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Mwo Will Be Completely Dead By 2019 If You Dont Fix It Now


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#61 Appogee

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Posted 19 August 2018 - 09:02 PM

The main problem with MWO is and always has been the lack of an engrossing end game.

FP was supposed to be it. But PGI lied about the status of its development for 18 months, while using the promise of how good it would be to milk Mech Pack sales. In fact, PGI didn't even start coding FP until they had gained a licence renewal from MS. Clearly their Plan B was to walk away having never delivered FP, if MS hadn't renewed it.

Then, with the mode now 18 months overdue, they rushed it half-assed missing most of the logistical and career depth they'd promised.

Now, having milked us as much as they can with MWO, they are focusing on the next big cash grab of MW5. They could barely even bother to write the last three-monthly roadmap for MWO, and what they scraped together was sparse and even some of that hasn't been delivered.

All PGI are presently offering to do for MWO is some minor changes to values in spreadsheets. But what it really needs - what it has always needed - is the kind of depth that could only be achieved by actual coding and adding to the core FP gameplay.

In summary: PGI's ongoing lack of commitment to investing in the longevity of their own product, is what is 'killing' MWO. The best we can hope for is that they will sell it to a developer who has some ambition.

Edited by Appogee, 20 August 2018 - 08:11 AM.


#62 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:14 AM

What could have created the MWLL team with all the money and the then existing PGI people (some of which were already leave to relic and others or build own Companys 2014)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 20 August 2018 - 02:15 AM.


#63 Vellron2005

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:23 AM

Posted Image

Lemme tell you why this game is failing and people are leaving.. and no, LRMs have NOTHING TO DO WITH IT..

1) Game's core design being stale - all mechs are essentially the same, except for different visuals..

2) No substance and immersion behind the fighting - fighting all day long, over and over on the same few maps gets stale - fast.

3) Broken features, lack of quality design, new mechs coming out with broken animations, hosts of minor bugs not fixed after months or even years..

4) Big units seal clubbing new players or even solo veterans - constant loses get old fast, weather you're getting pummeled by LRMs or one-shotted by Gauss/PPC, lasers or SRM.. it's just dumb

5) Constant balancing and re-balancing - people don't like having their favorite toys nerfed, so what ever is getting nerfed to make room for new things or new meta, somebody is gonna get pissed and rage quit.

6) Aside from mechs, there is very few new things since the game was in closed beta. And this is a 6 year old game. New and more exciting games have appeared, with less bugs and bullshait, and people move on

7) Game leadership refuses to take direction from fans and veterans, keeps doing the same old thing, doesn't invest in marketing and is just milking the same people for more weapon-carrying skins a.k.a. mechs.

8) The salt is heavy.. and some people have had enough of it and have left. There isn't enough being done to curb improper behavior, and this is why some minorities or playstlyes (like LRMs) are openly ridiculed. Nobody like to be only ridiculed with no backup.

9) When sweeping changes are implemented (like skill tree), they are often implemented poorly, and even when they are great, the part of the community that was on top before the changes, naturally, doesn't like the changes, so they protest and rage quit.

10) Old, clunky, resource-heavy engine, in an old game, where people expect much more than the game is offering. Host of basic functionalities missing, constant bugs and issues with even the basic stuff (like patch updating).

In conclusion, the game is still fun, but so are Mario Cart and Pacman. If you get me. If you don't want to play Pacman, you pick up Star Citizen. You get more bang for your buck.

THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING.

Edited by Vellron2005, 20 August 2018 - 02:42 AM.


#64 Khobai

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:38 AM

The only real hope MWO has right now is for MW5 to be successful.

If MW5 is commercially successful it will bring people back to MWO.

I cant see any other way to get MWO out of its death spiral.

#65 Tiewolf

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:57 AM

View PostKhobai, on 20 August 2018 - 02:38 AM, said:

The only real hope MWO has right now is for MW5 to be successful.

If MW5 is commercially successful it will bring people back to MWO.

I cant see any other way to get MWO out of its death spiral.

Nah that won`t happen. If MW5 is successful MWO will shut down and the PvP feature will be integrated in MW5. No company supports 2 engines in the long run and PGI can sell you the same mechs again and again. So there is no reason for PGI to keep MWO alive past 2019. They just try to squize as much money out of it as possible before they pull the plug.

#66 Bud Crue

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:24 AM

Man with all these types of threads of late both here and on reddit, it makes me wonder what Mechcon will be like this year. A big “no worries about mwo, here comes MW5” party, or a wake.

#67 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 08:09 AM

5 years of playing MWO........



#68 ShaneoftheDead

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:25 AM

It will take a lot more than an LRM nerf and a Piranha nerf to save MWO in the long run.

Short Term Fixes
- Remove Mech Restrictions on Drop-Decks - Let IS players take Clan Mechs and vice versa. *BAM* Faction Play balanced and possibly fun again, if that is your cup of tea.
- Reduce Solaris Buckets - Ideally, down to 1. Couple ways to do this. Laziest is to remove all "Divisions" and let the chaos work itself out as the players figure out which Mechs and builds work. A more desirable way would be to limit things to 1 division, or 1 weight, at a time and rotate through them. Keep it to a regular schedule, if possible. Maybe every week and give out the prizes for that "division" at the end of that week. This will keep things fresh every week and concentrate, instead of dissipate.
- Play Test Every Patch on the Test Server - Two weeks before patch day, you push what you have to the Test Server and let us play test it for a day or two. Get feed back and address priority issues with that last week or so before patch day.

Long Term Fixes
- Update Graphics Engine - Game is 6 years old, old age in Video Game years. Best bet is to take the MWM:5 engine after it's release and port it over into MWO. This alone may give 6 more years of income.
- Fix the Critical Hit System - as others have said, there is something not quite right about it. Even before the recent machine gun events, there were signs that Critical Hits were not quite right. Need to remove any Critical at all when beyond optimal range of the weapon. Need to address the "<weapon> quickly brushed across my mech and I lost all my weapons" issue. There may be some bug in the underlying code that is handing out too many "hits". I recommend a code inspection and review over the Critical Hit code and the RNG.
- Redo the Match Maker - Throw out the PSR and base MM on Mech Battle Value (think Sabermetrics) or possibly on Mech Battle Value on a per Player basis. The Tier system and PSR does not truly reflect how any given player will perform in a match with any Mech and build they use. By Battle Value, I mean a way of measuring the performance of what that Mech can do in combat rather than how many times it happened to be in a winning match.
- Tweak the Skill Tree - Not that critical, but I would think it is time for buff of the nodes that are not used much. Perhaps make them worth taking, but be wary of game-changers. Really think out the consequences. But, this could allow players to really make up for perceived shortcomings. Think your Assault lost too much Torso speed, maybe let the nodes give it all back and more? (I try to do this with my Battlemasters with mediocre results) Also, maybe a re-positioning of some of the nodes by moving up nodes you wish to "buff" and moving down nodes you wish to "nerf"? All this will require play testing on the Test Server. Please do not just drop bombs like this live on patch day.
- Balance - This is a 2-parter.
1) All weapons should come from the same "universe" and damage should be paid for in a consistent way across all weapon systems either in Heat, Tonnage, Ammo Capacity, Slots, Recycle Time, etc. Even Clan Weaponry. Think Yin and Yang.
2) After weapons are balanced, Mechs are given quirk adjustments when their Battle Value is compared to their weight piers. The average 50 Ton Mech should be slightly better in Battle Value than the average 45 Ton Mech, and so on. If weapons are altered, Mechs must be examined again and their quirks adjusted.

#69 FupDup

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:32 AM

View PostTiewolf, on 20 August 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

Nah that won`t happen. If MW5 is successful MWO will shut down and the PvP feature will be integrated in MW5. No company supports 2 engines in the long run and PGI can sell you the same mechs again and again. So there is no reason for PGI to keep MWO alive past 2019. They just try to squize as much money out of it as possible before they pull the plug.

If PGI made everybody buy all of their 100+ mechs in a new game all over again it would unleash a tide of rage unlike anything the internet has ever seen before.

#70 brroleg

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:53 AM

View PostVellron2005, on 20 August 2018 - 02:23 AM, said:

Star Citizen. You get more bang for your buck.

THAT IS WHY PEOPLE ARE LEAVING.

What? MWO is completely free, so "bang for your buck" of this game is approaching infinity. And MWO is probably best F2P on the market. (MWLL also close to the best free game, but it lucks stability net code animation etc.)

Star Citizen cost alot, its probably most expensive game on the market, and it still does not have any real gameplay, so "bang for your buck" of Star Citizen is approaching zero.

#71 Almond Brown

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:56 AM

When the last of the "Armchair Developers" finally move on from MWO, then perhaps the new players incoming can give it an unbiased and unsalted try.

As is, the Salt Shakers seem only 3/4 empty and the most Bitter of the Salt is always at the bottom of the shaker... Posted Image

BT as a video game has a pretty Niche following, no doubt. We only have to look at why MWO exists and we still await MW5 (5+ years on now) as for the reason (Investors would not touch it as a SP game). It has nothing to do with whether the franchise is still viable as a whole...
Much larger Dev groups are making way ******** games, with much more viable IP's, on budgets that would choke a horse, versus what the MWO Dev started with day 1. That is what is really sad about gaming to day fcol...

Edited by Almond Brown, 20 August 2018 - 10:00 AM.


#72 Tiewolf

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 02:27 PM

View PostFupDup, on 20 August 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

If PGI made everybody buy all of their 100+ mechs in a new game all over again it would unleash a tide of rage unlike anything the internet has ever seen before.

Well i don`t think that there will be a "tide of rage" rather then happy whales stranding on PGI`s shores to drop their money.
PGI knows that so I would be very surprised if that wouldn`t happen. But hey we will find out.

Edited by Tiewolf, 20 August 2018 - 02:28 PM.


#73 Anjian

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:12 PM

View PostMischiefSC, on 19 August 2018 - 08:29 PM, said:


A downtrend for one quarter over 8 years is nothing. It's actually incredible that it's had 8 solid years as a niche game. The reality is that for an indie self-published game MWO is a huge success story and the fact that MW5 is made and getting released is also pretty incredible. It's winning the lotto odds to pull off. I'm critical of a lot of things but from the perspective of someone who works in analytics and who spent many long years in the gaming industry MWO is a successful game. It missed the opportunity to become a breakout world hit but so do 99.99999% of games. it's run for almost a decade and is still turning enough of a profit to help fund the development of a newer game in a new engine.


Huge? Did you notice the other three games I placed on the chart are also F2P indie games with a brand new IP?

Quote

Steam has 26,553 total registered games right now. MWO fits on a very short list of games that have lasted 8 years and is only multiplayer. The IP is a really, really resilient one. It's lasted 30 years and still makes sales across all platforms from games to minis to tabletop to hardcopy books. You'd struggle to put 10 names in that category. If the IP had ended up in the hands of, say, Blizzard instead of Microsoft it would be a household name.


I can also see indie games that in a shorter time or so has become massively successful without a big publisher or IP backing. Take for instance DoTA 2 and PUBG. For an IP with a glorious past like Mechwarrior, we should not have a low goalpost comparing MWO to the many low end crappy games.

Quote

It's not about having missed greatness, it's that it had near-misses largely because of mishandling. Movie, cartoon, over 100 novels just in english (there's like 30+ that are only in German as an example), it's got a long list of successes. The IP is a powerhouse. It just ended up with the digital media in bad hands and some poor business decisions about its media opportunities.

In the right hands the IP could blow up in a big way.


The paper print of novels is gone since MW Dark Age closed. That game alone would have made as much money as a successful mobile gacha game today. Today, you only have the literature in ebook form. The movie and cartoons are horrible and would constitute damage to the IP. A much smaller IP like Heavy Gear had a much better cartoon.

The emphasis for Germany is a bit overrated, and there is probably more players from Russia on MWO. I also think the lack of marketing on East and West Europe was a big mistake. A further big mistake was the lack of marketing on Japan, South Korea and the general Southeast Asian market where you have nation-size loads of players who grew up on anime mecha but where Battletech has zero presence. This is not even mentioning the Middle East and South American markets.

Too much emphasis on IP. In fact, North America and Europe may have the smallest mech interested players of all continents, and this has a lot to do in direct proportion with mech anime exposure, and as I said, the places with the highest mech related media exposure are the places Battletech has little to no presence at all.

My analysis on the rise and success of War Robots hinges on something MWO hadn't have and that is a bunch of highly competent devs. Whether the game will still succeed under new ownership and these team having left to create a whole new mech game (Battle of Titans) is another question. Another strong factor in the success of War Robots is that it was able to fill all these continental and regional sized gaps in the market --- the Asian, Middle East, Russian, Japanese, Korean, South American --- through internationalization and localization for different languages --- as well as through digital marketing. The game would hit you with players that have Japanese, Chinese, Korean, Cyrillic, Thai characters on their names, along with all the Filipino, Vietnamese, Malaysian, Brazilian, Mexican, and Indian clans galore. I have even seen players from Iran, Turkey and Qatar. This sheer sense of internationalization is something I have yet managed to see in any mech game throughout my life, much less from any Battletech and Mechwarrior game. A third factor is that the game is highly YouTube and Twitch friendly. MWO can be made YouTube and Twitch friendly but PGI lacks the concerted focus on community content support like Pixonic did, a model which they emulated from Wargaming. A fourth factor is that the mobile gaming is the biggest growth in gaming and possibly its very future. You really cannot beat over 300 million mobile devices added every year versus about 50 to 60 million PCs that is shrinking every year and a growing segment of these PCs are really Chromebooks.

The Battletech IP needs a boost. A new and competent developer team, a focus on global markets, a focus on YouTube and Twitch, and not the least, its about time to examine a Mechwarrior game on mobile, where the hardware resources are ripe for a quality 3D shooter, as well as strategy games where mobile is booming. For a mobile game, there would be more compromises for playability over lore than its needed for a PC version, but the idea for this game is bring maximum exposure to a vast audience that never heard of Battletech before and deliver a steady stream of income. A more lore friendly game can be developed for the PC or even consoles that could lure these players over if they wanted a more lore detailed game. Microsoft should not object to Mechwarrior games on iOS and Android, considering they got their own apps on these platforms.

Edited by Anjian, 20 August 2018 - 04:15 PM.


#74 S O L A I S

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 10:36 PM

View PostChados, on 18 August 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I wouldn't be too worried, OP. LRMs are about to get giga-nerfed in the next patch, with Artemis lock timing and tracking strength being removed, the size of the lock cone being halved, and ECM getting buffed back to pre-2016 levels. Imagine how the skill tree is going to affect that. After the Tuesday patch, LRMs will be a thing of the past except for the odd LRM-80 spud staring at people from long range and hoping for a spotter to TAG or drop a UAV.


Giga nerfed? Really?

Cause Artemis is only used by spuds right now as it is anyways, organised teams use narcers and need the tonnage for more ammo.

Lock cone nerf? Yeah if I can burn down a Locust with heavy larges, I think I will be ok tracking a target whilst safely huddled behind cover with the 50% reduction (seriously it was insanely too easy to keep locks with current mechanic). I actually brought it up before and this is the right direction to keep them more on par with the level of effort to use the weapon when compared to other choices.

LRMs a thing of the past come Tuesday...er, well either you are very, very new around here or you recently bumped your head. There have always been waaaaay too many people bringing lurms to matches even when they were really bad. There's never going to be a time in this game where lurms are rare. Ever.

#75 MW Waldorf Statler

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:17 AM

View PostBud Crue, on 20 August 2018 - 04:24 AM, said:

Man with all these types of threads of late both here and on reddit, it makes me wonder what Mechcon will be like this year. A big “no worries about mwo, here comes MW5” party, or a wake.

MW5 not coming this year

https://www.polygon....ries-delay-2019

while

Quote

MechWarrior 5: Mercenaries is being delayed,” Bullock said, “so that we can deliver the best single-player MechWarrior experience to date. [...] We are well aware of the responsibility and great opportunity we have in re-introducing MechWarrior to the world.”
tahts the same ,what Russ say before the Start of MWO

we will seeing which Year MW5 is coming and in which status ...will interesting to seeing first scripted Missions and AI and all other was PGI not can imported in MWO

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 21 August 2018 - 12:51 PM.


#76 Mole

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:22 AM

So I am beginning to wonder if MWO really is dying this time. It's been said over and over and over again since beta yet here we all still are. But this time feels different. Maybe it's actually happening this time. It has to happen eventually. It happens to every game eventually. But your assertion that LRMs being OP is in any way, shape, or form the reason for the loss of MWO's population is quite frankly laughable.

#77 FireStoat

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

View PostTiewolf, on 20 August 2018 - 02:57 AM, said:

Nah that won`t happen. If MW5 is successful MWO will shut down and the PvP feature will be integrated in MW5. No company supports 2 engines in the long run and PGI can sell you the same mechs again and again. So there is no reason for PGI to keep MWO alive past 2019. They just try to squize as much money out of it as possible before they pull the plug.

The issue with this is that Mechwarrior 5 is built on the Unreal Engine, and has full mod support as part of its announced launch features. Plus Co-op. Those three things will allow for a Solaris 7 pvp of 2v2 within the first 3 weeks of the game being out. Modders will pull it off. Looking even further down the road, I'm perplexed with what PGI could offer that Modders wouldn't be willing to tackle on their own, excluding maybe more mech assets.

#78 Dragonporn

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 12:26 PM

For past 3 days, QP was dead in a water for me, I sat in queue for solid 5+ minutes and nothing, then I just quit. I know it's low pop period or something but can we expect playerbase to increase, even just a little anytime soon? Because it gets unplayable, but I really like blowing steam off on MWO in the evening... Possibly FP events draw pop out as well, but it gives me a gut feeling that QP pop won't recover after the events. Thing is, since FP has no bar, it will most likely completely destroy fun for both puggers and those who have to drop with them, I don't see players returning after that much frustration.

View PostFireStoat, on 21 August 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

The issue with this is that Mechwarrior 5 is built on the Unreal Engine, and has full mod support as part of its announced launch features. Plus Co-op. Those three things will allow for a Solaris 7 pvp of 2v2 within the first 3 weeks of the game being out. Modders will pull it off. Looking even further down the road, I'm perplexed with what PGI could offer that Modders wouldn't be willing to tackle on their own, excluding maybe more mech assets.

Lately "full" mod support becomes a marketing term rather than the real statement. I wanna believe that modders can truly do anything they want with this game, but reality can be different, because most studios wouldn't want licensing issues that this may incur. As a reference, we were promised mod support for Dawn of War 3 as well, and there was one... would be better if there wasn't any at all.

#79 x Deathstrike x

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 12:44 PM

View PostFireStoat, on 21 August 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

The issue with this is that Mechwarrior 5 is built on the Unreal Engine, and has full mod support as part of its announced launch features. Plus Co-op. ...


You seriously believe everything PGI is announcing?
If they announced a self-learning AI, holograms and a direct connection to your brain would you believe that too?

Edited by x Deathstrike x, 21 August 2018 - 12:44 PM.


#80 Doriam

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 12:45 PM

I stoped plaing MWO from Summer 2017, cause non-stopable nerfing of Clans from patch to patch. And when I sometimes comeback to read forum, I see that direction didn't changed at all, and I become happy that I droped this game and spended time for something else =]





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