139 replies to this topic

[Grus]

So this thread made me look up my light stats... and funny thing is my Deathknell (commando) has a higher KD and win rate than my PIR....

Commando op? Lol

[LordNothing]

El Bandito, on 18 August 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

Technically the most popular mech class across time is the heavy class. Which stands to reason that the heavy class attracts the most potatoes.

popular yes but for slightly more seasoned potatoes who have figured out that assaults arent all they are cracked up to be (or rather that they are clueless as to how to utilize the assault to its full potential and simply give up). but the fresh taters dont yet know that "moar tonnage" is not all its cracked up to be. they get one of the most outlandish 100 tonners available, stick an xl engine in it (and because they are potatoes they are poor and cant afford clantech), and then try to run it like some other class. they have to get ganked by pirhanas several times before they figure out that they just arent cut out for it. thats when they go back to heavies. i tell new players to start with heavies and mediums but of course they do their own thing.

Edited by LordNothing, 19 August 2018 - 06:35 AM.

[x Deathstrike x]

Bush Hopper, on 18 August 2018 - 11:36 PM, said:

Cool story from someone who doesn't play lights.

1.Probably you may have heard of the term "alt-account"?
2.57 games in season 24 with only this account soley PIR resulted in a K/D of 7.00.


3.I am observing leaderboards very closely and only since the PIR is available I have seen something like this:

[YueFei]

Who cares about K/D ratio? The only thing that matters is W/L.

PGI doesn't hold tournaments to see who gets the highest K/D ratio. Any tournament is built around who wins the most matches.

You can also tell that guy was doing something cheesy to maintain KDR, because he lost 25 games and only died 3 times.

Fixating on KDR is like picking a player for your basketball team simply because he averages a lot of points per game... and ignoring the fact that his team actually isn't doing so well, and that he's only scoring alot because he keeps jacking up low-percentage shots, making him a highly inefficient player.

[Jman5]

So I just want to preface this by saying that I'm with you. I don't think the top 10 lights are nearly as effective as the top 10 assaults. Perhaps for Conquest they are a little more effective, but in general it seems to be the Assaults that have the biggest impact on the outcome.

I think this is why it seems like 90% of those top tier players you see in the solo queue seem to all be playing the same handful of assault mechs. Because at the end of the day it's easier to dictate the outcome when you're averaging 800,900,1000 damage a game.

That said, come on man you can't play 14 games in an assault and compare with the 163 games you played in a light. I guarantee you your assault WLR will revert to a more realistic number after you've played more games.

[panzer1b]

The problem with lights is that the vast majority of MWO players dont understand how to play them properly. Suiciding within the 1st 2 minutes and doing 50 dmg is not the right way to play a light, neither is farming AFKers that are unlucky enough to have a bad connection/computer.

The reason assaults are so good is because most of the semi good players play them alot, as they have much higher potential to carry games (better then lights at least) when positioned correctly, and oftentimes they net you loads of damage, so obviously stats on assaults will be above that of lights.

That and one of the toughest things with light mechs is that teh vast majority of them dont have any room for mistakes. You turn a corner right at a dual heavy gauss mech, you are done in an instant. You commit at the wrong time, you get legged and die. You hang back too much during the game, and you essentially dont do squat. I can go on about the number of situations i see all the time that lights tend to do, and because of that i think that lights just arent a mech that can be played by unskilled hands at all, whereas assault mechs are pretty much guaranteed to do at least 300 dmg even with a total potato behind the stick.

Still, if you erally want to play a light and keep dying, try something like a wolfhound or the more tankier choices, dont just get in a feesh-1 and expect to singlehandedly wipe out the entire enemy team by holding down W+M1.

[Steel Claws]

panzer1b, on 19 August 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

The problem with lights is that the vast majority of MWO players dont understand how to play them properly. Suiciding within the 1st 2 minutes and doing 50 dmg is not the right way to play a light, neither is farming AFKers that are unlucky enough to have a bad connection/computer.

The reason assaults are so good is because most of the semi good players play them alot, as they have much higher potential to carry games (better then lights at least) when positioned correctly, and oftentimes they net you loads of damage, so obviously stats on assaults will be above that of lights.

That and one of the toughest things with light mechs is that teh vast majority of them dont have any room for mistakes. You turn a corner right at a dual heavy gauss mech, you are done in an instant. You commit at the wrong time, you get legged and die. You hang back too much during the game, and you essentially dont do squat. I can go on about the number of situations i see all the time that lights tend to do, and because of that i think that lights just arent a mech that can be played by unskilled hands at all, whereas assault mechs are pretty much guaranteed to do at least 300 dmg even with a total potato behind the stick.

Still, if you erally want to play a light and keep dying, try something like a wolfhound or the more tankier choices, dont just get in a feesh-1 and expect to singlehandedly wipe out the entire enemy team by holding down W+M1.

That's my experience also. I find lights and mediums far easier to drive and score with. Lights used correctly are very effective. My biggest issue is having enough good players on your drop to not be the last one left alive.

[Ghogiel]

x Deathstrike x, on 19 August 2018 - 07:11 AM, said:

1.Probably you may have heard of the term "alt-account"?
2.57 games in season 24 with only this account soley PIR resulted in a K/D of 7.00.


3.I am observing leaderboards very closely and only since the PIR is available I have seen something like this:

Not quite. Zexator used to run a locust, where he would poach kills as much as possible then run off and hide powered down if the fight was looking like it could go either way to pad his KD. He finished at least 1 season with with over 100kd. I've only seen him in solo queue. I ain't even mad because his match score was pretty good so he had to be doing something better then 99% other lights.

The PIR is very strong though, and it's totally changed the game in many ways. And you don't have to farm and pad on it for it to have good stats. In solo queue my stats on it are pretty amazing. Particularly match score and KD are really out of line with any of my lights, and are higher then my assaults. I played a night in group this month with it so if you look at the total stats on the leaderboard they are pretty fubar and meaningless. But it's one of the best pug farm mechs as well as top light pick for comp and organised play.

[kuma8877]

panzer1b, on 19 August 2018 - 11:10 AM, said:

The problem with lights is that the vast majority of MWO players dont understand how to play them properly. Suiciding within the 1st 2 minutes and doing 50 dmg is not the right way to play a light, neither is farming AFKers that are unlucky enough to have a bad connection/computer.

The reason assaults are so good is because most of the semi good players play them alot, as they have much higher potential to carry games (better then lights at least) when positioned correctly, and oftentimes they net you loads of damage, so obviously stats on assaults will be above that of lights.

That and one of the toughest things with light mechs is that teh vast majority of them dont have any room for mistakes. You turn a corner right at a dual heavy gauss mech, you are done in an instant. You commit at the wrong time, you get legged and die. You hang back too much during the game, and you essentially dont do squat. I can go on about the number of situations i see all the time that lights tend to do, and because of that i think that lights just arent a mech that can be played by unskilled hands at all, whereas assault mechs are pretty much guaranteed to do at least 300 dmg even with a total potato behind the stick.

Still, if you erally want to play a light and keep dying, try something like a wolfhound or the more tankier choices, dont just get in a feesh-1 and expect to singlehandedly wipe out the entire enemy team by holding down W+M1.

Some of the skill in piloting the faster smaller lights, is understanding most of the minutiae in those brief windows of opportunity for survival. As in your corner rounding case, often, I am more likely to not get iced on the spot if I peg the gas and dart out and towards the dual HGR platform (whichever it is) if it is alone. I'm counting on charge up and target tracking (pilot hand eye and mech movement mechanics) to make the shot more difficult for the opposing player. Most players will wiff those.

This also brings up, from your example, what if there are multiple mechs around that corner? Are they engaged? Are they also aware of me? What are my opportunities for evasion or to use cover to shield my passage? Are there targets of opportunity to prioritize over others? Who do I need to avoid? This is all happening at breakneck speeds and is not for everyone. In a light, every combat engagement, no matter how brief, can end in your demise if you aren't on your toes at all times. That's why I love them so much. Every match is edge of your seat stuff.

I generally have a pretty aggressive playstyle and can often be found on the leading edge of a push, focusing fire, holding targets, sharing armor/ECM and trying to draw fire off of my larger teammates. There's really nothing like it anywhere else in my experience...

[MischiefSC]

That the PIR is really strong skews how absolutely ****** lights are. Lights need a lot of work, so do mediums. Rescale was cancer for lights.

That the PIR is screwy because it super-boats MGs isn't an I education of how lights perform.

Give me me a Linebacker with 12 ballistic and 4 energy hardpoints and see what happens.

[JRcam4643]

Lights don't need to be buffed, not in general anyway. Part of the struggle with playing lights is you need to be good at fighting other lights if you want to run around on your own. For most people the best light mechs are probably the Adder, Couger, Urbie and Wolfhound. Those mechs mount decent firepower but are suited better to staying close to their teams.

Every light mech should not play the same and it's not a fault in the game if all pilots aren't good enough to master all play styles that are required for every mech.

[MischiefSC]

So do lights perform comparably to assaults for the same effort. Yes or no.

[Weeny Machine]

x Deathstrike x, on 19 August 2018 - 07:11 AM, said:

1.Probably you may have heard of the term "alt-account"?
2.57 games in season 24 with only this account soley PIR resulted in a K/D of 7.00.


3.I am observing leaderboards very closely and only since the PIR is available I have seen something like this:

Wow...for a 7.0 K/D ratio and a 297 match score---wqhich is pathetic low. Do you use others as meatshields and then shoot the enemy before it collapses?

And the lower one...heck, I wouldn't show that at all, simply because it disqualifies you on so many levels.

If you wanted to impress me, you failed miserably.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 19 August 2018 - 01:52 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

x Deathstrike x, on 19 August 2018 - 07:11 AM, said:

3.I am observing leaderboards very closely and only since the PIR is available I have seen something like this:

The pilot you quoted here is infamous for using Ach for the past years and subsequently HBR to hide and ks. Finally running away from objectives and hiding if he is the last one remaining. Hence the 25 losses and only 3 deaths. He will always make alts to farm t3 to t5 where they are extremely clueless. Still his dedication to a certain playstyle is "impressive" albeit scummy. There is a certain skill level there despite the detractors. Check out the other seasons, those with the ridiculous KDRs are almost all his using an Ach.

Jman5, on 19 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

So I just want to preface this by saying that I'm with you. I don't think the top 10 lights are nearly as effective as the top 10 assaults. Perhaps for Conquest they are a little more effective, but in general it seems to be the Assaults that have the biggest impact on the outcome.

I think this is why it seems like 90% of those top tier players you see in the solo queue seem to all be playing the same handful of assault mechs. Because at the end of the day it's easier to dictate the outcome when you're averaging 800,900,1000 damage a game.

That said, come on man you can't play 14 games in an assault and compare with the 163 games you played in a light. I guarantee you your assault WLR will revert to a more realistic number after you've played more games.

reversion to mediocrity?

Sure. Maybe. We'll see how it goes for the next few matches

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 19 August 2018 - 04:40 PM.

[General Solo]

So Ach is ez not Assualt?

[UnofficialOperator]

OZHomerOZ, on 19 August 2018 - 06:21 PM, said:

So Ach is ez not Assualt?

Shrug. WLR is the true measure of carry. Not really KDR. Shouldn't you know that by now.

Besides I'm refuting the Deathstrike guy because the Ach guy has been driving the HBR recently and I've never ever seen him driving a pir. So HBR overpowered?

Seriously wish you guys will read the thread properly for once then keep trying to derail. Comparing an entire class of Assaults that can carry a team in WLR vs only 1 light which can ks very well is ridiculous imo. Good try trying to reframe it.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 19 August 2018 - 10:16 PM.

[Wil McCullough]

Bush Hopper, on 19 August 2018 - 01:51 PM, said:

Wow...for a 7.0 K/D ratio and a 297 match score---wqhich is pathetic low. Do you use others as meatshields and then shoot the enemy before it collapses?

And the lower one...heck, I wouldn't show that at all, simply because it disqualifies you on so many levels.

If you wanted to impress me, you failed miserably.

He's in a light. Not a heavy or assault. If he isn't using teammates as "meatshields", he's doing something wrong.

He's also averaging ~2 kills a match. That's pretty damn good if it's purely qp. Low score with that kind of kill rate only tells me he can aim and hit what he's aiming at instead of splashing damage all over the place.

[Khobai]

Jman5, on 19 August 2018 - 10:29 AM, said:

So I just want to preface this by saying that I'm with you. I don't think the top 10 lights are nearly as effective as the top 10 assaults. Perhaps for Conquest they are a little more effective, but in general it seems to be the Assaults that have the biggest impact on the outcome.

working as intended. assaults should always be more effective at combat than lights. why should a 35 ton mech be as good as an 80+ ton mech at combat? that whole notion is ridiculous.

the problem here is we need more gamemodes like conquest that emphasize speed and less gamemodes like skirmish that emphasize combat above everything. its entirely the gamemodes that are at fault for lights not being able to play to their strengths.

the whole point of a light is that they get to use their speed choose when and where to engage. but when you have gamemodes like skirmish/domination where its mostly predetermined where combat will take place, it only serves to weaken lights by removing their ability to dictate where engagements occur.

skirmish and its variants being static undynamic boring gamemodes is the whole problem.

gamemodes like domination would be so much better if there were multiple circles you had to control. that would force teams to spread out and the ability of lights to use their speed to respond to the changing battlefield would make them much more valuable.

Edited by Khobai, 20 August 2018 - 12:49 AM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Khobai, on 20 August 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

working as intended. assaults should always be more effective at combat than lights. why should a 35 ton mech be as good as an 80+ ton mech at combat? that whole notion is ridiculous.

Thanks for confirming that assaults are ez mode. Working as intended.

I guess Assault pilots should QQ less about lights now.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 20 August 2018 - 01:28 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Khobai, on 20 August 2018 - 12:44 AM, said:

working as intended. assaults should always be more effective at combat than lights. why should a 35 ton mech be as good as an 80+ ton mech at combat? that whole notion is ridiculous.

the problem here is we need more gamemodes like conquest that emphasize speed and less gamemodes like skirmish that emphasize combat above everything. its entirely the gamemodes that are at fault for lights not being able to play to their strengths.

the whole point of a light is that they get to use their speed choose when and where to engage. but when you have gamemodes like skirmish/domination where its mostly predetermined where combat will take place, it only serves to weaken lights by removing their ability to dictate where engagements occur.

skirmish and its variants being static undynamic boring gamemodes is the whole problem.

gamemodes like domination would be so much better if there were multiple circles you had to control. that would force teams to spread out and the ability of lights to use their speed to respond to the changing battlefield would make them much more valuable.

I'll start playing again the moment pgi introduces game modes like the one you described.

Unfortunately, potato assault pilots in this game whine so much already if they just get left a couple of grid squares behind. Nascar wah wah and all that. If pgi introduces game modes where lights can leverage their speed abd mobility even more than they currently can, the salt will be dead sea level.

For a truly level playing field, the solution for this seems to be either a) introduce game modes which will lead to incredible whining or make it so all mech classes are equivalent, which will also lead to incredible whining cos it means buffing lights even more. They are, after all, the worst performing class in the game still.