119 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 July 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

Base IS AC have greater ranges than Clans? ROFL.. Clan optimal ranges are greater than than IS optimal ranges. The only difference is where the isLBX still retains the default 3x ranges from when PGI originally setup ballistics to have their max range set at 3x their optimal range, but Clans still retains greater optimal ranges on LBX2-5 while the LBX10-20 are the same as IS.

As for pellets per shot, I wont argue that the only solid shot for a ballistic should have been the Gauss Rifle line.

IS
AC2 720 / 1440
AC5 620 / 1240
AC10 450 / 900
AC 20 270 / 540

UAC2 700 / 1400
UAC5 600 / 1200
UAC10 450 / 900
UAC20 270 / 540

Clan
(does anyone actually use Clan AC, originally a Placeholder)
cAC2 900 / 1800 vs 700 / 1400
cAC5 720 / 1440 vs 620 / 1240
cAC10 540 / 1080 vs 450 / 900
cAC 20 360 / 720 vs 270 / 540

cUAC2 810 / 1620 vs 700 / 1400
cUAC5 630 / 1260 vs 600 / 1200
cUAC10 540 / 1080 vs 450 / 900
cUAC20 360 / 720 vs 270 / 540



Clans may have had lots of time but the improvements were in the tech, primarily downsizing it, but more importantly the STOCK mode. Mechwarriors did NOT have acess to a mechlab to play and switch things up on their mechs. When the storytellers played out their scenarios, FASA ran their playtesting, etc, it was done with STOCK mechs. Have you actually looked at IS stock mechs?

When FASA first playtested Clan vs IS forces, Clans were using Star League era mechs...Have you actually looked at those stock load outs? IS brought the Clans to a standstill without Comstar and their own stockpile of Star League era mechs. Remember, IS still brought more equipment each time while the Clans did their own thing, that says a lot about Star League era stock mechs not having a huge advantage. Even though Clans had better gunnery and piloting skills, stock IS and Star League mechs tend to suck because they were not specialized mechs. Then came actual Clan tech, Omnimechs, mechs that in a few hours could have their payloads changed out based on command of the commanders, payloads that brought the more hurt at better ranges than their IS counterparts. IS brought more mechs and used clan-wise :"dishonourable" tactics, essential IS was fighting a war, winner takes all, not an engagement where when one side loses that side is "adopted" by the other side, provided they survive the encounter. Can you see that happen between dracs and fedrats?

I did an entire set of screenshots for pure nz (I think it was him) showing side by side comparisons of every comparable ac/lbx/iac class and you can clearly see clan AC have equal or better range in EVERY category except lbx MAX range. So the four guns that IS has that can hit farther suffer from spreading as distance increases...

[Pure_NZ]

Tarl Cabot, on 29 July 2018 - 01:32 PM, said:

Base IS AC have greater ranges than Clans? ROFL.. Clan optimal ranges are greater than than IS optimal ranges. The only difference is where the isLBX still retains the default 3x ranges from when PGI originally setup ballistics to have their max range set at 3x their optimal range, but Clans still retains greater optimal ranges on LBX2-5 while the LBX10-20 are the same as IS.

As for pellets per shot, I wont argue that the only solid shot for a ballistic should have been the Gauss Rifle line.

IS
AC2 720 / 1440
AC5 620 / 1240
AC10 450 / 900
AC 20 270 / 540

UAC2 700 / 1400
UAC5 600 / 1200
UAC10 450 / 900
UAC20 270 / 540

Clan
(does anyone actually use Clan AC, originally a Placeholder)
cAC2 900 / 1800 vs 700 / 1400
cAC5 720 / 1440 vs 620 / 1240
cAC10 540 / 1080 vs 450 / 900
cAC 20 360 / 720 vs 270 / 540

cUAC2 810 / 1620 vs 700 / 1400
cUAC5 630 / 1260 vs 600 / 1200
cUAC10 540 / 1080 vs 450 / 900
cUAC20 360 / 720 vs 270 / 540



Clans may have had lots of time but the improvements were in the tech, primarily downsizing it, but more importantly the STOCK mode. Mechwarriors did NOT have acess to a mechlab to play and switch things up on their mechs. When the storytellers played out their scenarios, FASA ran their playtesting, etc, it was done with STOCK mechs. Have you actually looked at IS stock mechs?

When FASA first playtested Clan vs IS forces, Clans were using Star League era mechs...Have you actually looked at those stock load outs? IS brought the Clans to a standstill without Comstar and their own stockpile of Star League era mechs. Remember, IS still brought more equipment each time while the Clans did their own thing, that says a lot about Star League era stock mechs not having a huge advantage. Even though Clans had better gunnery and piloting skills, stock IS and Star League mechs tend to suck because they were not specialized mechs. Then came actual Clan tech, Omnimechs, mechs that in a few hours could have their payloads changed out based on command of the commanders, payloads that brought the more hurt at better ranges than their IS counterparts. IS brought more mechs and used clan-wise :"dishonourable" tactics, essential IS was fighting a war, winner takes all, not an engagement where when one side loses that side is "adopted" by the other side, provided they survive the encounter. Can you see that happen between dracs and fedrats?

Yes, it is right. Two month ago the properties was not the same.
And the IS LBX2 had not this 810/2430 range! All the LBXs have +50% range. It does not matter these spread more. These hit and cause serious damage, mainly 4 and 6 ones!
And the IS armor quirks? The lighter mech in the same types has +30% more structure points. For instance see the Marauders on both sides. Or Hellbringer vs Jagermech, they are 65tons weight. I let you search the others.
There are lots of IS tuning should be explained. Do not be stuck in one case.

[MovinTarget]

Pure NZ, on 29 July 2018 - 02:52 PM, said:

Yes, it is right. Two month ago the properties was not the same.
And the IS LBX2 had not this 810/2430 range! All the LBXs have +50% range. It does not matter these spread more. These hit and cause serious damage, mainly 4 and 6 ones!
And the IS armor quirks? The lighter mech in the same types has +30% more structure points. For instance see the Marauders on both sides. Or Hellbringer vs Jagermech, they are 65tons weight. I let you search the others.
There are lots of IS tuning should be explained. Do not be stuck in one case.

We need a kool-aid detox, stat!

[Kompleks Ognevoi Podderzhki 320]

U can go **** with ure new balance... - 51 players.

[Adarven]

Tested 2 builds - Hellbringer laservomit (2xHLL) and Madcat (2cgaus, 4x ERLL) - HLL - really long burn time, many times enemy mech come to the cover and whole dmg wasn delivered. Stopped shooting through narrow passes - same issue, not worth shooting, slow dmg transfer.
CGauss - not happy, bud manageble, ERLL - longer, long face time (due 2x 2ERLL groups)

[MovinTarget]

Bear in mind with the durations, apart from cerll, there was also a dmg buff so even if it feels like you don't always get the full burn on opponent, you are still doing comparable dmg to when the duration was shorter. It may not be the same exactly but if you do the maths it'll be close...

[Lupineuk]

Soo got 2 games in last night 15 minute wait thought okay got most of today to do it so far had a 2 hour queue which I cancelled to check if it was broken and now up to an hour and a half queue. Seems not getting this so wasted around 8 hours including patching fixing time.

[MovinTarget]

Seems PGI might do well to open up some kind of 1v1 mechanism that transcends S7 brackets... mech classification be damned, if there's no testing at all...

[Grus]

Kinski Orlawisch, on 27 July 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

K ..lets farm Clanmechs..Testing ...nothing? Just farming Clanmechs using IS Mechs?

thats what i was doing in my sliphnir.. still a powerhouse.

Kompleks Ognevoi Podderzhki 320, on 29 July 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

U can go **** with ure new balance... - 51 players.

I need your footer....

[Tina Benoit]

The PTS 1.1 Client is now closed

[MechaBattler]

Can I just say that I liked the state of Clan Pulse lasers in the first iteration. They felt more practical for brawling. Though my only experience with them on live has been with 4xC-Medium pulse on a Viper. So maybe my experience is skewed.

[Void Malign]

Tina Benoit, on 30 July 2018 - 10:21 AM, said:

The PTS 1.1 Client is now closed

Rest in peace, Clans
If this will be decided to roll out on live servers, this will look like continuation your attempt to rip clans little more. Since Clans were introduced in game there were a big amount of Clan nerf / IS buff iterations and all of them didn't give any valuable results, as it shows by this attempt. Interesting, why you just not remove all clan tech from game?

Edited by Void Malign, 30 July 2018 - 12:25 PM.

[MovinTarget]

Void Malign, on 30 July 2018 - 12:25 PM, said:

why you just not remove all clan tech from game?
/sarcasm

There, fixed it for you.

but just in case you were serious:

Because they are not stupid? You realize how much money they'd have to refund?

Whiners that want clans to be superior aside, the clans bring a lot of different styles to the game above and beyond the weapon/electronics options.

Not only would there be many owners crying, that would be sh!tting on people that spent a lot of work on bringing them to the game.

Pre-CivWar tech, we were actually in a good place with IS being tankier and clams being more offensive. The skill difference in FP was the problem and they just had to balance in the new tech, not rewrite everything.

[FrontlineAssembly]

The clan pulse laser is dead weapon if they make these changes permanent. Gauss recoil is there just to keep you from doing an alpha with Gauss. That is if you have more then Gauss included in your alpha strike. It's just a lame implementation.
The duration increases are nothing but an FU to clan players. None of the changes fix the original intent of all of this. So that being the case....what is the use of all of this??? Other then to piss off the player base. Except of course the IS fan boys that is.
As I stated in other posts when this first was announced. PGI you need to listen to the community, and also get to understand your own game! Otherwise...you will have a dead game real soon.
As to the PTS set up. I played the 10 matches the first day. Always had the same people in each match. Wait times were still in the 10 min range for each. While a couple of us actually ran clan mechs to test things out. Most just ran IS assaults to farm the clan mechs. which did nothing for the testing.
Again the PTS basically showed that PGI ran this as a way to make players think they had input to the process. When really we do not. And really PGI that warhorn was the best you could come up with???? I can't even say that was a half *** effort. It doesn't rate that high.

Edited by FrontlineAssembly, 30 July 2018 - 12:46 PM.

[Void Malign]

MovinTarget, on 30 July 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

There, fixed it for you.

Thanks. I know, I will see this moment

MovinTarget, on 30 July 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

Not only would there be many owners crying, that would be sh!tting on people that spent a lot of work on bringing them to the game.

But if we go serious, you still look at all what doing under "balance" flag from this point? I think this is already, as you said, 'sh!tting' on ppl, who spent many bucks on preorders, many time to play, many time to figure out good, bad, build for every mech. And you still thinking that half of clantech mechs dusting in our mechbays is a really good thing? that is a very odd point of view.

MovinTarget, on 30 July 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

Whiners that want clans to be superior aside, the clans bring a lot of different styles to the game above and beyond the weapon/electronics options.

Nope, I don't saying, that changes or new things is a bad. But there is nothing new also. 'CLANS ARE OP' whinning we can hear all the time, since they are introduced in game. but as someone (or not one ) mentioned above, if we take a look in Lore, we can agree, that Clans are must be OP. Because they are superior by default. They are moved out from IS to improve themselves and return back to ^{kick *** and chew bubblegum} bring the great ideas of Kherensky. But I'm sure you know this without my quotations from books. But this game already far from lore (only names of tech and some design least as I can see) . In that case devs are making this imitation of heavy activity calling this "balance" iterations. Instead of 'balance' weapon powers, for example,they can fix up (or probably introduce in FW) matchmaker, who must divide PUGs and premade-teams at FW as it was a problem year or two ago when whinning 'CLANS R OP" was strong (but was related to other thing, not to tech level), or make more balanced teams in QP based not only on a tier ratings but on stats like they already done for solaris. but instead they are focus on ^{doing Clan tech (lazors at this time) inplayable} response on this whinning and "balance" clantech over and over again looks weird, no?

MovinTarget, on 30 July 2018 - 12:39 PM, said:

Pre-CivWar tech, we were actually in a good place with IS being tankier and clams being more offensive. The skill difference in FP was the problem and they just had to balance in the new tech, not rewrite everything.

Again, I'm not talking that new things are bad. Nope. But please look what, for example, brought Civil War update for IS and what it brought for Clans? a wider range of weaponry for IS (u/AC2,10,20, heavy/light gausses, few different types of PPCs, unique RACs, who is in most cases are OP, but there is no whine, heh because they are comfortable) and a two weights of MGs and a couple of micro lasers for Clans. ahh, ATMs, yup. And, again, you think it is equal? And at this PTS series they are trying exactly re-write everything. Everything related to clan tech. and if be absolutely correct - related to 'overpowered' clan lasers at this time.

This is all particular. I'm staying with my opinion, what was formed up long time ago, that PGI just will be glad to completely remove or dig deeper clan tech, but they are won't do this in absolutely another reasons, not just because they are take care about player base and paying enough attention to community. And this is sad but of course this is only my personal point of view.
I loved this game. Some time ago.

Edited by Void Malign, 30 July 2018 - 02:54 PM.

[Ninjah]

Logical move from PGI after all of this should be canceling of further balancing, undoing of the LRM buff, some sort of Piranha nerf and a big nice "We're Sorry!" event. But PGI is going to PGI along and lose even the most hard core player base. Shame.

[Pure_NZ]

Ninjah, on 30 July 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Logical move from PGI after all of this should be canceling of further balancing, undoing of the LRM buff, some sort of Piranha nerf and a big nice "We're Sorry!" event. But PGI is going to PGI along and lose even the most hard core player base. Shame.

But at least, Russ Bullock feels good and can be satisfied, he overcame the CLANs.
It is his game, not ours.

[Mister Smile]

Fun is op, so PGI is getting rid of it (and most of the players)...

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Duration is so bad on the Clan lasers now, even the MPLs, that the lasers honestly felt like another form of spray and pray weapon. Only way you get a good burn is if you are still or moving steadily, he is still or moving steadily, there's no lag and he ignores getting shot and doesn't twist or react in any way... I got that kind of shot in maybe 1-2 out of every 10 shots?

Might as well just run LRMs you can fire without risking taking damage, or load up a dakka or srm brawler. Clan lasers were already iffy after sustained nerfing, and this will just make them trash.

As others have noted, the un-funning of MWO continues unabated.

Edited by ShooteyMcShooterson, 30 July 2018 - 03:01 PM.

[Pure_NZ]

There are more important problems in the game than the PGI's inflame with hatred of the CLANs.
Like the invisible edges. Indestructible objects, 99% of the objects... Moving decals. When I droped from the ship before its landing. Mechs walking in the air as a marionette..., etc, etc, etc...
Or this one...:
http://sendvid.com/qi6hmbt0

Edited by Pure NZ, 30 July 2018 - 05:02 PM.