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Faction Play - A New Hope (Pgi Taking Input)


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#121 Will9761

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 11:44 PM

Ok, I am going to try my hand at this so here we go:

Factions - Factions need to be better than what they are now. Sure, anyone could paint themselves purple and call themselves a Marik, but even that is not enough. What factions are now is just eye-candy on the forums. I wouldn't mind that but in the game that means little. There is no reason to be in a faction, even if you can muster up the excuse that you love the faction due to the books it still doesn't add that much of an incentive. The factions need to have rivalries and fanfare to make people want to go out and try that faction. They have to be unique.

One thing you could do is give us some faction NPCs as portraits. This would replace the old boring lore text of the faction and actually make it believable as if we we talking to an employer. HBS Battletech did this and it felt like we were mercenaries. CW Phase 2 did this to a point, but with no portrait. Just give us a notable personality like this:
Posted Image

Give them the Captain Adam treatment and put them in the FP screen. Even if you can't add voice actors/actresses, then text is good enough.
Posted Image


Posted Image

To make factions more unique give the command voices different dialogues based on what faction the player is with. For example, the player is with House Steiner so the dialogue would go like this for skirmish: "Soldiers to House Steiner Command, the Archon wants you to sweep any patrols you find. Good luck." If you were with Clan Smoke Jaguar, then you would hear something like this: "Warriors to Smoke Jaguar Command, wipe out these barbarians with the fury of the Jaguar! Show no mercy."

Spoiler


Rewards - The rewards we have now are lackluster and boring. Getting cockpit Items as rewards are pretty bland and uninteresting. Instead add in some faction colors, decals, faction mechs associated with that faction. That would certainly get a rise out of people. Imagine playing Clan Ghost Bear only to unlock the Ghost Bear Decal, then colors, then later on a Kodiak. For every rank a player progresses a new reward would be offered. Now if a new player wanted to bypass this with paying for real money, fine, but it never hurts to encourage new players or returning players with free stuff.

Rivalry Bonus - Every Faction has hatred towards each other, Davion hates Liao, Steiner hates Marik, Wolf hates Jade Falcon. Let players who kill their neighbors receive bonuses in XP, Loyality points, and so on for doing so.

Unit Coffers - I really think that the unit coffer need a better purpose. Taxing units is a poor way to use the system. If you are going to do that, than at least let the money being taxed go to the player I am hiring. Maybe give us something more like paying for our own colorable dropship or a customizable unit banner we can put on a planet. Anything better than unit taxing.

Heck, I'd even pay for coffer stuff like this.
Spoiler

Miscellaneous Stuff:
Faction Dropships - It would be nice if dropships had different colors depending on the attacker and defenders of the world. It makes sense because you are using their assets to travel on. For example on scouting on behalf on House Kurita, you manage to extract, only to see a red colored dropship with the Kurita logo firing at your enemies. Or imagine if you were a ghost bear player, and you had a white and light blue colored dropship covering your escape. HBS BattleTech also did this with their dropships showing different colors for extraction. So for faction dropships, just use the colors from the Resistance and Clan Wave II packs.

So please, PGI use the rich resources you have at hand from factions to personalities, to rivalres, etc. Use Sarna.net if you have to.

Edited by Will9761, 03 August 2018 - 04:28 PM.


#122 Xaat Xuun

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Posted 02 August 2018 - 11:46 PM

one thinng I forgot to add to my first post

Call to Arms should pop in the first 2 minutes, not the last 2

#123 Clownwarlord

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 01:01 AM

Maybe increase reward system or pay out for match for FW to help balance its output with QP if not boost it because the unbalanced matches one is most likely to get in the game mode.

#124 Bishop Six

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 02:22 AM

Woah, im off for some days and i find this wonderful Thread!

Thank you Paul for starting this conversation, it is very important for us to see this direct connection and to participate on your thoughts about FP!

I try to be realistic with your resources management, so i focus on Quick Wins:
  • Give community a tool for filling the planet descriptions (win-win for both)
  • IS vs IS and Clan vs. Clan and IS vs. Clan!
  • VOIP in lobby! Lobby 90 sec. at least!
  • More DropDecks!
  • Incursion - what others said, remove it or buff base HP
  • Loyalist Love (I'm General, my unit stays loyal, what am i supposed to do?!) - Loyalist Camo with cbills bonus (10-20 %) e.g. or MC transforming
  • Bonus for training beginners? (idk how, but people putting in their energy should be rewarded)
  • Friends list: Give me different colours and/or signs to see who is playing FP and who QP, who is grouped and so on
  • Events on a regularly base
  • Bonus (cbills) for going into LFG and group up
  • Some Siege maps reworking (choke points and so on)

Thanks Paul!

Edit: some minor points i forgot

Edited by Bishop Six, 03 August 2018 - 02:45 AM.


#125 Michal R

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 03:37 AM

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 03 August 2018 - 10:40 AM.
CONSTRUCTIVE feedback only please.


#126 Hanky Spam

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 03:55 AM

Unit life:
  • Introduce the option to distribute also CBills - just like MCs - to unit members
Faction play modes:
  • Remove Incursion from Faction Play which would be probably the best choice, Alternatively rework it......and make the base indestructible (don't forget to remove the turrets). Maybe consider to bring back also Long Tom but this time only to Incursion. With these measures the objective play would be promoted. However, right now in it's current state Incursion is just being played like Assault mode.

    Go to the enemy base and destroy (cap base in assault) it completely (match won) or bring it down to like 10% which forces the enemy team to stay close to or in their base.

    However, the same mode exists already and is known as "Assault".
  • Increase conquest cap points from 1250 to 1500.
  • Lower the amount of quick play modes in faction play, especially the chance for conquest.

UI (general and faction play UI):
  • We need more dropdecks! In return lower the dropdeck price a bit!
  • Fix the bug of offline friends that are being shown as online

    Alternatively introduce a friend list "refresh button" to receive an up to date friend list from the servers.
  • Introduce a "Favorite player" button. Just like bookmarking in webbrowsers works. Instead of scrolling through a large friendlist I could just go to my bookmarks and invite my non-unit homies to my group.
  • Return to Phase II Queue/Lobbies
  • Give us the option to decide in which drop zone we want to drop after the initial drop
Faction play (in general):
  • Incentives:


    Solaris has Boltons, which are unique in the game.

    What can faction play offer in return?

    We simply need more incentives and rewards that encourage people to play faction play at all! MCs can be purchased with real money, cbills by grinding FP or QP but there is simply nothing that is faction play unique!
  • Introduce new siege maps
  • Give us the possibility to have matches like Clan vs Clan and IS vs IS, also outside of faction play events!
    Maybe it's possible to introduce a "shadow/second bucket" to faction play. You are still in one "Clan vs IS" bucket but in the same time also in a second bucket which could lead to Clan vs Clan/IS vs IS depending on it which sides are more populated.

MWO (in general):
  • Give new accounts 7 days of premium time!


    When I started my first account in 2015 I received 7 days premium time which helped me quiet alot to easily get my first 2-3 mechs. While starting an Alt-Account in 2018 I had to figure out that those 7 days premium time were not granted anymore.

    Leveling and purchasing my first mechs is/was tough as **** and not very encouraging...

Edited by Hanky Spam, 03 August 2018 - 04:32 AM.


#127 TWIAFU

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:27 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 02 August 2018 - 10:19 AM, said:

Thanks for starting this justcallme A S H.

The only reason I mentioned that we'd be taking input after the FP podcast is because there are quite a few restraints that we have to work under.

I'll continue to monitor this thread as we prep the FP podcast and will pop in to address suggestions about what can and cannot be done.

Thanks again for the thread.

-Paul


If you can share those restraints we can tailor our feedback to meet within those restraints.

Work with us, share with us as much as you can. I guarantee we will come up with idea's to fit them and maybe even surprise you and ourselves.

We WANT this mode to be more then it is. A good deal of us are here ONLY for CW.

#128 TWIAFU

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:34 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 02 August 2018 - 04:10 PM, said:

Just gonna touch on something that I've seen here. (Don't worry.. all points are being read and looked at.)

Increasing defensive HP on Incursion. This is an issue that has a double edge to it. Yes, making a base really tough to take out makes it feel more like actually assaulting a hardened installation. However, what happens when Team A is down to 4 'Mechs remaining and Team B with 3 'Mechs decides to stay in the base. Team A is going to be pounding at the walls for a lonnng time just trying to get in.


A smart Team A would get air superiority and widdle down Team B in safety before an assault.

#129 McGoat

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 04:49 AM

Paul,

Thank you for not only reading behind the scenes but letting us know you're doing so and actually responding, that is a huge first step in placating this part of the community.

With the current population I have more or less stopped playing CW/FP. The guys I do play with (EVIL) are the only reason I would drop at this point, however the level of opposition remaining makes it no where near as fun as it was even just last year. The low pop compounds the issue of almost needing a 12 man team to guarantee a lobby, which makes dropping in smaller groups to make it more "fair" almost a no-go.

So I do hope that you guys carefully read what is collated at the end and do something to encourage community involvement. As it stands now many people no longer have a reason to play, which isn't only a CW/FP issue. I'd go so far as to say that no other aspect of the MWO player base is as invested as these guys; they are willing to sit and twiddle their thumbs hoping for matches, take care of them!

#130 Black Ivan

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 05:18 AM

FP needs population to work and that has to come from somewhere....

#131 Geg

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 05:24 AM

1. Go back to the FW2 Map and Faction system, but keep the single Queue. Let the teams vote on which conflict they want to fight in with a modifier (or abstain for a small C-Bill Bonus. Loyalist Pilots get multipliers.

2. If things are slow pit two teams on the same faction vs each other. Clan almost never gets to fight Clan.

3. Integrate GroupQueue drops into Faction (ala Scouting). Give each unit a progresses bar to fill up on a daily or weekly basis. Have that convert over into a multiplier, or some other bonus that the rest of the Unit (or Faction) can use. Just tossing some idea's out here: extra HP on the Gens / Objectives. Spawn Defense Dropship or Aero Space cover. Combat ID counter.

4. Scheduled Conflicts. Once a faction losses 10-20 planets. Freeze the conflict, and create a Counter Attack Event for later in the week (ideally only for a few hours) for the two belligerents. If the defending faction wins they throw back the attacker. If the attacking faction wins they keep their gains.



And Not Faction.

A. Create an ECM Consumable ala the Anti-UAV. If you are getting LRMed, you can pop one and retreat under a few seconds of ECM Cover.

#132 SilentFenris

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 06:00 AM

Throwing an idea out here that DEFINATELY will NOT be popular but would benefit Faction Play in the long run-

ALL PLAYERS/GROUPS ENTERING FACTION PLAY ARE AUTOMATICALLY ENTERED INTO LOOKING FOR GROUP AND CAN LAUNCH ONLY WITH 2 OR MORE PLAYERS IN GROUP.

Looking For Group is a great feature but seldom used. Why force players to use it?

- It would increase name recognition for the good dropcallers and units in the community.

- Even if you get a bad/toxic player, it is for one game and if your group is filled by PUGs you run the chance of bad players anyway. Kick them from the group before the next match.

- More organization means small teams and PUGs could compete better with 10 to 12 man premades.

- During the LFG release event I started a group several times, typically had zero problem members and actually had more fun. Since than, I have no seen anyone using the feature.

Edited by SilentFenris, 03 August 2018 - 06:09 AM.


#133 Lyons De Flamand

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 06:49 AM

* Cluster up the star map in groups of 15-25 planets and let both sides of the queue (Clan/IS Loyalists) decide which cluster to attack that week

* Go for a two bucket system, each side gets an attack queue and a defense queue.

* Use a ticket system instead of a tug of war and make every phase last a week. 75% Win ratio needed for the attacking faction to take over the cluster.

* Make it so it you need 40 odd phases to reach end goals.

* Numerical values subject to change pending maths

#134 SilentScreamer

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 08:10 AM


View PostPeiper, on 02 August 2018 - 09:50 PM, said:


BATTLE VALUE INSTEAD OF TONNAGE
Change tonnage to battle value. So, give every mech a battle value based upon the capabilities of the mech, and tell people they can take that much in the way of battle value. (This will have minimal impact on this game mode, but a big impact on quick play matchmaking, btw.) Battle value is simply a value of 1-100 based upon the capabilities and potential of the mech selected. A pre-nerf Kodiak might have 100 BV, pre-nerf Timber Wolf of 75. A pre-buff Atlas might have a BV of 80 and a pre-buff Orion might have a score of 60. (Currently, the scores are far more even by tonnage due to forcing unlike mechs to be equal.) In any case, the idea that all mechs of a certain weight are equal is bogus. This would change it so mechs are valued on what they can do, not their tonnage. It would both allow PGI the freedom to let the mechs be what they are instead of 'balancing them' into crap or god-ness, and get rid of the whole idea that mechs should be equal when they were never supposed to be in the first place.

TL;DR Battle value is a value of 1-100 based on mech ability. Use this to replace tonnage. Result: IS and Clan no longer have to be equal in tonnage, rather simply equal in battle value vs. each other. (Imagine, Clan mechs in their glory vs. bigger, angrier IS mechs! As it should be!)



View Postjustcallme A S H, on 02 August 2018 - 10:05 PM, said:


Battlevalue - impossible to work out due to mech customising. You change the build, you change the viabilty and there are way, way to many factors involve to accurately calculate that. Not to mention any weapon balance or mech quirks, changes it. Another layer of complexity won't get implemented and nor should it.



Slow down and re-read that post before opening fire on it ASH. Peiper's suggestion is based on chasis only, not build/equipment/loadout. Like the Solaris7 divisions PGI has setup.

#135 Hal Greaves

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 08:13 AM

I'd really like the older lobby back, this way we can see who's in the queue ready to go or if there are 12 mans waiting for a fight.

#136 Racerxintegra2k

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 08:36 AM

View Postjustcallme A S H, on 01 August 2018 - 08:48 PM, said:

My Top Ideas / Quick Wins.

Most of which we've all seen before...
  • Loyalist / Merc Tree - Max Rank 20 Loyalist / Rank 10 for Merc. Many users achieved this 2 years ago, there is no motivation. From a LORE/Roleplay perspective some people do not WANT to pledge allegiance to another Clan, in fact most people in FP loyalist camp won't. Tree reset needs to occur once you max it out, it is an absolute neccesity at this point.
  • 1-Bucket Merger / Purpose of the map - There is now no 'purpose' to Faction Play. It is just IS against Clan and the Tug-o-War bar essentially means nothing. There is rarely one side that 'wins' the fight anymore as a result, which ties into the below point.
  • Mercs Insta Contract Switch vs Loyalist- While this idea in theory was good, in practice it is poor. It just allows teams to switch side to avoid fights while still punishing loyalists excessively. This means the queue volumes jump around too much and #2 - occurs even less because of constant switching. IMO this change should be reversed for Mercs.
  • Tug-O-War bar is BROKEN - You can win all games, get the bar to 97% full and in the last 30mins the opposing side can get 2 wins and claw the back back to under 95% and stop a planet capture. Matt Neuman knows this is an issue, thus PGI does, even a TUK win result was altered (from Clan to IS) because of this poor calculation. It needs to be resolved.
  • Loylist Probation Games - Make it 5 and not 10. Least you can do it in an hour via scouting rather than 2-3hrs. No reason to have it 10 games.
  • IS v IS / Clan v Clan - This really has not eventuated at all. Needs to happen, keeps things interesting.
  • Incursion - Is often just a pointless base rush. Increase base points hitpoints by 30% so it cannot be taken out as a means of instant victory but still leaves it open to those who just want to throw 48 mechs at an objective without actually shooting the enemy mechs (which often makes games boring/frustrating).
  • New Player Experience - We all know it isn't great. PGI has a big warning screen for new players but they don't listen. New Players should be gated from Faction Play as a result. Understand this is controversial but it is not the new place for anyone fresh to the game. Lets gate FP by making new accounts spend 50-100 games in QP first to 'qualify'. While it won't stop all the issues, it will alleviate some (basic gameplay, map awareness etc).
  • Regular Events - We were promised regular stuff as part of FP4.1. It just isn't happening, that was December 2016.
Some larger stuff
  • SEIGE Maps - Some maps are inherrantly bad like Boreal Vault and Sulferous Rift. Boreal needs some of the middle hills inside the gate reworked and so does Vitric. Make it a little less choke-point to defend, expand the trenches a little etc. Can expand on this in greater detail if required, otherwise post will get too long. I know PGI have previously acknowledged Boreal Vault as an issue, be good to see that fixed.
  • In-game UI - Tweaks so Units can recruit players. Currently they only real way is in the depths of sub-forums here or the somewhat troublesome in-game chat. Make a 'Marketplace' of sorts where a Unit Leader can advertise. Have some basic searchable items/tags like 'Competitive / Casual' 'Loyalist / Merc' etc.
  • Drop Zone walls - To alleviate some spawn camping sitiatuons need to move the Spawns a bit closer to gether on some maps and also have the walls face 45deg INWARD toward the drop zone centre. This will stop spawn camping a little by letting dropships shoot OVER the walls. Currently you can hit behind walls, wait for dropship to leave, go kill mechs. Adjusting the wall angle instantly resolves this big complaint. Will it stop it entirely? No, but it will help.


Nailed it ! Thank you for putting that in a clear concise fashion, hopefully PGI puts this into play ASAP.

#137 Scarall

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 08:40 AM

"Repair & Rearm" for FactionPlay

#138 Paul Inouye

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:37 AM

Thanks for the posts so far guys.

Taking notes for the podcast and points to clarify. There are quite a few things we can add from what has been mentioned. There's quite a few we can add for September's patch as well (a lot of those are QoL). Then there's a few that are far outside of possible scope and I'll try to clarify those in the podcast.

There are some technical blockers in play as well. Order of operations in relation to what state you are in while flowing from clicking Launch to being in the air to be dropped off. When does the backend service pass you from one state to another and finally to a dedicated server? It's in this area where things like selecting your 'Mech after a map has been selected becomes a problem. This feature request has been out there for not just FP but all modes. Problem is, changing this flow of operations is a major undertaking and I honestly can't tell you if it's even possible with our current system.

About my statement about PvE... we do not have an AI system in MWO. That system would have to be built from scratch in order to have any resemblance of an AI opponent fighting you. Hence, something like this IS off the table for this discussion.

Again, thanks for the posts and keep 'em coming.

#139 Paul Inouye

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:43 AM

View PostXaat Xuun, on 02 August 2018 - 11:46 PM, said:

one thinng I forgot to add to my first post Call to Arms should pop in the first 2 minutes, not the last 2


Keep in mind that Call to Arms is what draws the PUG players into the queue. The back loaded delay is to allow people active in FP to be queued first and then the CtA fills.

#140 Eisenhorne

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Posted 03 August 2018 - 09:45 AM

View PostPaul Inouye, on 03 August 2018 - 09:37 AM, said:

About my statement about PvE... we do not have an AI system in MWO.


That explains the pathing for the Escort Atlas then!





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