518 replies to this topic

[dante245]

justcallme A S H, on 06 July 2018 - 04:48 PM, said:

I can't believe the PTS changes actually got worse than what was implied was happening initially.

Once again I must point out how incorrect the above statement is with some actual real world facts.....
Only 3 or 4 mechs can run. You have the Clan 94pt Boogeyman
But you aren't at worried at all about the... IS 86pt Boogeyman.

Clan one has an insanely high burn time/duration, higher cooldown, mech has no agility/cant twist and shocking hitboxes but quite a bit more range.

The IS one has far less range but it gains a pile of armour quirks, great hitboxes, barely any burn time/duration to speak of with the HGauss pinpoint and faster cooldown... They are both quite niche in their own way. It is dynamic.


Allowing 3 cERL at once essentially means IS can no longer trade with the only ERL mech they have - BLR-1G... Now Clan will now just 3+3 cERL for a 1s overall duration saving due to cDHS boating.

cERML 1.75dmg drop? Kills any mech that can't boat 5+ of them (IE Lights/Meds, GG once again).

All these changes make little to no sense.

And why people brought up the topic of mixed/shared weapon tech, cause this **** keeps happening.

Edited by dante245, 13 July 2018 - 05:43 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

dante245, on 13 July 2018 - 05:41 PM, said:

And why people brought up the topic of mixed/shared weapon tech, cause this **** keeps happening.

You know ive really come around to the idea of shared tech in the last few months. If it will keep PGI Chris from pounding clan tech into wet sausage as he descends further and further into this OCD madness of crude min max balancing, then I'm all for it.

Seriously, as a writer I can see the parody here between the kind of edits you make when you've been focused every day on a single project for a month, and haven't taken the time to step away so you can look at it with fresh eyes.

This isn't fun Chris, do you know that? At least when this was Paul's job there was a sense that PGI wasn't going to go swinging damage nerfs around like a baseball bat in an inner city liquor store. At the end of the day, most players aren't going to be thanking you if a change of this nature makes it to live servers.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 13 July 2018 - 06:19 PM.

[Dee Eight]

On my fave medium, shadowcat ecm with 3 streak-6 and 2 ERML, I've reverted back to its original build of using SPL for the lasers. I just cannot justify dumping more heat into less damage on a harasser. On my cheetah that was six ERML..well that's done and over with. Rather run two ERLL and poke with it from 800 + meters for 20 dmg and 21.6 heat, than have to close to 460m or less to do 31.5 dmg and 33.5 heat. Hell probably more useful still to go back to the six SPL build and be dishing out 24 dmg for 12.3 heat. My 7 MPL Supernova has become 4 MPL, 1 ERLL and 2 SPL. No ghost heating now so it actually can be used to alpha strike (which it couldn't safely before much of the time) and its actually got some long range capability now.

Of course, the whole pts hardly effects me on most of my clan mechs... i far prefer missile/ballistic builds, and most of the ones which have energy lasers already ran mixed builds anyway. I rarely ever boat one particular weapon, or to one particular range band. The whole multiple large pulse er medium builds pokaroo build type never appealed to me. The ones which do, are lights or over fast mediums (like vipers) which lack the tonnage to do anything else effectively. And that's who are being hurt by a lot of these changes. NOT the hellbringers and ebons and kodiaks and mad cats. I can pull off two 6ERML alphas with it on HPG then its overheat time on the cheetah... that's not really an effective build anymore. With the six SPL I can fire of seven volleys before i reach the same total accumulated heat, that's more than ENOUGH damage to leg any assault and kill most lighter mecs outright.

Meanwhile you'd just made my hellbringer prime sniper more effective with three ERLL than it was with two ERPPC. Because I no longer need to run the HBR-F right torso for its high energy mount, I can get the set of 8 quirks back with the 10% energy heat bonus.

Edited by Dee Eight, 13 July 2018 - 07:36 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

[1:13]
Johnny is Chris, Yosaku is the player base.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 13 July 2018 - 09:09 PM.

[lazorbeamz]

ForceUser, on 13 July 2018 - 03:44 PM, said:

Next up is the Hellbringer, the one and only. This mech is responsible, back when I ran 2LPL+4ERML, for the single highest cbill reward I have ever received in a quickplay match in the 5 years that I've played (770k cbills).

The build I'll be testing is the more recent 2HLL+4ERML and it won't be changing for testing.

Original alpha was 64 for 57.2 heat. Generally I'd tend to fire off a single alpha and usually be able to fire a 2nd alpha by the time the HLL came off cooldown. After that I'd lean on the ERML for the 28 alpha at only 25.2 heat rather than the 36 alpha at 32 heat, especially due to the duration. HLL were relegated to being used with a full alpha or emergency kill attempts.

New alpha is 53 for 54.8 heat. It doesn't feel like a huge difference. I can feel the difference in alpha but I can also just barely alpha 3 times now on HLL cooldown on canyon with the appropriate skill tree nodes (2/3 of the cooldown nodes, all Duration and Heat Gen, all but the last 2 cool run nodes). I feel a little bit more flexible but that comes at the cost of a decent bit of punch. I managed over 600 damage in each of 2 matches, not bad for a 4v4.

A new build however has opened up for this mech. 3ERLL + 3 ERML. This build is very familiar to anyone who regularly pilots IS laser mechs as 3 LL + 3 ERML has been a staple since civil war tech and 3LPL+ML has been a staple before that. In fact this is exactly what I run on a number of 50-65t mechs like the Uziel, Jester, Rifleman, etc.

Initially it didn't feel as great in the PTS but it's a build much more suited to how a normal quick play or CW match would play out than a 4v4. The 2nd match went much better depsite being a close range brawl, getting close to 500 damage. Lower damage due to worse damage per heat overall is expected (and is made up for in range). The ranged poke is pretty incredible on it with 30 damage at almost 850m. The alpha is a relatively small 45.7 (compared to IS 42 for a similar loadout) and the heat is still a toasty 49.5. If you're not taking advantage of the huge range advantage on the mech you're better off with the HLL build, however it's better than the old 4ERLL build normally found on the hellbringer as it has a bigger alpha while still keeping a respectable mid range alpha. You can not alpha 3 times despite the cooler alpha due the the much shorter ERLL cooldown. However, the ERLL and ERML cooldown and duration sync perfectly. So worse alpha and damage per heat but much better damage at extreme range and better quality alphas (Duration/Sync).

Nice games. I would love to play but im away from my pc so at least i can read this . Hope this patch goes live faster.

[xXBagheeraXx]

The Mayor of Smuttington, on 11 July 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

Man every time I read a Reno Blade post I gain another chromosome

Aight PGI we up to 21 pages of complaints plus other threads

Any news on PTS changes? Y'know, for the good of the gamestate? I'm sure a lot of people here have other ways to spend their time

Yeeahhh his post made no freaking sense at all

The original point of the "nerf" was specifically because pgi has NO idea the difference between all up alpha damage and sustained alpha. My builds we posted pointed to alpha damages on the IS side far below the "94 alpha" PGI pulled out thier asses as the reason for this proposed nerf.

THe nerf isnt because of "smaller mechs" or GO big and go home. We listed and discussed the 3 mechs in this game with notoriously high alphas.

one of which is IS, and when well driven probably has the lowest time to kill in the game.

[Leviathan MDK]

I really don,t feel the point of this pts. In 4 games i actualy had more peeking than less and i can now take 6 ERLL in a SNV and make it work betger than before. The gause recoil didn't bother me as long as the IS gause recieves the same treatment i don't mind.

The laser change will only increase peeking not stop it at all. maybe just change the large lassers and leave the rest untouched?

[NocturnalBeast]

I have been thinking and my suggestion on how to improve this game without removing any Mechs from the game, or nerfing Clans into uselessness is this:

1) Make FP IS vs IS only (keep the battles in the IS). Also, separate the factions again and make the rewards significantly higher for loyalists and Mercs who take long-term contracts.

2) Make a new "Trials" mode, that would be 1 Clan star (5 mechs) vs 1 Clan star on the regular maps. Make this mode similar to Solaris where each Clan works like sponsors in Solaris but they reward "honor" instead of "accolades". Also, have a ranked ladder for this mode that ranks each Star as a team.

3) Separate QP into either Clan or IS, but not mixed.

Edited by Ed Steele, 14 July 2018 - 12:11 PM.

[Martallica]

Yup not liking this !

[Damnedtroll]

The problem of high alpha is the number of weapons used at the same time... ghost heat was trying to diminish that. Still you can bypass with mounting an array of weapons having the same profile.

Make it so that you can only fire two laser weapons at once for light ? tree for medium, four for heavy and five for assault ?

Edited by Damnedtroll, 14 July 2018 - 12:22 PM.

[Martallica]

I kinda like my HML as they where , if you could see fit to leave them as they are that would be just peachy . Ta !

[PraetorGix]

If this goes live, you killed C-med lasers. And every light and medium that has a couple energy hardpoints and turned to meds when you killed the C-small pulse lasers.

[Tarl Cabot]

PraetorGix, on 14 July 2018 - 04:57 PM, said:

If this goes live, you killed C-med lasers. And every light and medium that has a couple energy hardpoints and turned to meds when you killed the C-small pulse lasers.

How is that different from IS light and medium, IS mechs that either they go LFE to avoid side torso death or isXL w/expectation, nevermind only some are able to utilize Endo/Ferro (14 slots each) for some sort of weight savings?

The C-SPL PGI/Russ had screwed that from the beginning after the Clans had gone live by doubling the damage of the TT settings. Need to get over that.

[Conner Ward]

Thank you for the rewards, but 2,000,000 CBills and a warhorn is not going to compensate me enough for the Mechs that I will have to retire if this goes live.

[NocturnalBeast]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 July 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

The C-SPL PGI/Russ had screwed that from the beginning after the Clans had gone live by doubling the damage of the TT settings. Need to get over that.

Clans in MWO were Nerfed from the beginning, they were never in the live game with "double the damage of TT". PGI even said that Clans would not be as powerful as they are in TT from the beginning. PGI did not say, though that Clans would be Nerfed to the point that they were inferior to IS.

Would you be willing to give up all your Armor, Internal Structure, Heat Generation and Mobility quirks if all Clan weapons were made equal to IS weapons?

[Tarl Cabot]

Ed Steele, on 14 July 2018 - 07:11 PM, said:

Clans in MWO were Nerfed from the beginning, they were never in the live game with "double the damage of TT". PGI even said that Clans would not be as powerful as they are in TT from the beginning. PGI did not say, though that Clans would be Nerfed to the point that they were inferior to IS.

Would you be willing to give up all your Armor, Internal Structure, Heat Generation and Mobility quirks if all Clan weapons were made equal to IS weapons?

Sorry but just get away from the frak Mechlab. Lore did not have the type of mechlab we gamers have, be it the PC game or the TT. The power of the Clans came from STOCK mechs. Stock Clan mechs were way more powerful that IS/Star League Stock mechs, and that was AFTER FASA created Clan tech after the failure of the playtesting of the Clans using Star League era tech/mechs. Clan warriors had available alt configurations, but mechs were setup per their CO directives. The few owners of IS mechs certainly could not make wholesale changes their mechs, and many changes took time to make, with rolls on how successful said changes were.

The Clans were nerf because both Clan and IS, especially IS, had access to the Mechlab. And if MWO did not have a mechlab, do you believe that the game would still be here in a purely Clan vs IS environment? Possibly in a Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS but not a stock Clan vs IS. And what percentage of the population would play Clan vs IS, even with asymmetric settings? So yes, Clans were nerf by having a universal and viable mechlab.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 14 July 2018 - 08:06 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 July 2018 - 07:53 PM, said:

Sorry but just get away from the frak Mechlab. Lore did not have the type of mechlab we gamers have, be it the PC game or the TT. The power of the Clans came from STOCK mechs. Stock Clan mechs were way more powerful that IS/Star League Stock mechs, and that was AFTER FASA created Clan tech after the failure of the playtesting of the Clans using Star League era tech/mechs. Clan warriors had available alt configurations, but mechs were setup per their CO directives. The few owners of IS mechs certainly could not make wholesale changes their mechs, and many changes took time to make, with rolls on how successful said changes were.

The Clans were nerf because both Clan and IS had access to the Mechlab. And if MWO did not have a mechlab, do you believe that the game would still be here in a Clan vs IS environment? Possibly in a Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS. And what percentage of the population would play Clan vs IS, even with asymmetric settings? So yes, Clans were nerf by having a viable mechlab.

I don't get what the mechlab has to do with clan and IS mechs being mixed in quickplay.

Further no, he does not need to get over the cSPL, he needs to continue to whine about it like the rest of us until the damage is buffed back to five and these clan changes on this PTS are rolled back. IS smalls especially need to come up clan models do not need to come down .

[PraetorGix]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 July 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

The C-SPL PGI/Russ had screwed that from the beginning after the Clans had gone live by doubling the damage of the TT settings. Need to get over that.

Sure matey, I will. As soon as you and all the other old farts get over the fact that THIS IS NOT TT.

[Tarl Cabot]

PraetorGix, on 14 July 2018 - 08:00 PM, said:

Sure matey, I will. As soon as you and all the other old farts get over the fact that THIS IS NOT TT.

It isnt TT but it was the only version of small laser category that received that sweet treatment between IS and Clan, and if you can not understand that you know nothing....

But I am fine with the whining but now PGI will not be changing it back to the previous setting when Paul/Russ had frak it up early on.

cSPL dmg/heat

Lore: 3 dmg / 2 heat

MWO June 2014: initially 3.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO July 2014: increased to 4.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO Nov 2014: Increased to 6.0 dmg / 3.0 heat
MWO June 2017: Decrease to 4.0 dmg / 2.7 heat
MWO July 2017: Heat decreased - 4.0 dmg / 2.4 heat (that patch also introduced Heavy Lasers)
MWO March 2018: Heat decreased 4.0 dmg / 2.05 heat

Ref MWO Dec 2014: Release of Community Warfare aka Faction Play

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 14 July 2018 - 08:26 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Tarl Cabot, on 14 July 2018 - 08:10 PM, said:

It isnt TT but it was the only version of small laser category that received that sweet treatment between IS and Clan, and if you can not understand that you know nothing....

But I am fine with the whining but now PGI will not be changing it back to the previous setting when Paul/Russ had frak it up early on.

cSPL dmg/heat

Lore: 3 dmg / 2 heat

MWO June 2014: initially 3.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO July 2014: increased to 4.4 dmg / 3.4 heat
MWO Nov 2014: Increased to 6.0 dmg / 3.0 heat
MWO June 2017: Decrease to 4.0 dmg / 2.7 heat
MWO July 2017: Heat decreased - 4.0 dmg / 2.4 heat (that patch also introduced Heavy Lasers)
MWO March 2018: Heat decreased 4.0 dmg / 2.05 heat

Ref MWO Dec 2014: Release of Community Warfare aka Faction Play

In Table Top the cSPL was essentially just a range extended version of the IS SPL. The clans did not iterate on or upgrade the SPL the same way they did their other lasers because unlike their other lasers, the SPLs were intended as Anti-Personel weapons, not anti-mech weapons.

In MWO there are no little dudes to mow down, so PGI adapted the cSPL to follow the same trends as all of the other pulse lasers, trends they have only recently tossed to the wind under the direction of his holiness PGI Chris.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 14 July 2018 - 09:11 PM.