81 replies to this topic

[Apollo777]

SilentScreamer, on 19 August 2018 - 07:21 AM, said:

I got 4 matches in between 1pm and 3pm PST yesterday. Had a 3 to 5 minute waut time inbetween.

You can always Test in tuorial or Academy mode....the PTS reward is only c-bills right?

I thought you have to play matches so that PGI can use the info!
Btw I did play 10 matches, it's about time of day.

Edited by Apollo777, 19 August 2018 - 10:19 AM.

[SilentScreamer]

Apollo777, on 19 August 2018 - 08:38 AM, said:

I thought you have to play matches so that PGI can use the info!
Btw I did play 10 matches, it's about time of day.

You do have to play 10 matches with minimum score 50 for reward. The point was, why stress over c-bills. Test what you need in Academy and ignore the reward.

[Anastasius Foht]

Quote

The prizes are still to be determined, however will be posted here once announced!

looks like event ends and noone bothered to provide info, LUL

[MechaBattler]

I'm really enjoying the changes. But I feel like lights and low end mediums need a buff to their dissipation. Perhaps just increasing their 'heat dissipation' quirk for having less than 10 dubs would do the trick.

[Marius Evander]

Do we get rewards for only getting 3 games on PTS in 3 hours ? (Cadoazazel account)

Numbers picked up for a bit after ^ above. Finally got 10 games done, gave me time to do other stuff while the wheel span.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 19 August 2018 - 07:56 PM.

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

I feel like this move breaks too many builds.

First off, many of the mechs that are energy build dependent are pretty much screwed. Especially the ones which boat energy hardpoints. Most lasers and PPCs, save for pulse lasers and IS meds were so hot with any firepower behind them as to be virtually unusable. Second, other builds like a Warhammer with nothing but dual RAC5s, or a Marauder boating 3 RAC2s (no energy weapons), and other high caliber UAC builds run with such high heat that it was problematic. Third, it made heat neutral builds feel overpowered basically. Like 5x AC2 on a Jagermech. Lights with small pulses and/or MGs. A SNV-A with 4x mpl and 4x srm6. Anything with gauss or LB10Xs just smashed enemies as they helplessly overheated.

Needs work, too extreme a move imho.

Edited by ShooteyMcShooterson, 19 August 2018 - 04:18 PM.

[ThomasAH]

I had some fun in the testing grounds, but every time I tried to get a match, my guess from the displayed percentages is that only 3-5 other people were in the queue. Even with waiting I did not get a single match.

[ZortPointNarf]

I completely missed this one, sneaking it in just prior to the start is kinda daft.
Would have gladly played, but alas, information warfare seems to be beating up PGI.
Based on the changes I like the idea of them, as I've said before, the problem was never the weapons, but firing all the weapons at once, I think this goes a long way to dealing with it.
Hope you guys will restart the PTS and let it run till patch day.

[NocturnalBeast]

MechaBattler, on 19 August 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

I'm really enjoying the changes. But I feel like lights and low end mediums need a buff to their dissipation. Perhaps just increasing their 'heat dissipation' quirk for having less than 10 dubs would do the trick.

No mech should have buffs or nerfs based on their weight Class. Lights and Mediums are not supposed to go toe to toe with Heavies or Assaults for very long. Mediums are supposed to be light hunters or fire support and lights are supposed to be scouts, spotters, anti-infantry (yes, I know that there is no infantry in MWO) and hit and run skirmishers. The reason this game keeps losing players is because of all the buffs and nerfs that are done to satisfy people who want to turn this game into something other than a MechWarrior game (based on BattleTech). The more people whine to make this "generic stompy robots", the more people will leave and play other (less expensive) generic shooters.

[SilentFenris]

MechaBattler, on 19 August 2018 - 12:04 PM, said:

I'm really enjoying the changes. But I feel like lights and low end mediums need a buff to their dissipation. Perhaps just increasing their 'heat dissipation' quirk for having less than 10 dubs would do the trick.

A few patches ago PGI gave heat dissapation boosts via quirks to mechs with engine caps under 250 (ie locust, kifox, etc). If certain mechs are limited in cooling I am sure they can be boosted by either the Energy Heat Generation or Heat Dissapation quirks.

ZortPointNarf, on 19 August 2018 - 11:34 PM, said:

I completely missed this one, sneaking it in just prior to the start is kinda daft.
Would have gladly played, but alas, information warfare seems to be beating up PGI.
Based on the changes I like the idea of them, as I've said before, the problem was never the weapons, but firing all the weapons at once, I think this goes a long way to dealing with it.
Hope you guys will restart the PTS and let it run till patch day.

Disagree with your statement the problem is "firng weapons all at once" would lead us back to the Energy Draw PTS, or something else like forced chain fire. I really dislike both those solutions, although they would likely fix the actual PTS problem....

The problem the PTS is trying to address is mechs taking a high damage energy or mixed-energy loadout, as energy weapons, particular medium lasers give very good damage for little tonnage required. The high heat cap on live servers allows those builds to fire multiple Alphas, waiting only for weapon cooldown.

While the MCII-Deathstrike has been made out to be the villian by PGI, there have been other culprits in the past. The original Arctic Cheetah release allowed players to boat 6 ERML. While a 42 point Alpha may not seem great, at the time of release the ACH also had Quirks for increased agility and energy weapon quirks. Those Alphas went into rear torsos...have you seen the All Systems Nominal ep with the ACH sporting little red laser pointers? It was absurdly overpowered and lost several of those Quirks in a month or two.

So even though the problem is now at the front of PGIs list because of an Assault class mech, every weight class has the potential as long as it has enough energy hardpoints.

Edited by SilentFenris, 20 August 2018 - 08:26 AM.

[MechaBattler]

@ Ed Steele. The dissipation changes work great for mechs with enough tonnage to pop in dubs. But lights and low end mediums don't always have that luxury. Especially when their engine caps out under 250 rating. It's not farfetched to say they could use some help when the changes mostly favor mechs that can bring additional heatsinks.

Or they could just buff internal heatsinks for all engines. But then once again lights and mediums with low engine caps are gimped because they can't equip a 250 for the 10 built in dubs. That's why they already have a 'heat dissipation' quirk. I'm just saying to buff it a little more so they're not gimped.

[FrontlineAssembly]

So here is the good and the bad of this PTS.
The good: the mobility pass works pretty well. Definitely helped some struggling assaults, and heavies.
Also heat dissipation works well.
The Bad: the heat cap is set far to low! It over penalizes many energy dependent builds. Also sustained uac fire becomes very much an issue fast! If the heat cap is the way the game goes. Then ghost heat needs to go badly!! That compounds the nerfs to many mechs. Especially heavies and assaults.
Can we just finally admit that this whole idea behind these PTS sessions is bad? All 3 PTS sessions have shown that the ideas aren't working. And that by and large players don't want any of it.
It would be nice to keep the mobility pass though...hint hint.
Oh and where the hell are the August patch notes???? Did PGI forget about them this month?

[nazgul090]

Remove the cool shot from the game.

By doing so u would reduce the inial burst of, for example, ebon jaguar 2LPL+5 ERMED:

alpha, hide, alpha. hide, upgraded coolshot, override, alpha, hide, alpha, hide a long time and cool off

would be:
alpha, hide, alpha, hide, override, alpha, hide a long time and cool off

Ends up being 1 or 2 less alpha before overheating, the laser vomit is now helpless to pressure coming from pushing ballistic, sustainable dps and even brawl.

Solaris7 lack of consumable. Given the format being 1v1 or 2v2 and the lack of coolshot, brawlers and sustainable dps build find themself favored. Because a brawler can recklessly charge at the one long range ennemy and get a kill. The same should be applied to quickplay.

The result would probably be that playing a brawler or [color=#222222]sustainable dps build would be rewarding when u succesfully apply pressure and close the distance on alpha strike builds. [/color]

[color=#222222]But still, u couldnt be reckless and charge in a straight line to the ennemy team because getting focus fire by 5 alpha ends up in some one death.[/color]
[color=#222222]But now succesfully flanking a hot laser vomit would reward a brawler by a kill. [/color]
[color=#222222]Cause right now if u engage a 75% hot alpha strike ennemy, he override, triggers an upgraded coolshot and fire twice more. Wich make u wonder why u even tried to get at him at the first place.[/color]

To resume,
remove coolshot to balance alpha strike vs brawling and sustainable dps.
remove coolshot to decrease the initial burst of early game, thus increasing survavibility.

my 2 cent

nazgul090

[ThomasAH]

Yay, now I'm happy that I did not get 10 matches, so I don't have to contact support to remove the Demon Girl Cockpit Item from my account.

[Marius Evander]

Wish I hadn't bothered. Wont be bothering with the next PTS, should have made the reward awesome to reward us for blind faith trusting in a good reward, not a average / mediocre one.

Edited by Cadoazreal, 20 August 2018 - 03:11 PM.

[D V Devnull]

ThomasAH, on 20 August 2018 - 12:38 PM, said:

Yay, now I'm happy that I did not get 10 matches, so I don't have to contact support to remove the Demon Girl Cockpit Item from my account.

Cadoazreal, on 20 August 2018 - 03:11 PM, said:

Wish I hadn't bothered. Wont be bothering with the next PTS, should have made the reward awesome to reward us for blind faith trusting in a good reward, not a average / mediocre one.

Pardon my strangely disagreeing with the two of you, but I actually like getting a 2nd "Demon Girl - Standing Cockpit Item" in my inventory. I'm NOT some 'perverse dummy' by any means. I just think they'll go extremely nicely in the HellBringer or one of a few other Mechs, for a random but worthwhile example. That particular Standing Cockpit Item indeed DOES happen to have a place for use.

~Mr. D. V. "Unfortunately certain that someone WILL be 'creeped out' by this post..." Devnull

[NocturnalBeast]

MechaBattler, on 20 August 2018 - 09:42 AM, said:

@ Ed Steele. The dissipation changes work great for mechs with enough tonnage to pop in dubs. But lights and low end mediums don't always have that luxury. Especially when their engine caps out under 250 rating. It's not farfetched to say they could use some help when the changes mostly favor mechs that can bring additional heatsinks.

Or they could just buff internal heatsinks for all engines. But then once again lights and mediums with low engine caps are gimped because they can't equip a 250 for the 10 built in dubs. That's why they already have a 'heat dissipation' quirk. I'm just saying to buff it a little more so they're not gimped.

The trade-off for being small, fast and maneuverable is that you don't have room for all the heatsinks and weapons that you want. There is not reason to buff Mechs that are working as intended. I know people will always want the best of everything in one chassis, but if that is the case, they should play Call of Duty of something where all the players are basically the same size and speed and have access to any weapon.

Edited by Ed Steele, 21 August 2018 - 03:23 PM.

[Yulri]

Due to the lack of participation, the wait times for games in the PTS were ridiculously long; I was only able to get in 4 games. I strongly recommend not holding a major event at the same time the PTS is open. I would also recommend rewarding PTS participants with something like 7 days of premium time or a free battlemech (or both?). While 2 mil c-bills and a cockpit item are nice, it may not draw in many participants. If I can earn 2.5 mil c-bills in 2-3 Faction Play games, why would I waste my time playing 10 games for the same amount?

Perhaps the free mech could be a special variant that is only obtainable by participating in the PTS.

There was one clan build that didn't do terrible, though I was unable to play aggressively. The Linebacker-A with 8x Heavy medium lasers. I usually separate my weapons into multiple groups to avoid ghost heat anyway, however, had I not done so the build would not have been plausible. I usually run 2 weapon groups for this build but was forced to use 4 weapon groups to accommodate my aggressive play style. While the changes definitely limit clan laser builds, I fear the heat cap is just too low.

I will say that the changes to heat management do limit the potential number of troll builds. I tried a few just to see what shenanigans would be possible and I found that the 8x C-ER-PPC DireWolf build will explode after one alpha. The build is not even close to being sustainable which is good because builds like that are what break the game (and the reason for heat management changes). Even a 4x C-ER-PPC Marauder-IIC would pop with one alpha.

While I like the changes in mobility and heat dissipation, the heat threshold should probably be 10 to 15% (or perhaps 15 to 20%) higher. The low threshold severely punishes all laser builds (not just clan) as well as UAC builds.

If the heat threshold stays at 40, it might be good to lower ghost heat by maybe 10 to 15% or remove it all together.

[C337Skymaster]

I missed the opportunity to actually participate in the PTS for this, but I absolutely love what I'm reading, and I wanted to vocalize that, so that PGI doesn't get the mistaken impression that the community doesn't care or doesn't like these changes. This is exactly the direction this should be going, and I would love to see THIS PTS in the live server. Mobility increase, heat cap reduction, and heat dissipation increase.

The game hasn't been fun since engine desync. We just play out of habit, or lack of anything better that will run on our computers (which is why there was such an exodus to Battletech when it released). This will be a step up, and go a long way towards making MWO fun again.

[C337Skymaster]

nazgul090, on 20 August 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

Remove the cool shot from the game.

By doing so u would reduce the inial burst of, for example, ebon jaguar 2LPL+5 ERMED:

alpha, hide, alpha. hide, upgraded coolshot, override, alpha, hide, alpha, hide a long time and cool off

would be:
alpha, hide, alpha, hide, override, alpha, hide a long time and cool off

Ends up being 1 or 2 less alpha before overheating, the laser vomit is now helpless to pressure coming from pushing ballistic, sustainable dps and even brawl.

Solaris7 lack of consumable. Given the format being 1v1 or 2v2 and the lack of coolshot, brawlers and sustainable dps build find themself favored. Because a brawler can recklessly charge at the one long range ennemy and get a kill. The same should be applied to quickplay.

The result would probably be that playing a brawler or [color=#222222]sustainable dps build would be rewarding when u succesfully apply pressure and close the distance on alpha strike builds. [/color]

[color=#222222]But still, u couldnt be reckless and charge in a straight line to the ennemy team because getting focus fire by 5 alpha ends up in some one death.[/color]
[color=#222222]But now succesfully flanking a hot laser vomit would reward a brawler by a kill. [/color]
[color=#222222]Cause right now if u engage a 75% hot alpha strike ennemy, he override, triggers an upgraded coolshot and fire twice more. Wich make u wonder why u even tried to get at him at the first place.[/color]

To resume,
remove coolshot to balance alpha strike vs brawling and sustainable dps.
remove coolshot to decrease the initial burst of early game, thus increasing survavibility.

my 2 cent

nazgul090

Actually, something that's been called for which fits with the lore: the "Coolshot" is a piece of equipment that exists in the lore of Battletech. It's called a "coolant pod", and it occupies critical slots and tonnage in the 'mech. If, instead of these consumable items which take no weight and no space, we make them an actual lore-based item which DOES use weight and space on the 'mech, then pilots will still have the option of using them, if they wish, but will have to balance them against other weapons and equipment that they might wish to take, such as an extra heat sink or two, or an extra laser, etc.