord, on 16 February 2019 - 05:52 PM, said:

Exactly my point :> Do you have any idea what a pir or any light for that matter has to accomplish to get within range of you, especially for MG's?

Sure do. I own a grand total of 41 light mechs in my bays, including 3 variants of PIR. I don't play the PIR often because I feel it is a very cheap and unbalanced mech to play due to my distaste for the way MGs work but I have played the PIR enough to know it isn't hard at all to get within 100m of an enemy mech. The easiest way to do it is to hang back mostly behind your team, wait until the enemy is engaged, distracted and damaged, then rush in at 140+ kph and clean up. Seriously, it isn't hard, in fact it is about the easiest thing to do and it is a hell of a lot easier than trying to land a solid hit on a PIR zipping around under you feet, while your piloting an Assault mech.

Again I would like to point out, so far at least, that I don't feel this issue is as much the PIR as MGs and how they work. If those were fixed to just do straight damage against internals and the crits were toned down substantially so that a short burst of mass MGs wouldn't instantly strip your chassis of weapons, I don't think there is a problem one with the PIR, in fact it might actually benefit from a bit of a durability buff. As for the laser versions, I really haven't played them enough to feel if they are OP and haven't felt they were OP when I was facing them so I can't comment there.

[General Solo]

I dunno I kill fish easy enough
Mech/Matches/Wins/Losses/Ratio/Kills/Deaths/Ratio/Damage/XP/Time
PIRANHA PIR-1 135 65 70 0.93 118 99 1.19 36,876 119,615 14:14:16
PIRANHA PIR-2 52 30 22 1.36 35 44 0.80 12,259 61,947 04:41:09
CIPHER 279 157 120 1.31 173 187 0.93 93,014 278,918 1 day 05:31:06

Dont seem broken when I pilot them

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 17 February 2019 - 03:51 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Ok went and played my PIR-2 and a 49 point alpha strike that I can fire twice before overheating is a bit over the top for a 20 ton mech on the other hand thanks to the overly hot, long duration, long cooldown nature of Clan weapons, the inferior Flea actually has more DPS, go figure hehe.

Still I don't feel the laser versions are anywhere near the issue of the MG variants.

Lets compare really quick.

PIR-2
33% cooling eff.
4.64 DPS

(I fiddled with the builds a bit and managed a build that got like 5.04 DPS but that is it)

PIR-1
191% cooling eff.
14.40 DPS

Guys, that is 3 times the straight DPS with it being impossible for the MG PIR-1 to Overheat. This is before the bonus damage you get from crits on internal structure and the critical hits on weapons and components. This is the very definition of OVERPOWERED if there ever was one. Guys, we are litterally taking about the same DPS as a full meta Dakka build MCII-B here and that is a 95 ton Clan mech many feel is OP....on a 20 ton mech. Oh and the 95-ton MCII-B doesn't get the crit damage multiplier that eats structure and strips weapons and components.

[Jman5]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

I mean 12 MGs is already 12 DPS which is significantly more DPS than the 8-10 dps most Assault mechs can output, so why the hell does a MG get a damage multiplier every time it crits on internal structure?

Hold up. You would have to build something pretty funky to only get 8-10 DPS out an assault. Maybe some sort of weird PPC Awesome. Or maybe something with extreme range like an ER LL boat with a big TC. I have an even harder time believing that's the norm on the clan side. Almost every build's DPS I look at is in the teens or 20s and anything that is remotely short-mid range is going to have a good DPS.

Edited by Jman5, 16 February 2019 - 10:07 PM.

[YueFei]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

I also hate how if you crit with MGs on internal structure, the damage output multiplies. I mean 12 MGs is already 12 DPS which is significantly more DPS than the 8-10 dps most Assault mechs can output, so why the hell does a MG get a damage multiplier every time it crits on internal structure?

Wut. My Shadowhawk-2D outputs more DPS than that, at 15.43 DPS before skill tree boosts.

If you built an Assault that outputs 8 to 10 DPS, you've done it wrong.

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:37 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity.

What game are you playing where you have a 1500+ meter 360 degree unobstructed view of the battlefield?

A game in which other long-ranged mechs force you to be honest and hug cover, so that your fire lane is setup "long" rather than "wide".

You get pressured into using cover, which then obstructs your lines of sight and creates "blind spots" where you cannot project your firepower... these are "shadows" where other enemy mechs can move and advance to close in on your position. Enemy mechs such as enemy Lights.

That's not Lights being overpowered. That's just teamwork.

[Darian DelFord]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 09:04 PM, said:

Ok went and played my PIR-2 and a 49 point alpha strike that I can fire twice before overheating is a bit over the top for a 20 ton mech on the other hand thanks to the overly hot, long duration, long cooldown nature of Clan weapons, the inferior Flea actually has more DPS, go figure hehe.

Still I don't feel the laser versions are anywhere near the issue of the MG variants.

Lets compare really quick.

PIR-2
33% cooling eff.
4.64 DPS

(I fiddled with the builds a bit and managed a build that got like 5.04 DPS but that is it)

PIR-1
191% cooling eff.
14.40 DPS

Guys, that is 3 times the straight DPS with it being impossible for the MG PIR-1 to Overheat. This is before the bonus damage you get from crits on internal structure and the critical hits on weapons and components. This is the very definition of OVERPOWERED if there ever was one. Guys, we are litterally taking about the same DPS as a full meta Dakka build MCII-B here and that is a 95 ton Clan mech many feel is OP....on a 20 ton mech. Oh and the 95-ton MCII-B doesn't get the crit damage multiplier that eats structure and strips weapons and components.

The problem that your not realizing and most don't is MWO is all about the Alpha when you are fighting a light. One good alpha from an assault to a light will outright kill them.

Lights on the other hand, have to alpha you multiple times to even have a chance. Skill on Skill, I would say a light has to alpha what 15 to 20 times with the assault doing proper spreading????

1 alpha from that same assault and the light is dead.

That is the counter to lights. And its one of my biggest issues I have with this game. Power creep has given the heavier chassis so much more of an advantage over the lighter chassis its not even funny.

[Antares102]

Just a side question on this topic:
Why do people still run around with a PIR-2 when the PIR-3 is clearly superior?

PIR3-still got all the structure quirks and has higher agility AKA is was not hit by the nerf hammer.
The only thing it lacks compared to the PIR-2 is one energy slot.
But I dont think it matters when you still have 14 slots to work with.

[Grus]

Jman5, on 16 February 2019 - 10:03 PM, said:

Hold up. You would have to build something pretty funky to only get 8-10 DPS out an assault. Maybe some sort of weird PPC Awesome. Or maybe something with extreme range like an ER LL boat with a big TC. I have an even harder time believing that's the norm on the clan side. Almost every build's DPS I look at is in the teens or 20s and anything that is remotely short-mid range is going to have a good DPS.

Big alpha mechs have a low dps. And when I say big, I'm referring to a DW with 104 alpha...

[InspectorG]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 07:30 AM, said:

Big alpha mechs have a low dps. And when I say big, I'm referring to a DW with 104 alpha...

Heavy Gauss+wub Anni has 80 alpha and around 18DPS.

4lb10 Slapnir has around 17.5 dps.

But its likely dependent on how you calculate dps AND factor in heat/jams.

[Curccu]

Angel of Annihilation, on 16 February 2019 - 05:26 PM, said:

Hmm maybe it can but for some reason I don't really notice the laser versions as been that much of a problem. This could be because the problem I find wtih MGs is related to how crits work more than anything else. For example, one of the most OP things about MGs is how even a brief touch by a mech mounting 6+ MGs strips all the weapons out of any exposed section. I can't count the times I have been engaged by a PIR-1 and buy the time I react to him and line him up to plant him face down in the dirt, I have found my mech completely stripped of weapons. That does happen with the laser versions.

Lets use my PIR-3 build as example, how many shots your fully armored hellbringer can take to sidetorso or CT from that mech? It requires ~0,6 seconds face time to deliver its alpha and against normal vomit hbrs all of it's weapons cycle almost 2 times before that HBR can shoot again, thats 124,8 damage in already, and with good shots that mech can be halved or almost dead... If the mech was totally fresh, If not... dead for sure.

and from backstabbing point of view, I can't count how many mechs I have killed from behind before they react/realize they are getting shot into back.