1169 replies to this topic

[The Basilisk]

Karl Streiger, on 05 July 2021 - 03:38 AM, said:

You can shoot Mechs, do you need anything else

Oh come on Karl...I do know you too well to not knowing that you also want to topple buildings stomp footsoldiers and turn tanks to their roofs tickling their tracks with a flamer....and that on a well formulated mission and backstory base .

Edited by The Basilisk, 05 July 2021 - 05:57 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Well, the very first Tukayyid Event said everything you need to know about this. As far as I remembered it started on April the 24th. A Friday.
Seriously was it so hard to just wait a single week? Because the May the 1st was a Friday as well.

About everything else, I had my moments in MWO. Those have to last for this life.

[IronWolfPack64]

Just bring scouting back, that's what we need to get more new units back into this mode.

[Kanukki]

IronWolfPack64, on 28 July 2021 - 01:34 PM, said:

Just bring scouting back, that's what we need to get more new units back into this mode.

Scouting would be a great option to bring back, and make a lot of my deck and mech commitments relevant again.

[ManicWK9]

need the LFG menu in queue, because i dont see invites from other players when im in queue..

[IronWolfPack64]

Kanukki, on 01 August 2021 - 06:41 AM, said:

Scouting would be a great option to bring back, and make a lot of my deck and mech commitments relevant again.

Exactly! So many medium mechs that are garbage for invasion and qp have desirable and even meta qualities in scouting.

[Duke Falcon]

FP have a serious recurring trouble - as I read in many topics - what is DZ-camping (not really care myself, since if one side fare that well the other sucked hard enough to deserve it's fate). Seriously, why DZ in FP at all? In QP that single drop with Leopards is OK and plausible... In FP? Seriously, constant dropping with Leopards? Three Union or a single Overlord installed as a building in the DZ! Why? No silly droppings per death (how the heck you got back to a dropship from the field, hmmm, Scotty? Beamin' up?) just walk out from the big egg covered with turrets and ride into fire and death again. Easy to add such objects permanently to Siege maps and resource-wise better because still-objects need less operational stuffs (memory, bandwith, chocolate latte) than moving ones. And how much cooler a towering dropship in an LZ than a few flying bricks?

[vonJerg]

if you put OP defenses in DZ many will not leave the safety of it, making games even more boring

[-P U R E-]

Duke Falcon, on 11 August 2021 - 10:04 PM, said:

FP have a serious recurring trouble - as I read in many topics - what is DZ-camping (not really care myself, since if one side fare that well the other sucked hard enough to deserve it's fate). Seriously, why DZ in FP at all? In QP that single drop with Leopards is OK and plausible... In FP? Seriously, constant dropping with Leopards? Three Union or a single Overlord installed as a building in the DZ! Why? No silly droppings per death (how the heck you got back to a dropship from the field, hmmm, Scotty? Beamin' up?) just walk out from the big egg covered with turrets and ride into fire and death again. Easy to add such objects permanently to Siege maps and resource-wise better because still-objects need less operational stuffs (memory, bandwith, chocolate latte) than moving ones. And how much cooler a towering dropship in an LZ than a few flying bricks?

PRIMO liked your post!

[Randolfr]

I don't feel justified at my hatred for faction play without adding some input on how to improve it.

Firstly It's out of reach to new players and the attitude of experienced players is ... well vulgar.

As such Faction play rewards are really out of reach to new players. Why even try when vets treat new players so poorly, maybe add something like the first mission stuff like that from quick play, to encourage new players. At least something that mitigates the insults and hostile attacks they will encounter.

Next It's frustrating that Enemy teams camp around drop zones, that needs to stop, maybe make the drop area out of bounds to the other team. This is so players new and old get at least a chance to provide some challenge and thus can grow skills.

The maps are fine,

The game play is okay but leans heavily in favor of I.S. Maybe look at the balance between I.S. and Clan there. (Consider equalize the drop weight).

So this will address the:
The treatment and encouragement of new players.
Growth of new skills to provide all players a stronger learning environment.
Balance issues within the clan vs. I.S. format.

I agree scouting should be a thing - maybe team vs. bots to add a testing ground for the mw5 AI or other PGI games.

[Natural Predator]

Randolfr, on 14 April 2022 - 04:37 PM, said:

I don't feel justified at my hatred for faction play without adding some input on how to improve it.

Firstly It's out of reach to new players and the attitude of experienced players is ... well vulgar.

As such Faction play rewards are really out of reach to new players. Why even try when vets treat new players so poorly, maybe add something like the first mission stuff like that from quick play, to encourage new players. At least something that mitigates the insults and hostile attacks they will encounter.

Next It's frustrating that Enemy teams camp around drop zones, that needs to stop, maybe make the drop area out of bounds to the other team. This is so players new and old get at least a chance to provide some challenge and thus can grow skills.

The maps are fine,

The game play is okay but leans heavily in favor of I.S. Maybe look at the balance between I.S. and Clan there. (Consider equalize the drop weight).

So this will address the:
The treatment and encouragement of new players.
Growth of new skills to provide all players a stronger learning environment.
Balance issues within the clan vs. I.S. format.

I agree scouting should be a thing - maybe team vs. bots to add a testing ground for the mw5 AI or other PGI games.

for the 1 Millionth time there really is no issue between clan vs IS there is just a skill gap issue between good and average players. Clan Mechs have some of the best metas in the game which is why you see them often taken in competitive play. Faction play has more rolls than quick play because faction play is SUPPOSED to be a team orientated version of quickplay which is why pugs get rolled going against groups.

There is no skill balancing, there is no organized vs unorganized balancing. FP is a meat grinder and if you go in unprepared for it you will get out skilled and out played. It is the wild west of MWO.

Edited by NPC SLAYER, 15 April 2022 - 05:28 AM.

[IronWolfPack64]

Randolfr, on 14 April 2022 - 04:37 PM, said:

I don't feel justified at my hatred for faction play without adding some input on how to improve it.

Firstly It's out of reach to new players and the attitude of experienced players is ... well vulgar.

As such Faction play rewards are really out of reach to new players. Why even try when vets treat new players so poorly, maybe add something like the first mission stuff like that from quick play, to encourage new players. At least something that mitigates the insults and hostile attacks they will encounter.

Next It's frustrating that Enemy teams camp around drop zones, that needs to stop, maybe make the drop area out of bounds to the other team. This is so players new and old get at least a chance to provide some challenge and thus can grow skills.

The maps are fine,

The game play is okay but leans heavily in favor of I.S. Maybe look at the balance between I.S. and Clan there. (Consider equalize the drop weight).

So this will address the:
The treatment and encouragement of new players.
Growth of new skills to provide all players a stronger learning environment.
Balance issues within the clan vs. I.S. format.

I agree scouting should be a thing - maybe team vs. bots to add a testing ground for the mw5 AI or other PGI games.

I agree with your input on the state of faction play relating to inexperienced vs experienced players. (Clan is better than IS and the tonnage gap should stay but that’s beside the point). My Unit Hunters of the Fjord Lands FJRD is trying to undermine that stereotype. We love new players and many of us are very very experienced and skilled at the game. We actually purposely go out of our way to try and seek out new players who are trying to get into faction play, especially tier 4 and 5 pilots. If you are interested in giving faction play another shot then perhaps you should drop with us. We are doing faction play tonight. Hop in our discord and we would love to play with you and any friends you bring along. https://discord.gg/3Ptz4CWy

[VengeanceKnight]

I have some thoughts, being a former member of Arc7, who was one of the top ranked Ghostbear clans at one point. I am no founder, but I have played this game for a rather long time. I agree that faction play as of late seems very one sided, I myself have actually stated several times, "I no longer enjoy faction dropping." on faction chat. I do that so that people know , I once played faction play a lot. In fairness, lets take a look at what I experience as a clanner who enjoyed faction play and now, not so much. To start, lets go with mechs. In the last 21 mech packs that have been released , that is combined mech (packs that included I.S. mechs and Clan Mechs.) packs and all, 11 packs offer Clan options, but of those 11 packs, only 5 were actually brand new mechs, while IS had 8 brand new mechs in those same 21 mech packs, as well as a 13 of those packs having inner sphere options in general. Not very encouraging for Clan members right off the bat so to speak.

I don't have a ridiculous amount of mechs , but I do boast 205 mechs at the time of typing this out. I would say about 1/3rd of those are inner sphere mechs now (Approximately). So of those 205 mechs 53 of my mechs are assaults. I can look at most of my clan lineup , from Kodiaks, Direwolves, Marauders, You name it , minus the gargoyle I have almost 1 of every mech type for frame in clan. (I had gargoyles, for my play style, they are too situational, just not a fan from my perspective.) I love all my mechs. But right off the bat again , I see that I can setup some of the more Iconic mechs with a lot more armor in the front , and keep a minimal amount in the back to deal a maximum effort in a frontal attack. The Direwolf is the first example I can think of with one of my variances having 140 armor points in the front and the back only having 11 , again , to maximize the frontal push as best I can. Knowing this, that one variant of direwolf is the only one I have boasting so much armor in the front , with most of the assaults falling more in the 120 ish range and below. A few others averaging in the 130 ish points of armor in the front center torso.

Meanwhile on my IS mechs that are assaults , My anhilator boasts a 143 in the same fashion. I have an atlas that boasts a 159 armor in the center and 2 others in the 150 category. 2 corsairs that boast over 140 armor in the center. 2 Fafnirs, 1 at 153 the other at 162 armor in the center torso. I won't even go on. My point is I just rambled off 8 I.S. mechs that all have over 140 armor , while only one clan mech that can do this , and it is not just the one clan mech line , it is one specific variant that can do it while still having some armor in the rear , that is with skills as well mind you.

Now , I am not sitting here whining about how "unfair the balance is." I am trying to illuminate a part of the situation.

Weapons combos for Clan are far fewer to work , and make stable for a brawl mech, while I have several IS mechs that can open up with many weapons combo's far easier and have those mechs be able to brawl from a larger array of possible ranges since the addition of MRM's. You could argue that clan's have ATM's and this is true, but the more focused point straight lined shooting of MRM's versus the ATM's with even a slight arc, preferred arc and target lock of an ATM. You have to take into consideration the tonnage of ammo you have to carry for ATM's to fire as often as an MRM.

The last point I will hit on, being a solid clan enthusiast, even though I have a nice selection of IS mechs, Scout play brought a lot of flavor to the table for clan faction play. The loss of this was devastating really to the multitude of clan players I have played with. I feel the return of Scout play would definitely increase the likelihood of a more diverse clan participation.

I hope this has give you all some serious thought for why there are so few Clan players, playing in faction play anymore. I also hope that it gave some idea's for how to fix it. I still greatly enjoy this game , and all games experience a rollercoaster effect , there are going to be high's and low's. This current faction play low I hope can be fixed. Thank you for your time if you read this whole thing.

[Dresari Iain]

Simple suggestions:

1. A full binary (two stars of 5 mechs = 10 mechs) vs a company (3 lances = 12 mechs).
2. Equal drop deck tonnage of 260 for both sides.
3. Remove negative chassis included quirks on Clan mechs such as the Timber Wolf (laser duration, cooldown penaltues).
4. DHS sink twice the heat that standard heat sinks do, for both sides.

Will be more respectful of lore where Clan mechs are absolutely devastating, but the Clan's comaparatively smaller toumans face larger inner sphere armies.

Basically rebalance CW so that IS forces stand a chance outside of 12 man IS vs pug Clan (which happens extremely rarely and is often the other way around).

Allow the winning side's top dmg dealer a 1% chance to salvage one of the opponent's mech and a few weapons/equipment/ammo (CW use only). This way, IS forces, after a winning streak, can eventually start fielding some limited clan tech. (use max 1 Clan mech per drop deck). Keep the original salvaged mech in the clanner's inventory (nothing changes for him/her).

[ccrider]

Guys, balance is fine tech wise. Tonnage could be equalized and it wouldn't break the mode. But dropping alone, Mic off and doing your own thing is what causes stomps. Even PUG groups can do fine if they bring decent mechs and communicate. There is no balance problem besides that of an organized team versus a group of Pugs all doing their own thing. If you see a group or a player in your drops who seems to have a plan, talk to them and work with them and you'll have better matches no matter what tech base you play.

[Dresari Iain]

Soo, IS tech:

XL = deathwish
STD = tonnage wasted, unless you want heavy gausses. Then it's still tonnage wasted
LIght engines = better, still quite inferior to Clan XL for obvious tonnage reasons

Energy weapons: generally heavier, weaker, range issues (both min for PPCs and max for everyhting, even ERLLs). Heavy PPCs way too heavy and only 15 dmg. I prefer the CERPPC. Can't use that obviously.

Ballistics: over-heavy ACs, gausses. Only the heavy gauss deserves its tonnage. But for some reason the range is ridiculously weak (look at lore I mean). MGs twice heavier.

Missiles: twice heavier. Nuff said. Oh wait, crappy firing pattern on lurms. WIsh we had that Artemis like concentrated stream.

DHS: 3 more slots instead of 2. Nope, they don't sink twice the heat, sadly.

Endo, FF: say bye bye to your free slots IS pilot. Clanners pay a much lower price.

So to compensate for your components weighting 50% more, we offer you a generous 2% tonnage bonus on your drop deck! Yay? Nope.

FInally, you still will fight 12 clanners of (quasi) same tonnage with only 3 lances.

If that were the case in lore, the IlClan era would have started in 3055...ish?

And Tukayyud would have been another bloody disatser for the IS and ComGuards and their comparatively weak 300 year old glorified LosTech.

Is wins by numbers. If they don't have that, and say equal pilots and teams, my money's on the clanners. Every time.

When I played CW as a clanner, god we stomped anything, everytime. And I used only trial mechs. True fact.

Soo, saying CW is balanced as it is, when the challenge the IS faces is brutally unfair, seems like a denial of obvious facts to me.
If it were balanced, wouldn't people still play it? Outside of weekends I mean? Like quickplay stuff you know?

[ccrider]

Dresari Iain, on 06 May 2022 - 03:46 PM, said:

Soo, IS tech:

XL = deathwish
STD = tonnage wasted, unless you want heavy gausses. Then it's still tonnage wasted
LIght engines = better, still quite inferior to Clan XL for obvious tonnage reasons

Energy weapons: generally heavier, weaker, range issues (both min for PPCs and max for everyhting, even ERLLs). Heavy PPCs way too heavy and only 15 dmg. I prefer the CERPPC. Can't use that obviously.

Ballistics: over-heavy ACs, gausses. Only the heavy gauss deserves its tonnage. But for some reason the range is ridiculously weak (look at lore I mean). MGs twice heavier.

Missiles: twice heavier. Nuff said. Oh wait, crappy firing pattern on lurms. WIsh we had that Artemis like concentrated stream.

DHS: 3 more slots instead of 2. Nope, they don't sink twice the heat, sadly.

Endo, FF: say bye bye to your free slots IS pilot. Clanners pay a much lower price.

So to compensate for your components weighting 50% more, we offer you a generous 2% tonnage bonus on your drop deck! Yay? Nope.

FInally, you still will fight 12 clanners of (quasi) same tonnage with only 3 lances.

If that were the case in lore, the IlClan era would have started in 3055...ish?

And Tukayyud would have been another bloody disatser for the IS and ComGuards and their comparatively weak 300 year old glorified LosTech.

Is wins by numbers. If they don't have that, and say equal pilots and teams, my money's on the clanners. Every time.

When I played CW as a clanner, god we stomped anything, everytime. And I used only trial mechs. True fact.

Soo, saying CW is balanced as it is, when the challenge the IS faces is brutally unfair, seems like a denial of obvious facts to me.
If it were balanced, wouldn't people still play it? Outside of weekends I mean? Like quickplay stuff you know?

I mean, if the game were balanced on lire, you'd be right. But ignoring quirks and the fact that IS has shorter duration, heat and can fire 4 large lasers at the same time is kinda cherry picking the good of clans and ignoring the strong points of IS mechs.

[Dresari Iain]

ccrider, on 06 May 2022 - 03:54 PM, said:

I mean, if the game were balanced on lire, you'd be right. But ignoring quirks and the fact that IS has shorter duration, heat and can fire 4 large lasers at the same time is kinda cherry picking the good of clans and ignoring the strong points of IS mechs.

You make some good points too I see
Are you serious about the no ghost heat for 4 LL fired at the same time?
Last I recall 3 LL or LPL was the max.
If you're right about this I'm definitely taking my 4 LL meme Atlas on Quickplay!

[Dresari Iain]

What I'm trying to say is that IMHO CW should be balanced on lore (and therefore have no quirks unlike QP).
So that I'm seriously scared when I'm fighting a Timbie in any mech.
And know I'll lose a 1 vs 1 duel against a Dire, even in an Atlas.
Instead IS mechs get unrealistic quirks, and beautiful clan tech gets nerfed.
And it will take a lot more quirks (not the right way to go about it) to make IS CW great again. Not that it ever was great mind you. At least in my opinion, which is why I believe many don't play it any longer. Getting rekt 90% of the time and losing while doing your best is frustrating, aka not worth sinking my time and effort.
Solaris had even worst balancing issues. Look how dead it is.
Good thing QP is actual fun
And you can also play in comp groups there, no need for this IS vs Clan nonsense. Nothing's more balanced than mixed teams, and it shows.
I also miss the days we could do a FedSuns vs Dracs fight, or when I attacked (and failed) CJF as a CW pug noobie.
A refusal war would be fun. A FedCom civil war too.

[Katrina Steiner]

Dresari Iain, on 08 May 2022 - 12:32 AM, said:

You make some good points too I see
Are you serious about the no ghost heat for 4 LL fired at the same time?
Last I recall 3 LL or LPL was the max.
If you're right about this I'm definitely taking my 4 LL meme Atlas on Quickplay!

CC is correct. I believe it was April when the IS 4 LL no ghost heat was introduced.