198 replies to this topic

[Gloris]

"wah wah wah Piranha is fine l2p wah wah wah it's the good pilots wah wah wah"

Look at light like the Jenner and how pathetic they are in comparison and tell me to L2p all you want but it does not chance the fact that the balance is in a laughable state

[SeventhSL]

@OP

To understand why we got the PIR and the thought behind it you have to understand the history preceding it.

Before the PIR Clan didn’t have any 25t Mech which made it really hard for Clans to run Assults Mechs without gimping their dropdeck in someway. In contrast, IS was normally running a couple of assults because they had extra tonnage plus a 25t Mech to pad the fourth slot with. This isn’t a discussion of FW balance but an explanation as to why so many gamers started to ask for a 25t Clan Mech.

It then became about what 25t Mech we wanted. Lots of disscusion and polls but the PIR won popular support over the Fire Moth. I supported the Fire Moth even though it would have had a reduced speed. I knew it was sub par to the PIR but it would have been far more balanced for the game. Of course lots of other gamers knew how OP the PIR would be so it won popular support. PGI simply listened to the player and gave them what they asked for. It is no harder to understand than that.

[InspectorG]

Peace2U, on 18 September 2018 - 10:45 PM, said:

I always thought that a light mech was designed for scouting and harassing heavier opponents, not as a close range assassin.
With their crazy high D.P.S., they are the leading killers on the battlefield.

"Four Pillars" > 'Role Warfare'> 'Infotech' > Escort and the like.

State of the game.

As far as the little MG boat that could...

Maybe its the killer that it is because players dont sweep the leg or cover each other's backs by looking at the minmap.

I would say 'git gud' , but in the state of the game, just run a streak Bushwacker or Summoner or something.

[InspectorG]

Kalleballe, on 19 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

12 mg or hero is not a problem, now it is the 13 e one.

Oh, man. I miss my Light-Fu days...

[Tarl Cabot]

Issue with mass totting MG mechs is the extra damage crits hits generate, as well as the ability for a light to hug those balls without getting any nasty stuff on it. What ever token damage generated from collisions is that, token.

Thinking outside the box, one could firing be done in pulses, MG fires for X amount of time/ammo/cartridges then stops but keeping the trigger/button pressed down does not restart the firing and have a brief cooldown.

[Mcgral18]

xVLFBERHxT, on 19 September 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

Lights should be bad. They are entry level mechs.

QuePan, on 19 September 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

there is a easy solution for the PIR MG SPAM , make MGs do no damage to ARMOR that would probably help the DPS of MGS is just outta wack when you get to that many on one Chassis

Gloris, on 19 September 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

"wah wah wah Piranha is fine l2p wah wah wah it's the good pilots wah wah wah"

Look at light like the Jenner and how pathetic they are in comparison and tell me to L2p all you want but it does not chance the fact that the balance is in a laughable state

You are looking at it the wrong way
35 tonners used to be good
They were nerfed
And nerfed, and nerfed
Then some were quirked to be useful


The Piranha is useful with few quirks
That should be the standard.

[Y E O N N E]

SeventhSL, on 19 September 2018 - 03:42 PM, said:

@OP

To understand why we got the PIR and the thought behind it you have to understand the history preceding it.

Before the PIR Clan didn’t have any 25t Mech which made it really hard for Clans to run Assults Mechs without gimping their dropdeck in someway. In contrast, IS was normally running a couple of assults because they had extra tonnage plus a 25t Mech to pad the fourth slot with. This isn’t a discussion of FW balance but an explanation as to why so many gamers started to ask for a 25t Clan Mech.

It then became about what 25t Mech we wanted. Lots of disscusion and polls but the PIR won popular support over the Fire Moth. I supported the Fire Moth even though it would have had a reduced speed. I knew it was sub par to the PIR but it would have been far more balanced for the game. Of course lots of other gamers knew how OP the PIR would be so it won popular support. PGI simply listened to the player and gave them what they asked for. It is no harder to understand than that.

Piranha is 20 tons. Mist Lynx is 25 tons.

[UnofficialOperator]

The Pir gets more kills because it depends on the Assaults to strip away the CT armor on the enemy. Then it will just dive bomb and focus on the cored mech when it retreats. Bigger mechs are just unable to chase a cored mech which is retreating. The Pir still has a chance to run in and get the cored mech before it hides behind. It can do this because most people can't aim to hit the Pir.

[UnofficialOperator]

Kalleballe, on 19 September 2018 - 02:21 PM, said:

12 mg or hero is not a problem, now it is the 13 e one.

Still not as good as Pir 1. You see Juju is pretty careful. But Pir 1 can just dive right in.

PS: unless its for long games. But average 4 kills for Pir 1 (for the ammo it carries) is good enough.

Edited by UnofficialOperator, 19 September 2018 - 06:31 PM.

[SeventhSL]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 September 2018 - 05:45 PM, said:

Piranha is 20 tons. Mist Lynx is 25 tons.

Oh lol... I should not type tired. Thanks for the correction.

[Peace2U]

Thanks for all of the great reply's to this post.

I took the time to read all (so far), and tried to filter out the usual salt and off topic discussion (I do it myself, sometimes).

1. As far as my initial inquiry, the general consensus is that this 20 ton buzz saw was intentionally designed as a short range assassin, and not meant for typical scouting like other lights.
This is the reason for the ultra high DPS.
2. Also, according to several posts, this mech is only devastating if piloted by a highly skilled player since an average player cannot take advantage of the firepower and agility of this mech (Personally, I think this may be an exaggeration since I have rarely seen a Pir. not get the better of it's opponent).
3. I did not get any actual numbers, but discussion indicated that not only the kill ratio, but also the KMDD ratio is so high with the Pir., that players actually got tired of playing it due to the ease of kills and how it far out paced all of their other mech's stats.
(This re-enforces my previous thoughts that you don't have to be a star pilot to make this mech perform)
4. (Speculation) It is difficult to ignore the possibility that the developers may have set this "mini tornado of death" (yes, I coined the phrase - and someone needs to name their Piranha 'tasmanian devil') loose on the battlefield to provide an inexpensive mech for new players to be able to jump in and get some kills, therefore increasing both interest in the game and player base numbers.

Final Thoughts: If my observations are correct it would be akin to 'instant gratification', and believe it is a move in the wrong direction. To have a new player start off with a mech that provides such easy kills will only lead to disaster, since once they move on to a more conventional chassis, and can't get the numbers they started out with, I'm afraid many will become quickly disenchanted and leave the game. This will be bad, not only for the Developers, but also for the player base, as we want to see our numbers and enthusiasm for the game grow.

Again, I invite like-minded or counterpoint opinions, as I may not be seeing the 'whole picture' and would appreciate enlightenment.
Peace All

[Tarl Cabot]

Peace2U, on 19 September 2018 - 06:58 PM, said:

Thanks for all of the great reply's to this post.

I took the time to read all (so far), and tried to filter out the usual salt and off topic discussion (I do it myself, sometimes).

1. As far as my initial inquiry, the general consensus is that this 20 ton buzz saw was intentionally designed as a short range assassin, and not meant for typical scouting like other lights.
This is the reason for the ultra high DPS.

snip...

Peace All

You are definitely giving PGI way TOO much credit......

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

The Piranha's main threat is its twelve Series XII Rotary Machine Guns. These are a serious threat to any foe on such a speedy 'Mech, especially if a Star of Piranhas operate in a pack, and such a large array allows the 'Mech to chew through an opponent's rear armor almost instantly. They are most deadly, however, to unarmored infantry, capable of wiping out an entire company in seconds. For work against hardened targets, the Piranha mounts a pair of Mk. 3 ER Medium Lasers and a single Series 1 ER Small Laser. Since the design only uses ten single heat sinks, the MechWarrior must still manage heat levels. The ammunition dependency of the Machine Guns ensure that Piranhas must stay close to supply lines, so most have been relegated to solahma or garrison roles.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 19 September 2018 - 07:16 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

UnofficialOperator, on 19 September 2018 - 06:29 PM, said:

Still not as good as Pir 1. You see Juju is pretty careful. But Pir 1 can just dive right in.

PS: unless its for long games. But average 4 kills for Pir 1 (for the ammo it carries) is good enough.

He did dive in, about as much as one should have even with MGs. No reason for him to stay exposed when he can't fire.

TBQH, the laser one will be more versatile. The weapons payload is nearly identical in performance to the pre-nerf 6x cSPL. This is the laser-poke competitor the Clans needed, though I'd still give an edge to the Flea. It's a shame you need 10-13 hardpoints to get here (6x cSPL + 4x cERuL on the PIR-3 is pretty much the same). Also a shame that Clans now have an equivalent poke boat, but IS don't have an equivalent MG boat; the upcoming Loyalty Javelin will not be that unless it gets sizable MG RoF and energy Cooldown quirks.

[Moldur]

I came back a month ago after about a year and a half, and out of all the new changes (skill tree, weapons, etc.) the Piranha is the biggest shake up lol.

That is as close to an unclouded, virgin opinion as you can get. The rest of the changes and weapons can practically be ignored and are mere tweaks to how this stale game has been for years.

An enemy Piranha, on the other hand, is single-handedly an existential threat to your team in every single round. God forbid there are 2 or 3 or even more. There have been powerful lights like the pre-nerf/rescale ACH, firestarter, srm boat Jenner IIC, 3L, and Huggin, but never has it been such a high priority to focus fire a light mech like it is with the Piranha. This isn't just post release queue flooding either. The Piranha really is a tiny god of the battlefield.

[JP Josh]

Moldur, on 19 September 2018 - 10:12 PM, said:

I came back a month ago after about a year and a half, and out of all the new changes (skill tree, weapons, etc.) the Piranha is the biggest shake up lol.

That is as close to an unclouded, virgin opinion as you can get. The rest of the changes and weapons can practically be ignored and are mere tweaks to how this stale game has been for years.

An enemy Piranha, on the other hand, is single-handedly an existential threat to your team in every single round. God forbid there are 2 or 3 or even more. There have been powerful lights like the pre-nerf/rescale ACH, firestarter, srm boat Jenner IIC, 3L, and Huggin, but never has it been such a high priority to focus fire a light mech like it is with the Piranha. This isn't just post release queue flooding either. The Piranha really is a tiny god of the battlefield.

you havnt came across a 4 med laser 1 mg locust ecmd have you?

[Darth Hotz]

I consider myself as an average light pilot. However, with the PIR, I reach damage levels of 600-800 regularly. I wasnt able to get regular results like this in any other light mech.

So, is it really the pilot then?

[Radbacker]

I died and did 1 damage in mine yesterday, do not stand still in one of these things (I was trying to line up an Arty strike) but I've had quite A few games were it has just wrecked house (400+ damage 2-4 kills). I'm no light pilot but it is by far my best performing light in my stable but as others have said if you meet someone in a Streakboat or someone who can aim you're toast

[A Headless Chicken]

guise pls help mi is piranha good mech?

[B L O O D W I T C H]

Mcgral18, on 19 September 2018 - 04:45 PM, said:

ohlordmysides

Gloris, on 19 September 2018 - 03:23 PM, said:

Look at light like the Jenner and how pathetic they are in comparison and tell me to L2p all you want but it does not chance the fact that the balance is in a laughable state

You just had to pick the jenner, right? Not K9, not flea-17, not javelin or woulfhound. Nooo you legit have had to pick jenners out of all lights.
But okay, let's just roll with it aaaaaaaaand

Spoiler

get yourself an oxide and l2p.

[Shifty McSwift]

What weirds me out is the variation in weapon loadout potential growing exponentially at smaller classes. It only makes sense from the perspective of balancing, and even then the fact I can deck out a clan medium with the equivalent damage volley of most IS assaults... Is just... Weird.