70 replies to this topic

[NimoStar]

The problem with lasers is not that they are "overpowered" per se, but that they have no counter.

Ballistics has travel time and ammo limits which makes them dodgable. LBX and UAC also have dispersion, Gauss has charge. PPCs work similar to ballistics and also are high tonnage, most have min range.

Missiles have AMS, and depending on the type also ECM, Stealth and radar deprivation.

Against lasers, you have no specific way of defending yourself. Always pinpont damage at any distance, instantly traveling.

The solution is not to nerf laser damage then, because pros will find it a way to make it work by just following CT or most damaged component as enemies travel like they do now.

The solution is to introduce equipment which works as a counter to lasers

My proposal is this:

Reflective Armor: Reduce beam damage by -30%, 10% heavier than Standard armor, -7 slots (like ligh ferro fibrous but heavier instead of lighter)

Something like this as most of you will know what implemented in MW4 so it is already time-tested and balanced...

[NimoStar]

That in this hyper-negative forum nobody can say anything is a testament to the perfection of this solution :V

[Vellron2005]

30% is too much.. 20% seems better.

Also, add it to both Clan and IS.. Also add Reactive armor, which provides the same protection against Ballistics.

[Zigmund Freud]

Yes, please. And also it shouldn't require much coding, so I would assume it can be implemented easily.

[LordNothing]

more stuff is good. anything to make the game interesting again.

[Dogstar]

While I support the idea of adding reflective armour we still need to heavily reduce the massive laser alphas. Adding reflective armour as a counter just because we have huge laser damage is a stupid idea.

[Mortalcoil]

The less equipment that devolves into paper rock scissors the better.

[Chados]

I think adding reflective and reactive armor is a good solution.

I understand what Paul and Chris are trying to do with the laser nerfs. But the Clan mechs eclipse the IS in popularity and the biggest spuds in the game are almost always boating something in a big Clan mech. Usually it’s lasers or LRMs. Nerfs are negative and will drive players out of the game because their favorite noob tube gets broke.

I hate Hellbringers. Hot, boring, lousy hitboxes. But I got out the unskilled...UNSKILLED...HBR-F(L), and loaded it up with 2xHLL, 2xHML, and 3xERML, ECM, and all the heatsinks I could stuff in with max armor. Result: A 77 point, repeatable alpha strike that can be triggered at least three straight shots on Caustic Valley. However...dat duration. I’ve had a multilaser HBR try to dump that into any mobile platform like a Dragon or even an Uziel and nopenopenope because they’re laser swording all over the place and just getting a fraction of the burn on me. A threat? Oh yes, in the right (i.e. not my) hands. But for the most part, not too scary. What’s scary? An Ultraviolet. A Bushwacker. Scorches and Deathstrikes. With lots of autocannons, all. Or Piranhas with all those machine guns. Ciphers, with 6mg and all those microlasers, are scarier than a laser HBR all day every day. I’m just not sure that mega-alphas are the yuge issue everyone thinks that they are, when one is in a platform with greater mobility and high hardpoints that can use terrain masking to advantage.

What about nerfing agility and speed on high alpha platforms and boosting it on mechs with less hardpoints? And making mechs with less hardpoints a little smaller than they are? If the Uziel was three quarters its current size it would be a much better mech. I know that is counterintuitive for the idea that Clans=godly fast, agile, high firepower, but would it perhaps not be better than nerfing weapons? Restoring engine/mobility sync would be a good thing, as it would drive alphas down and mobility up as people race to fit the biggest engine possible again. Buffing jump jets would encourage their use-but it needs to be done in a way that you have to equip multiple jets to get the bonus and not have players just mount one. I used to think that buffing mobility encouraged twitch play and poo-poohed T1 players claiming otherwise. Now I’m not so sure that they’re wrong about that.

Edited by Chados, 10 July 2018 - 02:57 AM.

[Abaddun]

This is genius. Though rather then a solid reduction in damages, I would suggest a 10% net damage reduction a a 20% splash effect, that is to say a further 20% of the damages dealt will instead be dealt to areas surrounding the targeted location.

I will note that this will gimp ERsmlls even more, and hurts IS lasers, but I think the tradeoff will be worth it.

[The Mysterious Fox]

i suggested reactive and reflective armour 2 years ago and people shat on me. what changed

[Nik Reaper]

Though it sounds as a good idea, if implemented as rules say it wouldn't be all that good as it is basically ferro-fiberous without the weight savings, and the mechs that need it most are IS heavys and assaults and those usually don't have the extra space for armor slots... in that case the damage reduction would have to be real.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 10 July 2018 - 04:20 AM.

[Dogstar]

The Mysterious Fox, on 10 July 2018 - 04:08 AM, said:

i suggested reactive and reflective armour 2 years ago and people shat on me. what changed

People are suddenly desperate to avoid laser chnages that have been a long time coming

[MTier Slayed Up]

Dogstar, on 10 July 2018 - 01:37 AM, said:

While I support the idea of adding reflective armour we still need to heavily reduce the massive laser alphas. Adding reflective armour as a counter just because we have huge laser damage is a stupid idea.

How is this any different with AMS vs Anything missile related?

I'm 100% behind this idea. A 25%/30% reduction against laser boat builds would be a perfect solution.

[Dogstar]

DrtyDshSoap, on 10 July 2018 - 05:32 AM, said:

How is this any different with AMS vs Anything missile related?

I'm 100% behind this idea. A 25%/30% reduction against laser boat builds would be a perfect solution.

I agree with you but I don't think it should be added instead of reducing laser alphas.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Let me give you a perspective on it then. We'll rock the math with the current clan laser damage we have. For the sake of argument, we'll ignore burn time, damage per tick, and use 30% damage reduction. (Lore states 50%, but that may be a bit overkill).

Before Relective:
Clan ER-PPC: 15 dmg
Clan Flamer: .10 dmg
Clan Micro: 2.5 dmg
Clan ER-S: 5 dmg
Clan ER-M: 7 dmg
Clan ER-L: 11 dmg
Clan HSL: 6.5 dmg
Clan HML: 10 dmg
Clan HLL: 16 dmg
Clan SPL: 4 dmg
Clan MPL: 7 dmg
Clan LPL: 12 dmg

After Reflective:
Clan ER-PPC: 10.5 dmg
Clan Flamer: 07 dmg
Clan Micro: 1.75 dmg
Clan ER-S: 3.5 dmg
Clan ER-M: 4.9 dmg
Clan ER-L: 7.7 dmg
Clan HSL: 4.55 dmg
Clan HML: 7 dmg
Clan HLL: 11.2 dmg
Clan SPL: 2.8 dmg
Clan MPL: 4.9 dmg
Clan LPL: 8.4 dmg

We'll use the 94 alpha build now. 30 of it is tied to dual gauss, 64 is torwards lasers. We come out to: 81.8 dmg. 82 if we want to round it. Not bad considering that's 12 points of damage shaved off. This is of course assuming my kindergarden math isn't off.

It's not a hard counter against gauss vomit, but it'll severaly limit hell bringer builds from 64 damage to a wimpy 49.9 damage.

Sign me up for the petition.

Edited by DrtyDshSoap, 10 July 2018 - 06:14 AM.

[Edustaja]

Lasers have burn time as the negative. You could just bump it some.

Reflective armor is an OK idea also.

[Nightbird]

3080 tech, not available in 3062

http://www.sarna.net...eflective_Armor

[Aidan Crenshaw]

Reflective armour hits IS and Clan lasers alike. I don't think it's the golden lamb solution everyone is looking for.

[Marlowe Lecter]

Its very telling that not a single person has mentioned TORSO TWISTING in this argument. Totally negates "pin point" alphas of lasers.

[MTier Slayed Up]

Marlowe Lecter, on 10 July 2018 - 06:41 AM, said:

Its very telling that not a single person has mentioned TORSO TWISTING in this argument. Totally negates "pin point" alphas of lasers.

You'd be shocked at how many people stare into the sun as a hobby.