148 replies to this topic

[Uhtred the Pagan]

The vets slowly started fading away since a while, but nothing made them stop playing more than the recent atrocities. I play MWO 50 hours a week since 3 years, and I see clearly whats going on. If you dont do something quickly, PGI, the downward spiral will kill this great game soon before it can recover. I know why people stop playing.

LRM being so OP resulted with an abuse of its usage(understandable), which makes games boring and really low quality in every tiers and every hour of the day. The result is that people stop playing or play alot less. And the result of having less players online is even lower quality games(cause vets are matched and forced to play with total n00bs), and the incapacity to play group QP unless it's peak time. Which results in more people stop playing or playing less. Downward spiral.

The opiness of PIR is not as big a problem cause less than 1% of the players are good enough at piloting light mechs to take full advantage of this ridiculous OP mech design. But it sure is a problem in the rare group games where both teams have good pilots. While any n00b pilot can easily be effective by simply abusing LRM. I'm not saying PIR doesn't require nerf though, just that it's not killing this game as much as LRM does.

Putting your energy on new features that divide even further the already limited community is not a good idea. Before Solaris, we had 4 different queues. 5 if you count COMP. With even 4 queues, Faction Play was already dead. Why? Lack of interest, sure, but the main reason is the lack of players. The lack of interest comes quickly when you're playing with the same players constantly and it takes forever to find a game. So, PGI, your idea was to add 7 more queues that divide the online players into 11 queues, 12 with COMP. I understand that you were hoping it would bring more players into the game, but it doesn't, and it only helps killing this game faster. You should put your energy into adding more maps for Quick Play, balancing stuff and hell, improving the graphics. Old graphics is what turns away most new potential players.

What happened before to Faction Play and Solaris is now happening to Quick Play, because of what I said above. The Downward Spiral happens quickly and MWO won't survive past 2019 if you keep your heads into the sand. Here's solutions:

How to balance LRM.
-Reduce LRM velocity by 20, to 170.
-Reduce LRM's health per missile by 20-25%.
-Increase AMS optimal range to 180.

LRM had constant boosts to cooldown and also a recent one to heat. A MASSIVE boost to ammo(33% compared to 20% for ballistics and other missiles) which means less ammo is required, which means LRM takes less tonnage and space than before, which means a LRM mech equips bigger LRM than before. And the ridiculous +30 velocity. 190 velocity + skill tree 15% velocity results with the incapacity to take cover in time for even medium mechs. With the nerfs I suggest, LRM will still be powerful, and it will reward and encourage people to use AMS and make them effective when they do.

Right now AMS is only powerful vs ATM(actually its EXTREMELY powerful cause ATM has a ridiculous low health per missile, which needs to be adressed). LRM has too much health per missile, and AMS being so short range makes it that in most games, that mech wont destroy much missiles to make it worth sacrificing tonnage and space for AMS. Plus, if the enemy team has no locked missiles, its a waste of investment, while LRM can always be used whatever the enemy has. The LRM mech has range and positioning advantages which allow it to fire at almost any target, where the AMS mech needs to move where the LRMs are launched(yes I know, unless it goes near the LRM mech but LRM mechs are usually behind brawlers and other range mechs).

Its the perfect solution since I know you guys did this to make LRM viable in T1 games. LRM will still be OP vs a team with no AMS and still be effective in T1 games, but it will be balanced if facing a few AMS.

How to balance Piranha.
-Reduce its base mobility stats(acceleration, deceleration, turn rate).
-Lower a bit the max engine.
-Make PIR's skin a little bigger.

Since you never modify the hard points on a mech, the only thing you can do is nerfing the mobility and make the mech more vulnerable. Nerfing the machine guns is not the solution. MGs are balanced. They only become OP on a mech that has speed and multiple ballistic hardpoints. In the hands of a good light pilot, this mech is a locust with the firepower of an assault. My theory is that you think its balanced cause you look at the general stats of all players playing with this mech. And of course the stats show that the PIR is not that great. The problem is that 99.5% of those players totally suck with it, dont even know how to manoeuver with it, let alone be effective at brawling with it. But when you see a good pilot using it, it's even more OP than the Kodiak on release, based on tonnage.

Don't let this game die.
Thank you.

[xe N on]

LRMs are one of the least problems in the game ...

[Jon Gotham]

The worst issue is the players themselves and their attitude towards online gaming i.e massively multiplayer solo gaming....

[Prototelis]

Uhtred the Pagan, on 18 August 2018 - 09:22 AM, said:

How to balance Piranha.
-Reduce its base mobility stats(acceleration, deceleration, turn rate).
-Lower a bit the max engine.
-Make PIR's skin a little bigger.

1. Only make it easier to use. Less agility will literally lead to less paint brushing.
2. No.
3. A humanoid mech that is forced to stare down its targets in order to be effective is already at a huge disadvantage.

This is a prime example of what actually drives players away. Balance by bawling; a community curated for crybabies.

It killed you, so obviously its unfair. Better nerf it!

LRMS aren't the reason solo or Group Q are slow. The game is slowing down because it lacks direction and new/meaningful content. All the balance in the world wouldn't keep the status quo from getting boring.

Match quality sucks because the matchmaker is only designed to keep new players away from moderately experienced players. It only serves to let people fall up the ranks.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I agree that the player base, no matter what PGI has done with the IP, have always been the biggest problem. We're talking about a decent portion of the btech player base having more than likely raged and throwing dice across the room while playing the tabletop game at various times in their lives.

[Chados]

I wouldn't be too worried, OP. LRMs are about to get giga-nerfed in the next patch, with Artemis lock timing and tracking strength being removed, the size of the lock cone being halved, and ECM getting buffed back to pre-2016 levels. Imagine how the skill tree is going to affect that. After the Tuesday patch, LRMs will be a thing of the past except for the odd LRM-80 spud staring at people from long range and hoping for a spotter to TAG or drop a UAV.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

what the hell have all with LRMs? skill tree Radar Dep.max and not run with fat Assaults of open terrain while brawling is the only cool Art to fight with a mech like the trashnovells..teh Maps most very small and you find most cover , when the lRM team is not a Good team with coordinated Palyers and Narcers and Spotters ...and to hell Boys watch the Sky for UAVs

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 18 August 2018 - 11:13 AM.

[El Bandito]

Chados, on 18 August 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I wouldn't be too worried, OP. LRMs are about to get giga-nerfed in the next patch, with Artemis lock timing and tracking strength being removed, the size of the lock cone being halved, and ECM getting buffed back to pre-2016 levels. Imagine how the skill tree is going to affect that. After the Tuesday patch, LRMs will be a thing of the past except for the odd LRM-80 spud staring at people from long range and hoping for a spotter to TAG or drop a UAV.

Where did you get the info? The PTS announcement says nothing about LRMs.

[C E Dwyer]

People have been saying this since closed beta.

I don't get the LRM QQing, I've not played since November 2017, both used and been on receiving end of it.

It's fine.

Just the torso twisting is so bad on Assaults right now, is really this games major flaw..

[JRcam4643]

The only thing I agree with is they screwed up Solaris. Graphics are a non issue. If you look through steam there are more new games with crap *** graphics than you can shake a stick at. New maps I would hate to see as well. LRMs seem to be in a pretty good place right now, it saddens me to hear a nerf is coming for them.

What is needed is a matchmaker that uses stats that matter to judge skill level. I think they need to change how planets are won and lost in FP and we need more details about battle performance in all game modes.

Oh, and they need to stop nerfing clans.

[Jackal Noble]

El Bandito, on 18 August 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

Where did you get the info? The PTS announcement says nothing about LRMs.

It’s been going around, I think it was from the ngng podcast #165

[Y E O N N E]

El Bandito, on 18 August 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

Where did you get the info? The PTS announcement says nothing about LRMs.

It's in PGI's Balance Discussion Thread, where it has been the focus despite that thread not originally being primarily about LRMs.

[Toothless]

MWO ONLINE WILL BE DEAD TOMORROW IF YOU DO NOT SHARE WITH AT LEAST 5 FRIENDS

SHARE WITH 10 FRIENDS AND PAUL WILL BE YOUR TRUE LOVE

[Monkey Lover]

Even a perfect balanced game wouldn't save MWO. They have to do something else new and big.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 18 August 2018 - 01:09 PM.

[Felbombling]

People don't like change, generally speaking. All the changes thrust upon the player base, especially over the last little while, will bite PGI in the @ss, I think. Their worst mistake has been the slow roll out of new Quick Play maps. I expected, after their library of game assets got more robust, that they'd be producing maps at a greater clip. That simply has not been the case.

Besides, PGI and many MechWarrior players are probably looking toward MechWarrior 5, anyway. If MechWarrior: Online dies, it dies.

[Davegt27]

Jon Gotham, on 18 August 2018 - 10:05 AM, said:

The worst issue is the players themselves and their attitude towards online gaming i.e massively multiplayer solo gaming....

Jon could you explain a bit further
this is my first online game

[Jon Gotham]

Davegt27, on 18 August 2018 - 01:27 PM, said:

Jon could you explain a bit further
this is my first online game

Basically, I've noticed quite a bit of resistance to teamwork and being social in this game. If you note how resistant people have been to join units and get onto TS, they'd rather Q up solo and then whine that people in teams beat them....blaming the people in teams for being unfair and "farmers" or blaming PGI like it's their fault people are teaming up in a team based game....
The main draw of online gaming is supposed to be the other players-that's why I play online games. I have single player games for when I want to play alone.
PGI doesn't seem to understand this super solo mentality, and frankly neither do I.

Granted the above is my opinion, but it is an opinion formed by listening to people in game and reading the whines on the forum about how unfair people who make friends are. But the solo play thing seems to be seeping into other online games, the irony of logging onto the net to play with other people to simply ignore the other people.......

[Chados]

El Bandito, on 18 August 2018 - 11:17 AM, said:

Where did you get the info? The PTS announcement says nothing about LRMs.

NGNG podcast mentioned above and the thread in the developer comments section. It’s a done deal, confirmed multiple times in the thread by Chris Lowry.

https://mwomercs.com...80#entry6150052

Edited by Chados, 18 August 2018 - 03:11 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

C E Dwyer, on 18 August 2018 - 11:35 AM, said:

People have been saying this since closed beta.

I don't get the LRM QQing, I've not played since November 2017, both used and been on receiving end of it.

It's fine.

Just the torso twisting is so bad on Assaults right now, is really this games major flaw..

chief...if you've not played since 2017...you've really got no say one way or the other in what's actually going on NOW, do you? (just like I really don't)

Though I fully agree with you about people claiming the sky is falling since the game bloody started.. that has never changed. That and Khobai being utterly full of it,

lol.

Speaking of which... guess post patch I'll have to actually put up or shut up myself... and go get my butt kicked around the maps some in a Vulcan for old times sake. Because... why the heck not?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 18 August 2018 - 03:59 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

Oh look, another LRM OP thread.

Easy, easy fix to the overly prevalent use of LRMs. Give all heavy and assault trial mechs 1 AMS with 1 ton of ammo, boost AMS ammo count to 2500-3000 per ton, and increase AMS base DPS to 125-130. No direct nerf to LRMs needed, though I would actually buff ATM health by 50% or even 75%, as they dodn't need to be deleted by AMS any faster than they already are.

As for nerfing the Piranha, A 10%-15% base mobility increase to most heavy and assault mechs is the only real nerf to the Piranha that's needed.

Agreed on ballistic ammo being under buffed compared to LRM ammo though, that should've been a higher increase.