169 replies to this topic

[Jack Dawes]

dario03, on 22 September 2018 - 08:54 AM, said:

I find it much easier to carry in qp with a Mad Cat MKII than a Piranha. Sure you can get a good score with the Piranha but you can do even more damage with the MKII. You have the range to stay with your team and still hurt the enemy most of the time, the dps to rip mechs apart from the front, the ammo and heat eff to stay in the fight, and the armor to take hits (lot less likely to get completely messed up by a single volley from a dual gauss or streak boat).

Now, if we could only get you fat boys to actually push...

[General Solo]

@OP

I play lots of assualt mechs and kill light mechs all day long so I'm not biased
I actually like it when a light trys to rear end me coz I'm the one who turns around and yells SUPRISE YOU INSECT, SPLAT!!!!!!
I definitely can't say the same thing when I pilot a light, coz Im bad at them doh I still try.

Many people that have trouble aiming are assault pilots
Many people that have trouble piloting are assault pilots
That is not the light mechs fault

Crappy hitreg yeah ok maybe some lights are breaking the game engine a bit, mostly the commando
though still not op

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 23 September 2018 - 01:27 PM.

[Lykaon]

well,from a military doctrine standpoint "light" mechs are assault troops.

"Shock troops or assault troops are formations created to lead an attack...Military units which contain assault troops are typically organized for mobility with the intention that they will penetrate enemy defences and attack into the enemy's vulnerable rear areas."

( Sourced quote from wikipedia "shock troops")

[Shifty McSwift]

Lykaon, on 23 September 2018 - 07:02 PM, said:

well,from a military doctrine standpoint "light" mechs are assault troops.

"Shock troops or assault troops are formations created to lead an attack...Military units which contain assault troops are typically organized for mobility with the intention that they will penetrate enemy defences and attack into the enemy's vulnerable rear areas."

( Sourced quote from wikipedia "shock troops")

Shock troops were invented during trench warfare and what became "rules" about what trench warfare meant. It wasn't so much about the "armor" or weight they took with them, it was about the crazy as balls attitude of breaching trenchlines and getting into CQC with a small squad that could in actuality completely break what had been an impassable trenchline/battlefront.

Shock as in "holy **** how did enmy troops get in my trench!" too late, shotgun blast, etc.

[Eisenhorne]

OP is wrong.

Assaults are the best class. Anyone who disagrees with me is flat out bad at this game.

[Vellron2005]

I generally agree with OP.. Lights are, at least in my humble opinion, far more deadly than opfor Assaults..

I melt an Atlas, Kingcrab, hell, even a Fafnir, relatively quickly, but a single Piranha, Osiris, or even a Wolfhound will be the death of me..

I've also seen Urbanmechs take on multiple mechs, assaults included, and survive..

How is that ok?

[Eisenhorne]

Vellron2005, on 23 September 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

I generally agree with OP.. Lights are, at least in my humble opinion, far more deadly than opfor Assaults..

I melt an Atlas, Kingcrab, hell, even a Fafnir, relatively quickly, but a single Piranha, Osiris, or even a Wolfhound will be the death of me..

I've also seen Urbanmechs take on multiple mechs, assaults included, and survive..

How is that ok?

Because the assault pilots were obviously bad and deserved to lose. Most bad players pick assaults because they have bigger guns.

And you melt assaults faster because its easier to lock them with lurms, lol.

[50 50]

LordNothing, on 22 September 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

and assaults are just support mechs.

so when you loose your support mech (assault) to an assault mech (lights), everything makes sense.

I was really pleased when my medium mech became my new light scout mech and my heavy mech became my medium assault escort mech.
So when going into the battlefield and wanting to fill the right role it was all so much clearer.
Luckily when picking a heavy medium for a light roll to tank it like a true assault it didn't make any difference in the quick play solo queue.

[TheMysteriousGX]

Vellron2005, on 23 September 2018 - 11:11 PM, said:

I've also seen Urbanmechs take on multiple mechs, assaults included, and survive..

How is that ok?

As a newly returning MWO player and a 15 year Urbanmech apologist, I'm gonna let you in on a dirty secret:

A thirty ton mech is a thirty ton mech. If you strip out a Spider's engine and bolt iit into an Urbie, you get a Spider shaped like a garbage can that can torso twist 360 degrees.

With the Pirahna, we're just running into the problem with trying to balance an action game with a hex-grid table top game stat sheet where mechs can't get within 30m of each other, an MG has a maximum range of the PPCs minimum range, and an assault mech can kick a light mech's legs off. Harder proposition.

[Horseman]

Eisenhorne, on 23 September 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

Because the assault pilots were obviously bad and deserved to lose. Most bad players pick assaults because they have bigger guns.

An muh armar!

Quote

And you melt assaults faster because its easier to lock them with lurms, lol.

Let's be fair, if they were overconfident enough to get in a position where he could do that with impunity, they deserved what they got.

Once ago, an enemy DWF told me he feared no lurms. And then promptly had half his mech chewed off by a rain of what was effectively LRM120. Those AWS-8R quirks were sick.

Edited by Horseman, 24 September 2018 - 12:17 AM.

[LordNothing]

50 50, on 23 September 2018 - 11:20 PM, said:

I was really pleased when my medium mech became my new light scout mech and my heavy mech became my medium assault escort mech.
So when going into the battlefield and wanting to fill the right role it was all so much clearer.
Luckily when picking a heavy medium for a light roll to tank it like a true assault it didn't make any difference in the quick play solo queue.

we got weight classes shoehorned into roles they were never meant for. thing is these roles were designed for actual combat, not arena combat which is what we have in this game. on a real battlefield where you do not know where the enemy are coming from scouting becomes very important. and where you have to lay seige to hardened enemy positions assault mechs have a point as well. this is why the best performers are the middle ground meds and heavies (and also why i play lights and assaults, i like a challenge). sure i could rack points all day on my bushies and whammies, but thats just easy mode to me. we would need mission oriented gameplay for the weight classes to be better defined.

living legends does a better job and bringing out the mech roles a little bit better, but they have bigger maps, deeper electronic warfare, and a strong requirement for map control. its still technically an arena shooter but it does make things more battle-like. and so you have c3 scouts everywhere coordinating the battle and assault lances that actually have assaulting to do. it beats circular tail chasing any day and probibly why we have so much nascar, that just doesnt happen in mwll. lights have better things to do than chase assaults, and they get rewarded for them, and assaults have better things to do than to hide in cover and avoid dieing.

Edited by LordNothing, 24 September 2018 - 07:57 AM.

[kf envy]

LordNothing, on 22 September 2018 - 03:50 AM, said:

and assaults are just support mechs.

so when you loose your support mech (assault) to an assault mech (lights), everything makes sense.

your just now seeing this. this was well known back in the beta

[Mechwarrior1441491]

Game has gone from the slower more methodical game play which btech is supposed to be, to fast paced, catch me if you can if I don't core you from behind.

[Eisenhorne]

Mechwarrior1441491, on 24 September 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

Game has gone from the slower more methodical game play which btech is supposed to be, to fast paced, catch me if you can if I don't core you from behind.

Only when assault pilots can't hit their shots. A good assault or heavy pilot will gut a light pilot relatively quickly. Higher level play can still be very methodical and slow, but you'll never see it in quick play because nobody there can ever aim straight. Quick play is literally always going to be bottom of the barrel garbage tier pugs, with a few guys who can actually aim sprinkled in.

[Jack Dawes]

Eisenhorne, on 23 September 2018 - 11:13 PM, said:

Because the assault pilots were obviously bad and deserved to lose. Most bad players pick assaults because they have bigger guns.

And you melt assaults faster because its easier to lock them with lurms, lol.

Same argument as when Clan came out. "We just have better pilots", "all the best pilots play Clan", "hate the pilot, not the mech."

In other words, everyone's experience is invalidated because arguments.

And quick play is where most players live.

[Xulld]

It's not even all lights. It is a blend of speed and firepower that makes them the most powerful unit and just watching popular twitch channels you can see why. They offer the most value for skilled players.

[Eisenhorne]

Jack Dawes, on 24 September 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

Same argument as when Clan came out. "We just have better pilots", "all the best pilots play Clan", "hate the pilot, not the mech."

In other words, everyone's experience is invalidated because arguments.

And quick play is where most players live.

Clan mechs are completely different, they were (on release) empirically better in every way. This is no longer the case, and has nothing to do with lights vs assaults.

I'm not saying your experiences are invalid, just that a skilled assault pilot wouldn't have the problems you're having. You should work on aiming better, or bringing mechs that can handle lights better. Don't bring PPC / LRM / ATM boats or whatever and then complain lights are OP... because obviously they hard counter you. Don't worry so much about your weight class and what it "should" beat, but be realistic about what it does.

Xulld, on 24 September 2018 - 09:59 AM, said:

It's not even all lights. It is a blend of speed and firepower that makes them the most powerful unit and just watching popular twitch channels you can see why. They offer the most value for skilled players.

Name me a single top-tier player in this game who is better in lights than assault mechs...

Edited by Eisenhorne, 24 September 2018 - 10:05 AM.

[Jack Dawes]

Eisenhorne, on 24 September 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Clan mechs are completely different, they were (on release) empirically better in every way. This is no longer the case, and has nothing to do with lights vs assaults.

I'm not saying your experiences are invalid, just that a skilled assault pilot wouldn't have the problems you're having. You should work on aiming better, or bringing mechs that can handle lights better. Don't bring PPC / LRM / ATM boats or whatever and then complain lights are OP... because obviously they hard counter you. Don't worry so much about your weight class and what it "should" beat, but be realistic about what it does.




Name me a single top-tier player in this game who is better in lights than assault mechs...

Since you seem to want to build strawmen, let me burn one down for you. The SAME guys that said "Clan aren't better, players who play Clan are" are the same guys that seem to want to keep the superiority of certain OP mechs now.

That was a comparison. A way of showing similarities in arguements. And I don't give a **** about top tier players and their preferences.

My statement stands: most players are in QP. They are not "top-tier" and it makes no difference if they are.

So, if an assault is to deal with lights, he should completely compromise his build. Name me another class of mech in the game whose only real hope of survival depends on a compromised build. Just one. And, for the sake of argument, let's assume for the purposes of this argument that the pilots are T5. The worst. Is it your position that they have no reason to play the game and should just get out of the way?

The same guys that say stupidities like "well just build for it" are the guys that criticize builds for being "bad" because they don't boat. You can't have it both ways. And sophistry in the face of reality just makes your arguments weaker.

Edited by Jack Dawes, 24 September 2018 - 10:14 AM.

[Eisenhorne]

Jack Dawes, on 24 September 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

Since you seem to want to build strawmen, let me burn one down for you. The SAME guys that said "Clan aren't better, players who play Clan are" are the same guys that seem to want to keep the superiority of certain OP mechs now.

That was a comparison. A way of showing similarities in arguements. And I don't give a **** about top tier players and their preferences.

And I don't give a **** about potato tier garbage players. They can git gud or enjoy being farmed.

Jack Dawes, on 24 September 2018 - 10:13 AM, said:

My statement stands: most players are in QP. They are not "top-tier" and it makes no difference if they are.

So, if an assault is to deal with lights, he should completely compromise his build. Name me another class of mech in the game whose only real hope of survival depends on a compromised build. Just one. And, for the sake of argument, let's assume for the purposes of this argument that the pilots are T5. The worst. Is it your position that they have no reason to play the game and should just get out of the way?

The same guys that say stupidities like "well just build for it" are the guys that criticize builds for being "bad" because they don't boat. You can't have it both ways. And sophistry in the face of reality just makes your arguments weaker.

You don't have to "build for it" you just need to be aware of it. You flat out should never bring certain weapons to quick play, because they are only useful in specific situations. You should never bring LRM's or ATM's to quick play. I don't care if most players are there, the weapons are fundamentally designed in such a way they are useless without a good map and without good teamwork. You can't guarantee that in QP, so just don't take them. Any assault mech with ballistics or pulse lasers can kill a light mech dead, easy.

The unfortunate reality is that many assault mechs are garbage tier, and should just never be brought to any situation. A Nightstar will have real trouble with many light mechs because it's a steaming pile of garbage mech, not because assaults are underpowered. The same is true of light mechs, but the people complaining about lights don't seem to care about them. For what it's worth, I'm primarily an assault mech user myself. I just don't have issues killing lights. They're already pretty easy to kill. Make it any easier, and they're basically useless.

Edited by Eisenhorne, 24 September 2018 - 10:20 AM.

[Xulld]

Eisenhorne, on 24 September 2018 - 10:04 AM, said:

Clan mechs are completely different, they were (on release) empirically better in every way. This is no longer the case, and has nothing to do with lights vs assaults.

I'm not saying your experiences are invalid, just that a skilled assault pilot wouldn't have the problems you're having. You should work on aiming better, or bringing mechs that can handle lights better. Don't bring PPC / LRM / ATM boats or whatever and then complain lights are OP... because obviously they hard counter you. Don't worry so much about your weight class and what it "should" beat, but be realistic about what it does.




Name me a single top-tier player in this game who is better in lights than assault mechs...

Why would I do that? Do you think that would prove something? Lights cost less in every way logistically and with ghost heat Assaults cannot even use all that firepower. Ton for ton lights are by FAR the best mech because of all the heat and hard point nerfs.

My Warhawk has only 5 more points of alpha on my Piranha. Something wrong here folks.

This is the first MW title that has had lights this powerful. IMHO lights should just be removed entirely. Maybe a heavy metal game mode.... all I would play.

Edited by Xulld, 24 September 2018 - 10:28 AM.