50 replies to this topic

[lazorbeamz]

I d like to voice my opinion about PTS and support the devs in what they are doing, Just so that they are aware that there are people that are happy with the change.

A while ago there were two things that many players have been asking for.
1)Nerf clan medium laser vomit.
2)Improve brawling gameplay.

Both of these are going to be acheived with said PTS change at once which is simply great for me. Brawling will be much less discouraged now.

A short overview of laser changes:

-Clan medium range vomit loses quite a lot of alpha damage.

-Some damage per heat is lost. But this is more then compensated by better double heat sink cooling on clan mechs. Sustained laser dps is still better for the clans.

-Range advantage is retained.

-clan large vomit is improved with 3 lasers instead of 2 before ghost heat.

I could not really ask for a better patch. That being said i am aware that clan mechs are going to be worse in 1v1 situations. But i think that statistics show that clan mechs are great in actual quick play because they have meatshields.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 08 July 2018 - 02:32 PM.

[roboPrancer]

Actually if you analyze the changes that will happen in the meta from these proposed changes you will find that this actually nerfs brawling even more, and strengthens long range clan laser/gauss vomit

[Wingbreaker]

lazorbeamz, on 08 July 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

Sustained laser dps is still better for the clans.

Apparently maths is hard.

ERMLs

Clan
Current live: 7d@4.5+1.25 (5.75)= 1.21dps
PTS: 5.25d@4+1.25(5.25) = 1dps

IS
5d@4+.9 (4.9) = 1.02 dps

PTS Patch notes said:

This does not mean that the goal is to see this cap be equal on both sides, but that the gulf that currently exists between the average Clan Alpha centric build and Inner Sphere Alpha centric build should not be as vast as it is currently in-game.

Whoopsie.

For the record, the problem is due to the fact that while damage is being reduced by 25%, total cycle time is being reduced by 12.5%. The damage per tick is especially bad within the pervue of the cERMED with this change, which frankly will hurt lighter mechs more than heavier since those mechs will merely change to ERLL/LPL builds.

This is a very silly idea.

Edited by Wingbreaker, 08 July 2018 - 03:03 PM.

[Brizna]

They are reducing damage but also CD on the weapons, they are turning laser into machine guns. They are encouraging spray and pray firing over firing discipline. It's going to be boring just as cSPL nerf was.

I still play this game, but I no longer care enough to bother.

[lazorbeamz]

Wingbreaker, on 08 July 2018 - 02:50 PM, said:

Apparently maths is hard.

ERMLs

Clan
Current live: 7d@4.5+1.25 (5.75)= 1.21dps
PTS: 5.25d@4+1.25(5.25) = 1dps

IS
5d@4+.9 (4.9) = 1.02 dps



Whoopsie.

Apparently you arent even sure what you are talking about. Sustained dps is not calculated like that at all. Whatever you are counting on is momentary or initial dps which is completely outside of discussion here.

[Battlemaster56]

I don't see how this even encourage brawl at the slightest, all I see is the greater push to a new guass/laser vomit combos while the status quo mechs still left untouched, lbx/ac/whatever small laser+srms not gonna make a huge combat players still gonna run laser and gauss vomit because it safer and more reliable.

This whole pts change is a huge collateral damage over two weapons that been so dominate for a while. and only got one thing right about and that was to nerf HLL damage by 2 points.

[lazorbeamz]

Battlemaster56, on 08 July 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

I don't see how this even encourage brawl at the slightest, all I see is the greater push to a new guass/laser vomit combos while the status quo mechs still left untouched, lbx/ac/whatever small laser+srms not gonna make a huge combat players still gonna run laser and gauss vomit because it safer and more reliable.

This whole pts change is a huge collateral damage over two weapons that been so dominate for a while. and only got one thing right about and that was to nerf HLL damage by 2 points.

Popular laser vomits have received large damage reductions.

6erml 2 hll: 78 damage -> 62 damage

All medium vomits now deal around 62 damage per alpha and all the clan lasers now have shorter cooldowns so in fact they have retained their dps values pretty closely but you will have to activate your weapons more often to keep up the listed dps and it is always more risky for a peeker. Plus a brawler will take a smaller alpha before getting close to you.

Edited by lazorbeamz, 09 July 2018 - 01:39 AM.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Battlemaster56, on 08 July 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

and only got one thing right about and that was to nerf HLL damage by 2 points.

The HLLs are not a good pick even now. With a burn this long you're not doing full damage most of the time. Yet you always get full heat.
With lowered damage there will be even less sense using them. So, no, thats not the rigth thing to do.

[Scout Derek]

Nema Nabojiv, on 09 July 2018 - 01:57 AM, said:

The HLLs are not a good pick even now. With a burn this long you're not doing full damage most of the time. Yet you always get full heat.
With lowered damage there will be even less sense using them. So, no, thats not the rigth thing to do.

Remember the pts version?

They were horrible for a looong time.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Scout Derek, on 09 July 2018 - 02:00 AM, said:

Remember the pts version?

They were horrible for a looong time.

Civil war PTS? Actually no, what were they like?

[Vesper11]

lazorbeamz, on 09 July 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

Popular laser vomits have received large damage reductions.

6erml 2 hll: 78 damage -> 62 damage

All medium vomits now deal around 62 damage per alpha and all the clan lasers now have shorter cooldowns so in fact they have retained their dps values pretty closely but you will have to activate your weapons more often to keep up the listed dps and it is always more risky for a peeker. Plus a brawler will take a smaller alpha before getting close to you.

Here, have a taste of my copypasta, Mr.NotSureIfTrollingOrJust...:
cERSL:
DPS: 1.09 DPH: 1.43 - old and somewhat bad
DPS: 1.02 DPH: 1.38 - new and even worse
compare to
ERSL:
DPS: 0.93 DPH: 1.48
SL:
DPS: 1.08 DPH: 2.95 -50m really, why do ERSLs even exist, oh right, it's to make cERSL nerfs look "balanced"
cSPL:
DPS: 1.60 DPH: 1.95 -50m +0.5t (now PGI will nerf it too)
cERML:
DPS: 1.22 DPH: 1.11
DPS: 1.00 DPH: 0.92
ERML:
DPS: 1.02 DPH: 1.11 -40m yes, clan lasers are not only hotter and have longer burn but now also weaker!
cERLL:
DPS: 2.16 DPH: 1.10
DPS: 1.96 DPH: 1.00
ERLL:
DPS: 2.00 DPH: 1.13 -65m +1t never was a fan of (c)ERLLs
cMPL:
DPS: 1.79 DPH: 1.47
DPS: 1.60 DPH: 1.39
MPL:
DPS: 1.76 DPH: 1.58 -110m and this is the reason for cMPL nerf, because MPL sucks so much they brought cMPL down to its level.
ERML:
DPS: 1.02 DPH: 1.11 +30m -1t
cLPL:
DPS: 2.80 DPH: 1.20
DPS: 2.55 DPH: 1.09
LPL:
DPS: 2.72 DPH: 1.38 -235m +1t LPL sux
LL:
DPS: 2.14 DPH: 1.29 -150m -1t 450m is good enough tho and a bit better DPS per ton but still very bad DPS per ton for laser
ERLL:
DPS: 2.00 DPH: 1.13 +75m -1t thus slightly lower DPS per ton
cHML:
DPS: 1.44 DPH: 1.25
DPS: 1.16 DPH: 1.14 - now even more useless
ML:
DPS: 1.14 DPH: 1.47
cHSL:
DPS: 1.25 DPH: 1.73 -155m, yep now larger lasers are also weaker, hotter and longer burn than already bad smaller lasers
cHLL:
DPS: 2.47 DPH: 1.13
DPS: 2.20 DPH: 1.00
LL:
DPS: 2.14 DPH: 1.29 +1t


1) Brawling is ded not because LAZORS OP NERF NAO
2) Sustained DPS is way lower than it was as not only DPS is now lower but Damage per Heat too
3) Non-popular lasers got nerfed too
4) Medium and light mechs that are more effective in brawling ranges got nerfed even more
5) Some nerfs are simply ******** and make no sense, cERML has lower DPH than PPC, cHML has lower DPS than cHSL, cERSL was already bad and deserved no ****
6) Boogeyman combo is still there
7) Higher sustained DPS with 20+ DHS argument is irrelevant as at that point IS starts packing ballistics. And if DHS on IS is the problem they could always buff non-small IS lasers DPH instead of gutting clans.

Edited by Vesper11, 09 July 2018 - 02:30 AM.

[Bud Crue]

lazorbeamz, on 08 July 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

I could not really ask for a better patch. That being said i am aware that clan mechs are going to be worse in 1v1 situations. But i think that statistics show that clan mechs are great in actual quick play because they have meatshields.

I’d like to parse the above to illustrate the idiocy of these sentences, but instead I think you should go to your room without dinner and think very hard about what you just wrote, and don’t come out until you are ready to fess up to just how stupid it is to assert that these proposed changes will result in clans mechs being “great”,“because they have meatshields” in QP.

You should be ashamed of yourself. Now go wash your keyboard out with soap.

[SFC174]

lazorbeamz, on 08 July 2018 - 02:29 PM, said:

….Both of these are going to be acheived with said PTS change at once which is simply great for me. Brawling will be much less discouraged now.

I could not really ask for a better patch. That being said i am aware that clan mechs are going to be worse in 1v1 situations. But i think that statistics show that clan mechs are great in actual quick play because they have meatshields.

So, what Clan mech will you brawl with if these changes go through? What Clan mechs are you brawling with now?

Clan mechs already get stomped pretty hard in Solaris (with a few exceptions). But it's ok if they get even worse in 1v1 because they can just hide behind an IS mech in QP?

We get some good legal marijuana here in California now, but nothing like this. Where is your dispensary?

[lazorbeamz]

You are not bound to brawl with clan mechs bro. If you re doing it then you are doing it wrong. Our brawlers will be less discouraged to even play the game after this change. Just hoping that it goes live faster because i want to play it and not just play forum warrior online.

"pls nerf clan laser vomit! alpha too strong"

two weeks later

"omg stop nerfing clans you are ruining our fun"

[Battlemaster56]

Go ahead have fun trying to brawl while I poke with my 80.5 damage gauss vomit Deathstrike or 85.75 damage guass vomit Dire Wolf W because the snipe meta will be thing with these changes hell the 6erll Supernova gonna enjoy this.

Edited by Battlemaster56, 09 July 2018 - 04:55 AM.

[lazorbeamz]

Battlemaster56, on 09 July 2018 - 04:53 AM, said:

Go ahead have fun trying to brawl while I poke with my 80.5 damage gauss vomit Deathstrike or 85.75 damage guass vomit Dire Wolf W because the snipe meta will be thing with these changes hell the 6erll Supernova gonna enjoy this.

Those at least are 90 ton mechs and not some stupid 50 tonner that has an alpha similar to a 100 tonner. 90 tonners should be able to do that. And eat strikes shortly after.

[Battlemaster56]

lazorbeamz, on 09 July 2018 - 05:08 AM, said:

Those at least are 90 ton mechs and not some stupid 50 tonner that has an alpha similar to a 100 tonner. 90 tonners should be able to do that. And eat strikes shortly after.

You mean the Hunchback IIC A, Huntsman, probably the Stormcrow, tell me what other mediums are able to push their damage atleast to 70 without melting themselves because right now those three are the only ones I find able to bring Hellbringer laser vomit damage.

[Eisenhorne]

Nobody really used HLL's very much before, so the damage nerf there won't make a difference. All clan laservomit builds will shift to 3 ERLL + 3-5 ERML, so effectively clanners are trading a bit of short range firepower for longer range firepower. I do not look forward to playing against clanners on Boreal in FP after these changes go through. They are giving clanners a massive long range buff, while only nerfing mechs that do not have the tonnage to boat ERLL's. So it's not going to change a damn thing about the bugaboo clan mechs like the Mad Cat II or Dire Wolf, its a trade off for the clanner heavies since they trade midrange for long range firepower, and clan mediums and lights that relied on ERML's get shafted pretty hard.

Nothing about this sounds good IMO. Better firepower in the 650+ meter range band is the last thing I think clanners needed.

[SFC174]

lazorbeamz, on 09 July 2018 - 04:46 AM, said:

You are not bound to brawl with clan mechs bro. If you re doing it then you are doing it wrong. Our brawlers will be less discouraged to even play the game after this change. Just hoping that it goes live faster because i want to play it and not just play forum warrior online.

"pls nerf clan laser vomit! alpha too strong"

two weeks later

"omg stop nerfing clans you are ruining our fun"

Ah, so you want to confine clans to long range poke meta? You don't want multiple play styles to be viable for both Clan and IS? So you're really not interested in balance, just making sure your IS brawlers have an advantage?

It burns, it burns so bad.

[TWIAFU]

SFC174, on 09 July 2018 - 05:44 AM, said:

Ah, so you want to confine clans to long range poke meta? You don't want multiple play styles to be viable for both Clan and IS? So you're really not interested in balance, just making sure your IS brawlers have an advantage?

It burns, it burns so bad.

Balance the tech bases so long as Clan remain superior so that pilots lacking in 'skill' do not have to gain skill but can use the tech 'advantage' as a crutch.

Then when IS come along and refuse the Clans to use that crutch we can go back to IS OP plz nerf.

Maybe we just need to hard code that IS mechs cannot move closer then optimal range of Clan weapons? That way they can keep the pug shooting gallery going.