144 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Lukoi Banacek, on 23 August 2018 - 10:46 AM, said:

My comment didn't need to refute Requiems comment at all, it stands on own.

But that was what my post was all about and which you replied to.

As such:

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 10:31 AM, said:

Unless of course your intent was just to pontificate.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2018 - 10:58 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

My reply to you was to clarify that the vast majority of players posting counter narrative comments are not in fact, anti-LRM.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Put a CERLL in with my 3 CERMLs on the 4xLRM20 SNV I have. I have Artemis, no TC, but do have BAP.

It took less time to get a lock than it took the CERMLs or the ERLL to finish their burn.

If someone is complaining that they can no longer get a lock fast enough to use LRMs with LOS then they have just exactly identified why LRMs are called a low/no skill weapon. Every single player using direct fire weapons that involve lasers or any Clan ballistics manages to do this every time they pull the trigger and successfully kill mechs and win matches - in fact they're better at it consistently (as the leaderboard shows) for winning matches than any LRM focused player has ever been in the history of MWO.

I absolutely understand that part of the draw of LRMs has always been that you really didn't need to get very good to use them. Well, be comforted, you still don't. You probably do need to be a tiny bit better than you were before.

Oh cruel world.

You missed the part about needing to keep the lock as the missiles travelled to target. LRMs are not fire-and-forget.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2018 - 11:02 AM.

[K O Z A K]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

You missed the part about needing to keep the lock as the missiles travelled to target. LRMs are not fire-and-forget.

You missed the part where lasers don't have a ppfld beacon that allows you to continue attacking your target without having a LOS

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

You missed the part about needing to keep the lock as the missiles travelled to target. LRMs are not fire-and-forget.

Yea for the entire duration of flight (or nearly so), just like the burn of lasers staying on target, or burst ac's. Seems fair.

That being said, dumbfiring is always a fun option.

[Mystere]

Hazeclaw, on 23 August 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

You missed the part where lasers don't have a ppfld beacon that allows you to continue attacking your target without having a LOS

MischiefSC's example did not involve NARC, TAG, UAV, or a teammate's lock. <smh>

[K O Z A K]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

MischiefSC's example did not involve NARC, TAG, UAV, or a teammate's lock. <smh>

yet all those are available during actual gameplay

[Mystere]

Lukoi Banacek, on 23 August 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

Yea for the entire duration of flight (or nearly so), just like the burn of lasers staying on target, or burst ac's. Seems fair.

It could be reasonably argued that things would be fairer if an entire missile firing cycle (aim >> lock >> fire >> contact) lasted no longer than the equivalent laser burn -- wider aiming requirements but spread damage for missiles vs. pinpoint accuracy but narrower aiming for lasers.

Of course, matching which missile weapon to pair against which laser is going to be a really fun balancing job.

But then again, the simplest solution is to just keep things as they are while boosting missile speeds, significantly.

Lukoi Banacek, on 23 August 2018 - 11:05 AM, said:

That being said, dumbfiring is always a fun option.

Except it's a rare player that actually does that on a regular basis.

Edited by Mystere, 23 August 2018 - 11:23 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 11:01 AM, said:

You missed the part about needing to keep the lock as the missiles travelled to target. LRMs are not fire-and-forget.

If you're 300m or so they functionally are now. Get all the velocity quirks.

People talk about seeing good players in LRM boats in game now but they don't actually pay attention to how they're playing.

Bitter irony.

Also, at 350m not only do you get a lock and shoot but almost all the LRMs from a Clan launcher with 0.5 second delay between 1st and 2nd shot are at the target before a CERLL has finished its burn.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2018 - 11:23 AM, said:

If you're 300m or so they functionally are now. Get all the velocity quirks.

People talk about seeing good players in LRM boats in game now but they don't actually pay attention to how they're playing.

Bitter irony.

Also, at 350m not only do you get a lock and shoot but almost all the LRMs from a Clan launcher with 0.5 second delay between 1st and 2nd shot are at the target before a CERLL has finished its burn.

See my post above yours regarding matching missile weapons to specific lasers.

[Mighty Spike]

x Deathstrike x, on 22 August 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

The tears of LRM bi... users are so sweet.

Oh yea they are, loove it.

[Sparky424]

What I cant figure out is why you don't like LRM's? Must be you can't deal with them!

[x Deathstrike x]

Sparky424, on 23 August 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

What I cant figure out is why you don't like LRM's? Must be you can't deal with them!

On the contrary, they are super easy to avoid (except on Polar).
LRMs are despised because they allow for very cowardly/parasitic gameplay while at the same time
providing nothing for the team. They inherently spread their damage all over an enemy mech instead of going into the important sections, i.e. torsos.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Eisenhorne, on 22 August 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

This attitude is why we have such a fundamental disconnect between players, I think. I think winning is fun. Finding the "best" way to play, the most effective builds, and the most effective strategies. There's significant wiggle room for different builds and strategies already in there, its not like there's a single dominant mech or strategy you have to go with. If I bring the most effective mechs, and you bring something you think is "fun" to play but has a low chance of winning, I do not have fun because I have to do significantly more work to have fun than you do, because I have to make up for your build's deficiencies. So naturally I seek out people who have similar attitudes to mine to form teams for faction play, and then we go up against random pugs with attitudes like yours, and in the end we have people saying faction play is no fun because they always lose....

Like your UAC20 - ALRM10 - ERLL example... that's a mad cat II build I think? Gauss + 2 ERLL + 2 ERML is significantly better at basically everything. So I'd need to play harder to make up for your mech being worse. Less fun for me.

This is the exact reason a functional match maker is mandatory. Players like you should never come into contact with players(potatos) that are fine bringing un-optimal mechs just to have fun piloting different mechs.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mystere's idea makes alot of sense as long as folks can lob lasers and ballistics from behind cover or around corners with someone else locking onto the target for them. Very apples to apples concept /s.

[Mystere]

Lukoi Banacek, on 23 August 2018 - 12:00 PM, said:

Mystere's idea makes alot of sense as long as folks can lob lasers and ballistics from behind cover or around corners with someone else locking onto the target for them. Very apples to apples concept /s.

Note I specifically wrote "missile weapons" as opposed to just "LRMs".

[Mighty Spike]

Sparky424, on 23 August 2018 - 11:51 AM, said:

What I cant figure out is why you don't like LRM's? Must be you can't deal with them!

oh really?? i survived every lurmagedon from CB on till now without any ams. What i really dont like is: wasted 100tons of tonnage with stupid builds and backstanding nubs who let other do the work . , just clicking stupidly on their mousebutton, hitting Teammates with their damn missiles, who beat enemys up in Brawl close..and get out of the match with ridicolous high dmg for just standing somewhere in the pampa using one finger. Its even to hard for these so "highskill" lurmers to take a look at the mini map if a friendly is engaged with the target.. they dont care.. like robots"must click button must click button..oh killed friendly...wayne must click button..."

Edited by Mighty Spike, 24 August 2018 - 03:03 AM.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Mystere, on 23 August 2018 - 12:07 PM, said:

Note I specifically wrote &quot;missile weapons&quot; as opposed to just &quot;LRMs&quot;.

Fair enough Myst!

[Jack Dawes]

MischiefSC, on 23 August 2018 - 10:51 AM, said:

Put a CERLL in with my 3 CERMLs on the 4xLRM20 SNV I have. I have Artemis, no TC, but do have BAP.

It took less time to get a lock than it took the CERMLs or the ERLL to finish their burn.

If someone is complaining that they can no longer get a lock fast enough to use LRMs with LOS then they have just exactly identified why LRMs are called a low/no skill weapon. Every single player using direct fire weapons that involve lasers or any Clan ballistics manages to do this every time they pull the trigger and successfully kill mechs and win matches - in fact they're better at it consistently (as the leaderboard shows) for winning matches than any LRM focused player has ever been in the history of MWO.

I absolutely understand that part of the draw of LRMs has always been that you really didn't need to get very good to use them. Well, be comforted, you still don't. You probably do need to be a tiny bit better than you were before.

Oh cruel world.

I am in now way trying to justify turrets. But there's a significant difference between "I see something and shoot it" and "I have to wait for a lock before I can shoot it." And, while your point about "...you really didn't need to bet very good...", if you played with good players, you sure as hell did. I have never played a turret. I have always played as a mobile asset, whether fire-suppression, cockpit shake, scouting (fire undirected missiles in a direction and see where AMS comes from) or damage dealing. Most of my kills came from lasers. If you'd like to make the point that either I have picked EZMODE or that I'm not an asset (without actually knowing me), I would be happy to entertain your criticism.

But nobody is impressed by your preening.

x Deathstrike x, on 23 August 2018 - 11:54 AM, said:

On the contrary, they are super easy to avoid (except on Polar).
LRMs are despised because they allow for very cowardly/parasitic gameplay while at the same time
providing nothing for the team. They inherently spread their damage all over an enemy mech instead of going into the important sections, i.e. torsos.

Do you play lights? If you do, do you wait until a larger mech is engaged before emptying into his back? If so, how are you less cowardly? Just curious.

[Asym]

OK, I've not played since the changes and don't have the inclination to mess with FP events.... That being said, what is the point of having skill tree nodes that improve targeting and "retain target identification and locks" only then to have the base weapons design and supporting systems parameters screwed with degrading the effects of the skill nodes??

If that is the case, what is the point of having a skill tree that allows for increased efficiency of those systems???

Am I missing what has been said?