518 replies to this topic

[Six-Pack]

I don't understand the majority of people in this thread. They complain that PGI listens too much to the whinners when it is THEM who whine. Moreover do it in a very immature way. I could understand the last time your pitchforks worked because that heat threshold penalty was ridiculous and many of YOU said that a damage nerf of Heavy lasers is what needed instead.

Now for some reason HML and HLL nerfs are bad... I don't have a clue how your kind can be pleased.

It is also funny to see people complainning about PGI 'boogeymanning' then throwing IS boogeys into the fray. Especially that guy that compared GaussVomit DS and an SRM CQP. Or throwing around AHN forgetting that it and FNF are probably the only IS mechs that can even reach that thx to dual HGauss. Meanwhile forgetting HL Hunchbacks and Hellbringers that can easily pull 60-70 alphas at 50-65 tonn and 80+ km/h, get me an IS pinpoint build that can compete at this weight.

Get over yourself and be objective. The proposed changes are headed in the right direction(except gauss recoil and probably 3 LL heat treshold) the CERMLdmg nerf seems like a blunder but that's what PTS is for - to check for blatantly bad decisions.

[Rho Treska]

Six-Pack, on 12 July 2018 - 03:36 AM, said:

Get over yourself and be objective.

Objective facts:
-Clan lasers have longer burn times and all Clan weapons except the GR are forced to splash one way or another - be it the mentioned long burn times, enforced burst/stream fire on ACs and LRMs, or simply wider spread than IS counterparts. They need the raw damage to grind through IS armor and structure quirks which are only amplified by skilled pilots and optimized builds.
-In turn, Clan 'mechs rarely have the agility to do the same, even if they're faster - see the Timber Wolf which just recently had its negative Torso Speed baked into the baseline stats, hindering the twisting and damage spread that IS chassis shine in. They're built to face their target down, and usually don't even bring any extra armor to do it with.

Subjective statements:
-While skill and twisting are often mentioned in posts, I never see them quantified in any of the calculations - probably because it's just too hard.
-For the same reason I think PGI doesn't do it and balances purely by spreadsheet. Mistake.
-I'm also not opposed to the slight HLL nerf, but that's because I'm a Lorehound and 16 damage is the TT canon.
-Not even the popular counterarguments cXL and cDHS count for much when you lose an ST by default because you can't get it out of the way, thanks to the need to stay on target to deal your damage and make it worth the heat and then not getting the return fire spread sufficiently.

Closing statement:
Piloting a Clan 'mech always has a bit of All-Or-Nothing to it. Dealing high damage comes with the price of being hot and brittle, and lasers are currently the only way to make something of it especially on lighter chassis. With that new patch, it'll be more LOL-And-Nothing.

[SmokedJag]

ArcRoyale, on 11 July 2018 - 07:43 PM, said:

Just my two pennies...

I asked a Battletech group I frequent how one balances the Clans. Fact is, Clans have always been OP, but the Tabletop builds in rules to regulate them, stuff like Battle Value 2.0 or Zellbringen. Well, the former is essentially replaced by the tonnage limit, and that got rolled back to the max weight for mediums, so now we have Ryokens and Noboris carving through IS forces in Scout mode, and then FLIPPING PIRANHAS nibbling us to death with their MGs. As for Zell, that's essentially a restriction on the rules for Clan Players, and no player in their right mind is gonna play like that unless it's an RP server.

The bigger Clan RP restriction than zellbringen was bidding. It's not "dishonorable" to refuse to use zellbringen once the Inner Sphere is no longer dueling or is using weapons/tech that would otherwise be prohibited in it. An Inner Sphere opponent will normally not want to duel because, well, short of Civil War tech they will lose.

Cowardice (e.g. kiting, peeking, LRM boating) IS still looked down on because it reflects badly on you personally rather than having anything to do with the enemy. Almost by definition in Clan thought a dishonorable enemy is inferior to the point you really should not need such tactics even if technically legal.

However it is dishonorable, always, to send down equal or superior BV of custom-picked, custom-built 'Mechs to deal with said Inner Sphere. Matching tonnage will exceed the BV of the Inner Sphere side, in some cases drastically so. The Timber Wolf has a BV much higher than an invasion-era Inner Sphere *assault* 'Mech (and justifiably so). Clan assaults exceed their Inner Sphere couterparts by 50-100%. These are stock configurations, not customs. So reasonable RP Bidding means that a Clan force is much fewer in number, much lighter in tonnage or in some cases both.

And a custom Clan *BattleMech* would be absolutely prohibited (IRL the player is a munchkin). Lore-wise that is second-line equipment piloted by second-rate warrior that would not have the pull to mod it.

[Smutty]

Six-Pack, on 12 July 2018 - 03:36 AM, said:

I don't understand the majority of people in this thread. They complain that PGI listens too much to the whinners when it is THEM who whine. Moreover do it in a very immature way. I could understand the last time your pitchforks worked because that heat threshold penalty was ridiculous and many of YOU said that a damage nerf of Heavy lasers is what needed instead.

Now for some reason HML and HLL nerfs are bad... I don't have a clue how your kind can be pleased.

It is also funny to see people complainning about PGI 'boogeymanning' then throwing IS boogeys into the fray. Especially that guy that compared GaussVomit DS and an SRM CQP. Or throwing around AHN forgetting that it and FNF are probably the only IS mechs that can even reach that thx to dual HGauss. Meanwhile forgetting HL Hunchbacks and Hellbringers that can easily pull 60-70 alphas at 50-65 tonn and 80+ km/h, get me an IS pinpoint build that can compete at this weight.

Get over yourself and be objective. The proposed changes are headed in the right direction(except gauss recoil and probably 3 LL heat treshold) the CERMLdmg nerf seems like a blunder but that's what PTS is for - to check for blatantly bad decisions.

I'm gonna go ahead and list everything right about this post



I'm done

[Six-Pack]

Rho Treska, on 12 July 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

Objective facts:
-Clan lasers have longer burn times and all Clan weapons except the GR are forced to splash one way or another - be it the mentioned long burn times, enforced burst/stream fire on ACs and LRMs, or simply wider spread than IS counterparts. They need the raw damage to grind through IS armor and structure quirks which are only amplified by skilled pilots and optimized builds.
-In turn, Clan 'mechs rarely have the agility to do the same, even if they're faster - see the Timber Wolf which just recently had its negative Torso Speed baked into the baseline stats, hindering the twisting and damage spread that IS chassis shine in. They're built to face their target down, and usually don't even bring any extra armor to do it with.

Subjective statements:
-While skill and twisting are often mentioned in posts, I never see them quantified in any of the calculations - probably because it's just too hard.
-For the same reason I think PGI doesn't do it and balances purely by spreadsheet. Mistake.
-I'm also not opposed to the slight HLL nerf, but that's because I'm a Lorehound and 16 damage is the TT canon.
-Not even the popular counterarguments cXL and cDHS count for much when you lose an ST by default because you can't get it out of the way, thanks to the need to stay on target to deal your damage and make it worth the heat and then not getting the return fire spread sufficiently.

Closing statement:
Piloting a Clan 'mech always has a bit of All-Or-Nothing to it. Dealing high damage comes with the price of being hot and brittle, and lasers are currently the only way to make something of it especially on lighter chassis. With that new patch, it'll be more LOL-And-Nothing.

Objectively you deal the same 5 points of damage in 0.9 seconds using cERML - there is no dmg tradeoff CURRENTLY so tell me more about torsotwisting that. 22 DHS in a IS 65 tonner? 14 slot Ferro and Endo? Don't forget inferior Ferro with 12% in 14 slots against 20% in 7 slots? 120% heavier weapon systems? And no cXL is way superior to IS engines no matter how you look at it. And it is the IS mechs that run XL or STD emgines are the ones who are 'All in or nothing' sacrificing either survivability A LOT or having to put up with 60% engine weight.

Rho Treska, on 12 July 2018 - 04:14 AM, said:

Objective facts:
-Clan lasers have longer burn times and all Clan weapons except the GR are forced to splash one way or another - be it the mentioned long burn times, enforced burst/stream fire on ACs and LRMs, or simply wider spread than IS counterparts. They need the raw damage to grind through IS armor and structure quirks which are only amplified by skilled pilots and optimized builds.
-In turn, Clan 'mechs rarely have the agility to do the same, even if they're faster - see the Timber Wolf which just recently had its negative Torso Speed baked into the baseline stats, hindering the twisting and damage spread that IS chassis shine in. They're built to face their target down, and usually don't even bring any extra armor to do it with.

Subjective statements:
-While skill and twisting are often mentioned in posts, I never see them quantified in any of the calculations - probably because it's just too hard.
-For the same reason I think PGI doesn't do it and balances purely by spreadsheet. Mistake.
-I'm also not opposed to the slight HLL nerf, but that's because I'm a Lorehound and 16 damage is the TT canon.
-Not even the popular counterarguments cXL and cDHS count for much when you lose an ST by default because you can't get it out of the way, thanks to the need to stay on target to deal your damage and make it worth the heat and then not getting the return fire spread sufficiently.

Closing statement:
Piloting a Clan 'mech always has a bit of All-Or-Nothing to it. Dealing high damage comes with the price of being hot and brittle, and lasers are currently the only way to make something of it especially on lighter chassis. With that new patch, it'll be more LOL-And-Nothing.

Objectively you deal the same 5 points of damage in 0.9 seconds using cERML - there is no dmg tradeoff CURRENTLY so tell me more about torsotwisting that. 22 DHS in a IS 65 tonner? 14 slot Ferro and Endo? Don't forget inferior Ferro with 12% in 14 slots against 20% in 7 slots? 120% heavier weapon systems? And no cXL is way superior to IS engines no matter how you look at it. And it is the IS mechs that run XL or STD emgines are the ones who are 'All in or nothing' sacrificing either survivability A LOT or having to put up with 60% engine weight.

[Serenna187]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 July 2018 - 06:27 PM, said:

Wrong.

Newton's Third Law: for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction.

First Law of Thermodynamics: Energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

The electromagnetic force is just a propellant, like the gases generated with burning gunpowder. As it pushes on the projectile, it also pushes against the rest of the weapon. Because the energy imparted into both projectile and weapon is the same, and because the projectile is less massive than the combination of the rest of the weapon and the structure it is braced against (i.e. the ground), the projectile must necessarily move at a higher velocity to have the same energy value and thus exits the barrel.

This is why you get recoil.

Note, that does not mean I like them adding it to the cGauss.

Sleep deprived me totally forgot about basic physics but yes,fair point.Tho the sheer weight of a mech and ever present weapon stabilisation / recoil dampeners in any mech would negate that little recoil.Heavy Gauss is another thing..

[Leon Ward]

I looked at NGNG TS yesterday and then I just feel like PGI thinks we all want PGI bad. I like the BT universe for a long time (I was 12 years old)
I like to play clans and have no problem with the fact that the clan and IS should be raised to a level the MWO is not the TT.
But the balancers must understand that if a clan can only fire a 30's alpha and the same an IS quirkmech then automatically loses the clan!

So I'm not personally excited about the balancing on but then the IS side again much stronger as the clans and that feels as a clan not funny.
DHG Anni / Sleipnir ...... but the normal Clangauss have to get a shake?

That's the reason for me to say that I will PGI as long as it is only about nerfs and my favorite mechs no money to give that I want to pay for the product so nothing, so I use from now on the game as F2P and if the nerfs will remain one-sided i stop playing this game !!!!

[Tarl Cabot]

Khr1574n, on 11 July 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

How many times did you nerf the clan lasers now ?
Is it not canon that Clan stuff is better than IS at most things (by quite some margin)?

snip

Just stop. Canon, storyline does NOT equal this computer game - STOCK Clan mechs are head over heel way better than STOCK IS/STAR LEAGUE mechs. Canon does not have MECHLABS like this game has. The closest canon gets to that is the omnimechs and the alternate configs with modular systems which takes a several hours to switch out, even then the computer systems are setup for specific weapon configuration, ie ALT config. Nor do Clan mechwarriors even own their mechs as said mechs belong to their unit and their setup at the time of the drop is based on the CO's directives.

And besides having a better setup, do not forget Clans had better gunnery/piloting skills. And to add the weaponry stats are based on a BOARD game using dice. In the base TT, each hex is 30m. Dice is used to determine hit/miss AND location for each weapon, not each weapon grouping (TIC)

Quote

Or are we going to start getting quirks like crazy on clan mechs as well to compensate ?

People need to learn to pilot the damn things better, learn positioning, tactics and TEAM WORK. Not to whine to make the two factions indistinguishable.

snip.

I really don't get the laser nerfs.

Just as a reminder, armor/structural quirks are DOUBLED of the lore/tt setup in this FPS game, though there is no real reason that could not be upped, then instead of reducing Clan stuff, increase IS stuff. But there has to be a baseline there somewhere, which is likely why PGI is not willing to make some necessary changes to IS tech, be it from death w/loss of one ST for isXL to improving IS weapons/components.

Also, do not forgot that lore had the reset of tech with the Dark Ages, etc due to the vast difference between IS and Clans.

Many Clan mechs now have quirks and that list keeps growing. When adding armor/structural quirks PGI primarily says it is done due to hitboxes. Of course, being hit with a higher alpha from a clan mech than a is mech likely does not help matters, but those spreadsheets have that type of details separated when obtained via the Quickplay queue, whereas from FP it is that simple.

And yes, PGI is way too slow in getting changes into the game. And the goal post of what the game to be keeps changing, which can be good or bad, dependent on your viewpoint at the time.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 12 July 2018 - 06:10 AM.

[Daurock]

Lance-a-Lot, on 12 July 2018 - 05:21 AM, said:

I looked at NGNG TS yesterday and then I just feel like PGI thinks we all want PGI bad. I like the BT universe for a long time (I was 12 years old)
I like to play clans and have no problem with the fact that the clan and IS should be raised to a level the MWO is not the TT.
But the balancers must understand that if a clan can only fire a 30's alpha and the same an IS quirkmech then automatically loses the clan!

So I'm not personally excited about the balancing on but then the IS side again much stronger as the clans and that feels as a clan not funny.
DHG Anni / Sleipnir ...... but the normal Clangauss have to get a shake?

That's the reason for me to say that I will PGI as long as it is only about nerfs and my favorite mechs no money to give that I want to pay for the product so nothing, so I use from now on the game as F2P and if the nerfs will remain one-sided i stop playing this game !!!!

As best I can tell, They haven't stated anywhere that they think clans as a whole are OP. The closest they've implied that is with respect to lasers, where they say that there is- "A general lopsidedness in most build performance throughout the entire clan / IS lineup and often sees the Clan 'Mechs with access to a large number of energy hard points consistently outperform equivalent 'Mechs on the IS side" That quote basically says to me that they believe Clan LaserVomit is Flatly Better than IS LaserVomit, which shouldn't be that surprising to most people.

So far, their stated major goals are to (1) reduce the alpha the larger clan mechs are capable of, bringing clan and IS Alpha-centric builds closer together in terms of Achievable Alpha, and (2) To bring clan and IS laser boats closer in overall performance. You could add (3) Balancing Clan and IS Gauss here as well. I suspect (but have not actually read) that they also believe that clan Laser/Gauss Combos are Pushing too much other clan equipment into the side, leading to 3/4 of clan mechs basically running some variant of Laser Vomit/Gauss vomit, in part because of problems (1) and (2). Too many players see LaserVom/GaussVom as the only viable builds according to PGI, and they are aiming to change that. Since they've also stated that they aren't looking to buff the other 75% of the weapons, so they are balancing by nerf stick instead.

At the end of the day though, I don't think PGI wants clans to be objectively worse than IS. If that was a goal of theirs, they would have made clans bad a LONG time ago. That's why I highly doubt that the changes listed are the only ones they have planned. I also note that they have implied that this is basically step 1, and that further changes are planned. While I greatly wish that they'd share exactly what these plans are, It wouldn't be too hard to fathom that it would involve some combination of (a) Clan chassis Buffs, or (b ) IS chassis nerfs, or (c) other changes to those lasers to make them similarly performing to IS lasers, but with without the massive alpha advantage they currently carry. (Perhaps burn time or heat management advantages, for example) I honestly do think that if these changes go through exactly as listed, and with no other changes, it would indeed result in half of the clan stable either needing to move to ERLL, or the garage. The IS at that point would have nearly equivalent alpha and heat management, but carry better burn times, cooldown times, and run on more durable, more agile chassis. Most of my clan play at that point would revolve around my MG lights, my Dakka Assaults, and the 2 or 3 Clan mechs with enough armor or speed to make good SRM Brawlers. (Linebacker and Orion, or maybe my boomcrow or LBX40 Hunchback if I'm feeling cheeky)

Edited by Daurock, 12 July 2018 - 06:37 AM.

[Leon Ward]

Yes, the Clanlasernerf is step 1!
And 5 months later comes the chassis nerf the IS (or the buff of the Clanchassis) and in the time you need then no Clanmech play???

[Y E O N N E]

Serenna187, on 12 July 2018 - 05:15 AM, said:

Sleep deprived me totally forgot about basic physics <_< but yes,fair point.Tho the sheer weight of a mech and ever present weapon stabilisation / recoil dampeners in any mech would negate that little recoil.Heavy Gauss is another thing..

It's not little recoil, though. You are shoving a 100 kilogram slug to 2000 m/s in only a few meters space. That's a big shove!

[Dungeon 206]

let it be known.
when enough players have left and there no longer is a viable poplulation...
when the MWO servers have to shut down and the game is put to death...
the one responsible is none other than the "professional" Balance Master...

its not an if... but a when.
alas what this game could have been.

Edited by Dungeon 206, 12 July 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[SmokedJag]

Tarl Cabot, on 12 July 2018 - 06:00 AM, said:

Just stop. Canon, storyline does NOT equal this computer game - STOCK Clan mechs are head over heel way better than STOCK IS/STAR LEAGUE mechs. Canon does not have MECHLABS like this game has. The closest canon gets to that is the omnimechs and the alternate configs with modular systems which takes a several hours to switch out, even then the computer systems are setup for specific weapon configuration, ie ALT config. Nor do Clan mechwarriors even own their mechs as said mechs belong to their unit and their setup at the time of the drop is based on the CO's directives.

Yeah while Clan unit commanders can boss everyone around to get a customized ride (a) it will be an OmniMech and ( b ) doing that inflates the value of it even more in both lore and BV.

Quote

And besides having a better setup, do not forget Clans had better gunnery/piloting skills. And to add the weaponry stats are based on a BOARD game using dice. In the base TT, each hex is 30m. Dice is used to determine hit/miss AND location for each weapon, not each weapon grouping (TIC)

Enter the bane of every MW game ever. As good shots as Clanners are, the TT rules don't allow for pounding on a component like a mouse crosshair does. As it stands even with the doubled armor and structure Clan loadouts can beat a 'Mech into scrap at a pace and reliability that in TT could only be accomplished by a Dire Wolf going after smaller 'Mechs. That's how much difference the weapons accuracy makes.

Every MWO balance decision has been trying to moderate this issue and to PGI's credit they have a more playable game than the MW3 or MW4 multiplayer approaches where defense was irrelevant if not impossible.

My problem with this balance proposal is that it is mostly addressing a paper issue. 90+ point Gauss vomit alpha is nowhere near as easy to deliver or as bad for the game as 40-60 point pinpoint Gauss+PPC. THAT needed to go; at an extreme with no PGI changes Clans could instantly fire 75 damage that could not be mitigated (2xGauss + 3 ERPPC is valid). THAT would wreck the game. This does not.

Edited by SmokedJag, 12 July 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[Reno Blade]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 11 July 2018 - 01:38 PM, said:

No our builds will not still work. No they will not only be 15% stronger than IS counterparts. No this will not finally bring clan lasers in line. It will make clan lasers significantly underpowered at every range bracket except the extreme range bracket, that's just the name of the game.

This patch will do nothing to rectify the fact that most other clan weapons are dismal compared to IS offerings. Yes you heard me correctly: they are dismal. Read: inferior. Yes the clan UAC/20 is bad weapon, so are our SRMS, or are our ATMs, so are our standard autocannons. Everything else of ours is mediocre. Not compared to our lasers, compared to the IS lasers, compared to all of the IS weaponry. People don't run clan lasers because they're too good to run anything else Reno, they clan lasers because everything else clan is mediocre to bad.

If clan non-laser weapons stacked up to IS offerings you'd see more of them in the field, even if the lasers were better, same way as you do see plenty of different IS builds take the field that aren't the bleeding edge of the meta.

At the end of the day I think you only like these changes because you desperately want TTK to go up and you dream of an MWO where nerfage finally brings TTK into that high state you're looking for. I'm sorry to say, you might be on a peninsula where the water is kinda lapping up to cover the sandbar that connects you to the rest of the continent, if you catch my drift. And even if PGI is on it with you, if you guys kill this game, nobody is going to play it with you, and you can't argue and reason with people into having fun

Thanks for the detailed reply.

I want to repeat that I am not happy with the results from the complete numbers.
The dmg nerf itself is OK, but I would prefere to have less heat overall and use Med+Large linked Ghost heat.
That way the builds that don't stack both are actually working and even boats would still work, but have to stagger fire to prevent GH.
My balancing would nerf many more weapons (e.g. even HGauss and MRMs), but it goes too far for this community (unfun), so even if I suggest nerfs to IS lasers, it won't change peoples view of me being more crazy than chris.

Then regarding the mediocre weapons:
I've seen Taro post a picture of a weapon chart from OP->great->good->bad->mediocre.
Some I agree, but overall I have a different view of the power gap.
I don't see most of the weapons below average (e.g. all non-lasers you feel are mediocre at best).
With this different "baseline" view, ofc our opinion on what is good and what is useless will differ.

I feel that the clan weapons handling/performance itself might be a bit below the same weapon on the IS side, BUT you can pack more of them in your mechs because of size, tons, DHS, Endo, cXL...
With all the advantages, I think the overall balancing of the weapons are about right (besides the lasers), as the better builds can balance out the more difficult handling of the weapons.
-> as it should be. Imho clan tech should only be better in hands of elite clan warriors (put lore bla bla here) because they can get 100% out of the tech (e.g. complete beam duration) and not just because everything is better/stronger.

I think PGI's try to make Clans different, but not outright superior by making weapons more difficult (beam duration and heat) works in general and is better than just having more dmg.
That's why I welcome the reduction of the damage.
When I tried to get clan lasers to do the same dps/ton (spreadsheet) the Heavy lasers would need 6s cd + 2s duration or more... reducing the damage is better to balance.

Yeonne Greene, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

For the record, Clan lasers currently have DPH so similar to IS as to be largely meaningless while being able to mount more DHS outside of the Light class.

Like, the ER lasers are all within a few hundredths of a point except the Large. The Clan Pulse are more analogous in specs and in-game performance to standard IS lasers and are also all within a few hundredths except for the standard IS Small (though despite being 2.95 DPH, the IS Small does so little damage nobody takes it anyway just like the Micros).

So saying "Clans run hot" is and always has been a misnomer, because that's just appearances. They do not run hotter from a pure damage-over-heat-over-dissipation perspective, as is evidenced by the sustained alpha-strike DPS number you find on Smurphy's.

Yeonne Greene, on 11 July 2018 - 11:17 PM, said:

SLs only have utility as poor-man's MPLs on Lights. Otherwise, not damaging enough to matter and you are better off dedicating that tonnage to your primary armament.

Below 300 meters, the cHSL, cERSL and cSPL are still running much higher sustained DPS all said-and-done with higher alphas than you can achieve with isSL, isERSL, and isSPL, not that either side's SPLs are anything to write home about. Exception for Lights, where the Clans do not have a significant tonnage advantage to cool them and the duration makes them sub-optimal.

I also would point out that the IS do not even use lasers under 330 meters, either, they just go to SRMs or MRMs and they use ballistics from 0-900. The only significant IS use of lasers outside of the Clan power-zone is on classic fast Lights, where Clan lasers are terrible since you can't apply the Clan tonnage advantage to cool them and duration gets them killed. Otherwise, the overwhelming majority of IS laser builds are operating at mid-range with combinations of Large- and Medium-class lasers with a handful running ER Larges...same as the Clans.

As for bringing up ballistics at all, Clans run all types colder outside of RACs because the heat is the same as the IS ones but with more DHS. RAC/2 is the sole exception, as RAC/5 are quite hot and both RAC sizes are unfocused even relative to the more disparate cUACs. MRMs and ATMs are similarly efficient as each other, though they obviously do not quite behave the same ways and perform the same roles. Either way, doesn't matter because that's you moving the goal-post in a discussion about lasers efficiency and, in that case, I am not wrong.

This sounds more like a good analysis than most posts in here complaining about the laser nerfs without giving reasons.
Thanks for explaining the details here.

[ArcRoyale]

How many people have said the game is about to die... when? Oh yes, as early as Gold Mechs. That was... 2014, I believe?

That said...

SmokedJag, on 12 July 2018 - 04:19 AM, said:

The bigger Clan RP restriction than zellbringen was bidding. It's not "dishonorable" to refuse to use zellbringen once the Inner Sphere is no longer dueling or is using weapons/tech that would otherwise be prohibited in it. An Inner Sphere opponent will normally not want to duel because, well, short of Civil War tech they will lose.

Cowardice (e.g. kiting, peeking, LRM boating) IS still looked down on because it reflects badly on you personally rather than having anything to do with the enemy. Almost by definition in Clan thought a dishonorable enemy is inferior to the point you really should not need such tactics even if technically legal.

However it is dishonorable, always, to send down equal or superior BV of custom-picked, custom-built 'Mechs to deal with said Inner Sphere. Matching tonnage will exceed the BV of the Inner Sphere side, in some cases drastically so. The Timber Wolf has a BV much higher than an invasion-era Inner Sphere *assault* 'Mech (and justifiably so). Clan assaults exceed their Inner Sphere couterparts by 50-100%. These are stock configurations, not customs. So reasonable RP Bidding means that a Clan force is much fewer in number, much lighter in tonnage or in some cases both.

And a custom Clan *BattleMech* would be absolutely prohibited (IRL the player is a munchkin). Lore-wise that is second-line equipment piloted by second-rate warrior that would not have the pull to mod it.

Sometimes I forget I'm some kinda weirdo who plays TT configs for fun instead of playing the game the "right" way. Ah well, like I said, Tier 5. XD

[Steve Pryde]

Can't wait to test this Dire Wolf mega wub build

Als teh wubz are belong to us.

[Grus]

Steve Pryde, on 12 July 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

Can't wait to test this Dire Wolf mega wub build

Als teh wubz are belong to us.

mediocre...

[MegaCyberWolf]

Seems to me, after reading all the feedback, that battle value is a huge missed opportunity; both for the game, and the forums. I'm being serious. I think battle value could be great for the game, and the forums.

In the forums, we can't argue about tonnage. Tonnage is tonnage. But we can argue about battle value. PGI can stop "balancing" weapons and mechs, and balance bv. We can argue about bv balance for years to come.

To fully embrace this model, the game should have asymmetrical battles. Hear me out. Clan players would earn the honor of playing clan mechs, by being elite players. Also players could pay real money for the privilege of playing clans. *trollface

Elite players should enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of killing hordes of potato scrub ftp IS players. IS players will enjoy numerical and/or tonnage superiority.

Edit, forgot to add, "battle value nerf?, your mech just became more valuable" *trollface

Just my thoughts

MCW

Recently a Nova pilot.

Edited by MegaCyberWolf, 12 July 2018 - 07:36 PM.

[Six-Pack]

Yeonne Greene, on 11 July 2018 - 07:45 PM, said:

For the record, Clan lasers currently have DPH so similar to IS as to be largely meaningless while being able to mount more DHS outside of the Light class.

Like, the ER lasers are all within a few hundredths of a point except the Large. The Clan Pulse are more analogous in specs and in-game performance to standard IS lasers and are also all within a few hundredths except for the standard IS Small (though despite being 2.95 DPH, the IS Small does so little damage nobody takes it anyway just like the Micros).

So saying "Clans run hot" is and always has been a misnomer, because that's just appearances. They do not run hotter from a pure damage-over-heat-over-dissipation perspective, as is evidenced by the sustained alpha-strike DPS number you find on Smurphy's.

These people don't want to be objective, they want to drop the mic and say: "I'm done" to show off rather than critically think things through. All the advantages that clan tech has are brushed away by the magic phrase: "IS armor quirks". So is it any good trying to catter to such an audience?

[admiralbenbow123]

Here is my idea on how to nerf "94 damage" clan alpha strikes and to keep everyone more or less happy: add a damage cap of about 40-50 damage on clan laser alpha strikes. This way whenever an alpha strike goes beyond the damage cap ghost heat (a lot of ghost heat) will be generated.

Let me know what you think of my idea. I will be happy to hear your feedback!

Edited by admiralbenbow123, 13 July 2018 - 01:38 AM.