63 replies to this topic

[The Lighthouse]

I am so tired of seeing these nonsense nerfs and terrible ideas.


Let's forget about faction distinction; after all it is such a terrible idea from the first place.


So far, the whole idea has been Clan = good at long range and Is = good at short range. This only caused contradictions. Like, there are Clan brawling mechs, and there are IS long-range mechs. Such attempt to make Clan and IS different was doomed to fail, only making outliers and cause balance troubles.



Mechs themselves are always have been what make different playstyles, not stupid factions.


The fear of a lot of weapons would never be used if we introduce mixtech is both unfounded and needless. We already have tons of weapons and stuffs never used, like Clan normal ACs, bunch of small lasers, standard engines except heavy gauss and very few niche builds, and finally IS XL engines except light mechs and few cases.

We can always make stuffs different from each other, and with mixtech we don't have to worry about one faction becoming stronger than other faction because there will be no more factions.



Start from clean; remove quirks from all mechs. Let everyone uses whatever they want, then balance around mechs themselves, not other way around. With this, we can actually put quirks based on individual mechs' performances, eliminating the need to think about the whole faction balance.



After all, if you paid some attention to how PGI has been balancing this game, the pattern is extremely obvious:



1) Some outlier causing problems. Example : KDK-3, Night Gyr, Deathstrike, etc.
2) PGI responds with nerfing the whole weapon system that is used by said mechs above.
3) While it does help klling those outliers, it also creates yet another sets of massive imbalance.
4) Then PGI does same thing, and the cycle continues.

It is obvious PGI does understand those mechs causing problem, yet the solution has been changing whole weapon system, in name of making "faction" different. And everyone suffers.


We can stop this now.




PS : And unlike all of these crazy ideas to balance 'factions' from both players and PGI so far, mixtech is fully compatible with Lore/TT, if you care about those things.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 27 June 2018 - 08:16 PM.

[Cyzxxikz]

I've always loved mixtech, there's clan stuff I want on my IS mechs and IS stuff I want on my clan mechs, just make fitting mixtech cost some extra cbills

[Battlemaster56]

No, simply everyone gonna use clan tech on all their mechs no matter what, and destroy what distinction between the two factions.

Just simply going mixtech you better off just having clan tech in this game, no IS tech. We either push for better balancing practice frim Pgi, or deal with what we got.

[The Lighthouse]

Battlemaster56, on 27 June 2018 - 02:54 PM, said:

No, simply everyone gonna use clan tech on all their mechs no matter what, and destroy what distinction between the two factions.

Just simply going mixtech you better off just having clan tech in this game, no IS tech. We either push for better balancing practice frim Pgi, or deal with what we got.

Which I said....

Quote

The fear of a lot of weapons would never be used if we introduce mixtech is both unfounded and needless. We already have tons of weapons and stuffs never used, like Clan normal ACs, bunch of small lasers, standard engines except heavy gauss and very few niche builds, and finally IS XL engines except light mechs and few cases.

We can always make stuffs different from each other, and with mixtech we don't have to worry about one faction becoming stronger than other faction because there will be no more factions.

That said, some IS weapons, such as normal medium lasers, would be godsend to quite a lot of Clan mechs. Like Nova, pretty much all of Clan light mechs, Gargoyle, etc.


And also I said previously, but please, screw distinction. It should be mechs making distinction, not factions.

[Scout Derek]

Don't think it'd work well - as then Standard Engines for Spheres and their XLs, as well as LFE engines would become obselete.

LRMs? Sphere? Void. Old. Small lasers? gone. Machine guns? dead.

[The6thMessenger]

Well, there's still the IS tech discrepancy, only it wasn't dealt with but done away with. If the quirks were kept, now we got overquirked "clan" mechs.

Weapon performance aside, we're looking at completely lighter and smaller weapons for the Clan, where the IS mechs are burdened by heavier and larger weapons.

That CAC argument is stupid, just because CAC is worthless and exists in the game doesn't mean we were okay with it, it's not "unfounded" or "needless". Hell we're even advocating it to be worth something and not just some place holder. You might as well argue that thousands of people jump to their deaths from a bridge, so you should too.

[The Lighthouse]

Scout Derek, on 27 June 2018 - 03:05 PM, said:

Don't think it'd work well - as then Standard Engines for Spheres and their XLs, as well as LFE engines would become obselete.

LRMs? Sphere? Void. Old. Small lasers? gone. Machine guns? dead.

Almost nobody uses Standard Engine, both IS and Clan, anyway, in the first place.

And IS XL engines were already mostly dead thanks to LFE. With exception of IS light mechs I think only 2~3 mechs using IS XL engine, from 400+ mechs I have.

If you still worry about things getting obsolete, we can always make them different. Like giving IS XL massive agility boost to mechs Standard Engine getting massive heat generation quirks. And we can do this without worrying about faction balance.

[BrunoSSace]

It be nice but I would feel dirty using Clan tech. Imagine an Atlas using a 400 Clan Xl. Omg it would be beautiful.

[Grus]

Yeah no...

[The Lighthouse]

The6thMessenger, on 27 June 2018 - 03:07 PM, said:

Well, there's still the IS tech discrepancy, only it wasn't dealt with but done away with. If the quirks were kept, now we got overquirked "clan" mechs.

Weapon performance aside, we're looking at completely lighter and smaller weapons for the Clan, where the IS mechs are burdened by heavier and larger weapons.

That CAC argument is stupid, just because CAC is worthless and exists in the game doesn't mean we were okay with it, it's not "unfounded" or "needless". Hell we're even advocating it to be worth something and not just some place holder. You might as well argue that thousands of people jump to their deaths from a bridge, so you should too.

Yes, that's why I said...

Quote

Start from clean. Let everyone uses whatever they want, then balance around mechs themselves, not other way around. With this, we can actually put quirks based on individual mechs' performances, eliminating the need to think about the whole faction balance.

So all mechs start without any quirks, see how they perform, then put quirks based on each mechs' performance. So terrible mechs such as Vindicator will have more quirks than other mechs. Difference is that now mechs like Cougar would have proper quirks which was denied by the fact it is a Clan mech.

And no, it is not stupid. It is not just CAC are worthless. We have a lot of weapons and equipment are worthless already. And there is no way we can make them ALL viable.

I mean, like we are completely ignoring one entire weapon class called LRMs. Even changing into mixtech won't make much difference regarding obsolete weapons because we already have plenty of them, and actually mixtech will both create both new viable and obsolete weapons.

However, at least we can fix mech balances and overall weapon type balances if we kill 'faction distinction' restrictions. Merely going mixtech won't solve all problems and may cause new problems, but it will solve the most severe problems.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 27 June 2018 - 03:18 PM.

[HammerMaster]

No. It caters to powercreep.

[The Lighthouse]

HammerMaster, on 27 June 2018 - 05:29 PM, said:

No. It caters to powercreep.

we had negative powercreep for more than 2 years now.

[LordNothing]

weapons across tech bases just arent distinct enough from each other. you are just going to have a bunch of weapons get obsoleted because the clan version is better.

[justcallme A S H]

Bad enough Groups into SoloQ is regular... But this one too?

[The Lighthouse]

justcallme A S H, on 27 June 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Bad enough Groups into SoloQ is regular... But this one too?

Yes, we must have these threads. Actually, we have not had mixtech thread for a very long time.

I mean, it is not like introducing mixtech is going to destroy game like Groups into SoloQ would do. At worst possible outcome a lot of IS weapons (and a few Clan ones) would be obsolete but that would be about it.

I believe this is certainly better than current PGI's attempt to balance out factions, like they are doing right now.

[justcallme A S H]

Yeah IS heavily quirked mechs now running c-XL engines and Clan Weapons...

Like the game isn't impossible to balance now

[Spheroid]

No

[Mystere]

I have more "radical" ideas:

• forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, IS vs. Clan drops only (i.e. no mixed teams)
  
• lore-friendly Clans and IS formations
  
• drop sizes tailored to battle at hand
  
• dump all eSports attributes outside of Solaris (i.e. we have "battles", not "matches")
  
• Clan equipment are tailored for the individual warrior, IS ones are tailored to enhance teamwork
  
• etc., etc., etc.

Edited by Mystere, 27 June 2018 - 07:54 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

Mystere, on 27 June 2018 - 07:54 PM, said:

I have more "radical" ideas:

• forced IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, IS vs. Clan drops only (i.e. no mixed teams)
  
• lore-friendly Clans and IS formations
  
• drop sizes tailored to battle at hand
  
• dump all eSports attributes outside of Solaris (i.e. we have "battles", not "matches")
  
• Clan equipment are tailored for the individual warrior, IS ones are tailored to enhance teamwork
  
• etc., etc., etc.

So foreplay.

/s

Edited by Battlemaster56, 27 June 2018 - 08:05 PM.

[KoalaBrownie]

You mean make the game one big bowl of stew? Yeah no thanks.
If PGI wanted to make mix-tech hero mechs, like an IS chassis, components & engine with clan weapons I wouldn't object.