453 replies to this topic

[Bud Crue]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 August 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Its a bit more complicated then that.

I feel the need to remind everyone that what he was quoting from was a developer post so he is not wrong to call these things into question when we go against what we have previously publicly stated, and I can understand the frustration when developers put out conflicting statements. I have every intention of clearing this confusion up, but there are a number of things that I am in the middle of internally that I need to get off my plate before I can get the time to put in towards a definitive breakdown of everything. When I get the time I will put something up in this thread to address this.

Chris,

In all seriousness, when you do post your breakdown and explanation, might I suggest you post here and then do a dedicated thread for it (perhaps referencing Navid’s original question/citation)? That way we can have a clear post with definitive dev explanations for this topic, that isn’t buried here, but more readily and publicly accessible. Just a thought.

[MegaBopper]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 11:44 AM, said:

Many of the bad players have views that are flat-out wrong though. No amount of you wanting it will make certain things true. I've seen players bring absolutely mind-boggling mech builds to faction play drops... things like standard 200 engine Annihilators with nothing but close range weapons on polar highlands. If you try to tell them what a more appropriate mech choice would be, it's assumed your personally attacking them, and they get all defensive and say things like, "It's just a game, I'll play how I want!" well yea, its just a game... a team game. You bringing garbage directly effects me, because your on my team. There are lots of viable choices you can make, its just that there are many flat-out wrong ones too, and new players don't seem to get that, and doggedly stick to their guns even when demonstrably wrong.

When a suggestion is made in a supportive constructive manner that is one thing. When it is done by spraying bile all over the person implying they have no right to exist that is another. It crosses the line.

[HammerMaster]

Mikayshen, on 22 August 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

Except that's not how they worked. You rolled to see if you hit, if you hit then you rolled to see where you hit, applied heat and marked off the ammo expenditure. If you didn't hit then that was it, the missiles didn't fire and you didn't generate heat from that and you moved on to your next weapon.

Under guardian ecm
Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.[1] Contemporary guided missiles such as standard LRM or Streak SRMs are not affected by the Guardian suite and will be able to achieve hard lock as normal.[6]

Under Angel ecm
Game RulesThe Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves (normal, emergency, and boosted varieties, but not the Nova CEWS), Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.[2]

[Eisenhorne]

MegaBopper, on 22 August 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

When a suggestion is made in a supportive constructive manner that is one thing. When it is done by spraying bile all over the person implying they have no right to exist that is another. It crosses the line.

Agreed, but unfortunately nobody seems to understand the difference between them. I played a PUG faction drop yesterday... polar highlands, domination. We lost our first wave 1-12. We were mostly close range mechs, many of which were slow assaults or smaller mediums. Very few fast heavies, which is what you'd need if you wanna sustain a brawl push into an opponent with a range advantage. After that wave, I suggested that everyone that brought such close range mechs should bring longer range things next time on this map, because it's almost always a long range battle.

Some guy got angry at me, kept telling me to learn to play, that it's our fault for being "ER Sniper Cowards Who Refused To Push" (I had an ER Battlemaster, kept back and tried to counter-snipe some of the enemies ER Laser boats). He kept arguing that I should learn how to play. In the end, it was like 15-30 by the time the counter ticked down. I had 4 kills, 1800 damage, dude arguing with me had 0 kills, 200 damage.

People take any criticism personally, regardless of how correct or gently it is made. It leads to me being slightly jaded and bitter, and at times maybe being a bit sarcastic in game when I see garbage builds, but I've never *EVER* seen a guy actually take criticism well.

Another example... a unit member in my previous unit asks if he should use small lasers or small pulse lasers as a backup weapon on his Phoenix Hawk with an ERPPC and some machine guns. I suggest he should stick to a certain range, and optimize for it... like go for all ER Medium lasers, or go for all pulse / machine guns. He refuses to listen, instead says he likes being effective at all range. Sure... but that's going to ensure you're bad at all ranges you engage at instead of having a good range you should try to be in. Nobody actually wants to listen, they just want to have their own opinions reinforced.

[GweNTLeR]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 August 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Its a bit more complicated then that.

I feel the need to remind everyone that what he was quoting from was a developer post so he is not wrong to call these things into question when we go against what we have previously publicly stated, and I can understand the frustration when developers put out conflicting statements. I have every intention of clearing this confusion up, but there are a number of things that I am in the middle of internally that I need to get off my plate before I can get the time to put in towards a definitive breakdown of everything. When I get the time I will put something up in this thread to address this.

So, basically, you are saying that there is something more than you originally wrote here?
Why cant you look up in the code? Is PGI completely out of programmers? That's likely less than 5 minutes. I bet you wrote your answers regarding artemis longer.
Why haven't you canceled Artemis changes for this patch, since it surely IS gamechanging?

Edited by GweNTLeR, 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

Nobody actually wants to listen, they just want to have their own opinions reinforced.

True. In all parts of life. You just have to be mature enough to step back and reflect. Am I really being objective.
But here we are.
Brown sea swimming.

[MegaBopper]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 11:55 AM, said:

MegaBopper, on 22 August 2018 - 11:48 AM, said:

When a suggestion is made in a supportive constructive manner that is one thing. When it is done by spraying bile all over the person implying they have no right to exist that is another. It crosses the line.

Agreed, but unfortunately nobody seems to understand the difference between them. ... People take any criticism personally, regardless of how correct or gently it is made. It leads to me being slightly jaded and bitter, and at times maybe being a bit sarcastic in game ... Nobody actually wants to listen, they just want to have their own opinions reinforced.

I have found that people tend to react better and may be more open to comments made in a friendly supportive way that is less emotionally charged.

[HammerMaster]

Pelmeshek, on 22 August 2018 - 12:55 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 22 August 2018 - 02:21 PM.
nonconstructive

[Tiy0s]

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2018 - 01:02 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 22 August 2018 - 02:21 PM.
nonconstructive

[Thomasso]

Hahaha.. now we have lock-no missiles

[Sedmeister]

So, I'm liking the patch.

Some, maybe all LRM'rs will hang even further back whilst some may try moving forward to get their own locks.

Those moving forward and get smashed by direct fire weapons will hopefully be encouraged to diversify and bring direct fire weapons of their own and not rely on LRM's so much.

Those hanging back will be hunted down even more mercilessly, their "high scores" and poor win/loss ratios will lead to a frustration that a) drives them from the game or drives them to experiment with alternative builds or my hope c) drives them to interact with experienced players whom they can learn from.

So those saying this patch will only reinforce poor LRM antisocial behaviour, yes in the short term but hopefully no in the longer term.

Also, the need for dedicated LRM players to have to hold a tighter lock gives them an opportunity to improve their ability to aim, therefore hopefully making the transition from LRM's to direct fire weapons less of a learning curve.

Sincerely,

A player who started out preferring LRM's, who got frustrated, joined a unit, got good advice and can now aim in a half decent fashion.

PS - 145 mechs. 125 IS mechs. 3 LRM boats in the whole stable.

Edited by Sedmeister, 22 August 2018 - 02:07 PM.

[HammerMaster]

Tiy0s, on 22 August 2018 - 01:25 PM, said:

[Redacted]

[Redacted]

Edited by Tina Benoit, 22 August 2018 - 02:34 PM.
nonconstructive

[ShooteyMcShooterson]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 10:55 AM, said:

Lol? How exactly is a light pilot supposed to "git gud" to beat a streakboat? It was the laziest possible way to counter lights, using streaks... now a skilled light pilot has more of a chance at evading your lock, so instead of tagging it / using a UAV / using a targeting computer / using BAP or whatever to speed up locks, you just complain. Good job! Honestly if most players have this kind of attitude, I'd rather see the game die than balanced around this "playstyle".

I tend to think that so long as there are very hard to kill stealth lights and MG boats that can take down any mech in seconds when wolf packed, then the game needs to have some of direct, hard counter to them.

Also, streaks and atms need to work, or why do they exist?

[DeathStalker13]

Congratulations PGI, you really screwed up the streaks. No longer can streak mechs brawl on the front line, because of the new penalty to lock. They are also practically useless against the faster smaller mechs like the OP'd piranhas. I understand why you did it against the LRMs, but they have the convenience of distance. SRMs only operate in the short distances where they don't have the luxury to wait for extended locks. First on the top deck of HPG Manifold, first to peak over hill, or even scout around that corner...forget about it. The enemy can not notice you right away, spin around, and do the moonwalk before your streaks will finally lock. You have to fix this or the streaks will disappear from the battlefield like crossbows and flintlocks.

Edited by DeathStalker13, 22 August 2018 - 02:14 PM.

[The6thMessenger]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 August 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Its a bit more complicated then that.

I feel the need to remind everyone that what he was quoting from was a developer post so he is not wrong to call these things into question when we go against what we have previously publicly stated, and I can understand the frustration when developers put out conflicting statements. I have every intention of clearing this confusion up, but there are a number of things that I am in the middle of internally that I need to get off my plate before I can get the time to put in towards a definitive breakdown of everything. When I get the time I will put something up in this thread to address this.

Regardless, please do the forum a favor -- just this once -- and just fix Artemis to work like it was supposed to.

[MechaBattler]

I'll chip in that in my experience Streaks aren't easy to use against lights. They require you to follow a light long enough to get a lock. It's hard to do in certain environment and even harder if your mech isn't agile enough to keep track. So it's seems unfair to punish Streaks just to make LRM users try harder for their lock.

[Navid A1]

Chris Lowrey, on 22 August 2018 - 11:19 AM, said:

Its a bit more complicated then that.

I feel the need to remind everyone that what he was quoting from was a developer post so he is not wrong to call these things into question when we go against what we have previously publicly stated, and I can understand the frustration when developers put out conflicting statements. I have every intention of clearing this confusion up, but there are a number of things that I am in the middle of internally that I need to get off my plate before I can get the time to put in towards a definitive breakdown of everything. When I get the time I will put something up in this thread to address this.

Thanks for the responses.

I'll look forward to see any clarification regarding this.

[Hiten Bongz]

The6thMessenger, on 22 August 2018 - 02:28 PM, said:

Regardless, please do the forum a favor -- just this once -- and just fix Artemis to work like it was supposed to.

Seriously, because it's not fair to punish the other lock-on missiles just because "omg LRMs."

If it worked properly to begin with there would be no issues...to begin with.

[Tiy0s]

MechaBattler, on 22 August 2018 - 02:31 PM, said:

I'll chip in that in my experience Streaks aren't easy to use against lights. They require you to follow a light long enough to get a lock. It's hard to do in certain environment and even harder if your mech isn't agile enough to keep track. So it's seems unfair to punish Streaks just to make LRM users try harder for their lock.

I hope you understand how much is wrong with this. Juju's foot could track a flea with lights while his other foot would be pouring a bowl of cereal. But of course I shouldn't expect that from the average player anymore should I?

Edited by Tiy0s, 22 August 2018 - 03:13 PM.

[Password1234]

Commando522, on 21 August 2018 - 10:53 AM, said:

Nah i'm just saying you look like a drunk idiot regardless of your points being good or bad.

"enticing".

Wow you're being an *** like this because his English isn't up to your standards? How many languages are you comfortable going to online forums and commenting in?
If you don't understand, ask for clarification, not stooping to insults lke this when he's taken the time to learn another language.