157 replies to this topic

[PobbestGob]

Armored Yokai, on 30 October 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Leg humping is a broken and unsavory mechanic
You are in an Annihilator. You and only a piranha remain. The Piranha loses most of it's torso to a well hit AC shot. Piranha runs to your leg and you can no longer aim at it because your arms have been blown off but you still have every torso gun. Mgun Creature then laughs because you stood no chance like an lrm boat.

this is a very specific scenario. simple answer is you lose. lights are meant to punish lone assaults. if you're the last one left in one versus a light mech and you die, that's an assault counter that is working by design. stepping into the game that annihilator had plenty of advantages, the fact that the whole team died and the anni lost its arms and the piranha is still healthy enough to take a shot and have its weapons left and it got close to the anni before the assault could kill it is just asking for the loss, that's a stacked deck that's working as it's supposed to.

[MischiefSC]

The Urbanmech is essentially a chibi-Atlas.

Use height shift in terrain to get guns on a light.

That is all.

Edited by MischiefSC, 31 October 2018 - 06:50 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Agreed with OP, minimising it to prevent certain "abuse" has made other "abuse" more regular.

At the very least the damage needs a boost, it is way too small.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[Nightbird]

El Bandito, on 30 October 2018 - 11:01 PM, said:

Except a Warhammer has better torso pitch than an Atlas, especially when pointing downwards (25° vs. 16°) so the chassis difference will still matter with torsi mounted weapons.

Not really, the warhammer's chest weapons is at head height of a piranha, pitching down is moot.

[Gristle Missile]

If you pilot an annihilator, you can not see a commando humping your legs at all, thanks to the high cockpit. Even worse if its stealth. It can literally just hug the leg and SRM them off slowly and you wont even know whats attacking you.
Pretty annoying to be unable to do anything and the team usually doesn't help because they are busy nascaring or are blind/deaf

Edited by Gristle Missile, 31 October 2018 - 07:30 AM.

[Tarogato]

Armored Yokai, on 30 October 2018 - 02:47 PM, said:

Leg humping is a broken and unsavory mechanic that allows small size to abuse another person, Leg humping players that impact the opponents leg should take 5-25 damage depending on the mech size to prevent lights from easily crushing an assault.

This is one of the worst imaginable suggestions, because two mechs do not need to come into actual physical contact for "leg humping" to occur.

It will only stop bads from abusing the over-scaling of assault mechs. Good pilots will be unaffected, because they can maneuver to stay underneath or behind an assault without actually contacting it. The behaviour won't change and the complaining won't stop.


If you think lights are unfairly overpowered, then you should be petitioning for the heavier weightclasses to be scaled down in size, and receive torso pitch buffs. You should also be playing more lights, because generally leghumping is a suicide mission. You ruin one assault's day, but you rarely get out alive. It's not even worth the risk.


Do keep in mind that assaults are the top of the food chain. They have the most firepower and armour. They need a counter. Lights are exactly that counter which keeps them in check.

[Jables McBarty]

Been a lot of great responses to this thread in general, but I did want to address this bit:

Armored Yokai, on 30 October 2018 - 03:02 PM, said:

Play solaris div 2 and you will see what I mean.
You build your best only to lose to a light that leg humps, I bet if you played in division 1 with a Pirate's Bane or Piranha you will get to top 10 within a few games.

I know what you mean b/c I had a PIR tear through my Bounty Hunter's legs twice. Same guy, two matches in a row, and the first one I forgot to hit override and missed a chance at a killshot; second time I had override engaged but I lost handily.

The third time though...

Just back your *** into a corner. There are two right where you start, to the left and right of you, in the elevator bay that you just came out of. When Duncan shows you that you are fighting a light, get in the corner, don't move, make them come to you. Then when they show their little faces, burn them.

Will this work with all 'mechs? No. But you pay a price for putting all your weapons in the torso. You're tankier, and you save weight on armor, but you are sacrificing that mobility. If you don't have arms, you can't shoot UAVs either...does that mean they should be nerfed too?

[Shadowomega1]

They could change collision damage base on weight of the mechs so a light that figures he can leg hump an assault gets a rude awakening when a leg comes forward and suddenly they take 50 damage split between the impacted area, for each time that leg hit them. Would also be useful for making DFA's viable without knock down.

[Gristle Missile]

Shadowomega1, on 31 October 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

They could change collision damage base on weight of the mechs so a light that figures he can leg hump an assault gets a rude awakening when a leg comes forward and suddenly they take 50 damage split between the impacted area, for each time that leg hit them. Would also be useful for making DFA's viable without knock down.

that sounds swell until a friendly locust steps in front of you and you just crush it

[ShiverMeRivets]

Shadowomega1, on 31 October 2018 - 09:09 AM, said:

They could change collision damage base on weight of the mechs so a light that figures he can leg hump an assault gets a rude awakening when a leg comes forward and suddenly they take 50 damage split between the impacted area, for each time that leg hit them. Would also be useful for making DFA's viable without knock down.

There you go, how it should work. Beyond being invisible, it is super ridiculous that a 20 ton mech can physically stop the forward/backward movement of a monster 5 times its weight, by colliding with its legs.

Also, It is not only 20 tonners that leg hump. Any small mech that stands in the way of a much larger mech and gets stepped on should take damage. This includes all kind of RAC players that charge until they collide with you, stop you in your tracks, and then keep their high DPS weapon attached to your torso while blinding you. Yes I am looking at you Bushwhacker!

[Grus]

Punish bad play! Oh.. that's why i bought a PIR..

[Drenath]

Batista Bomb?

[GoatHILL]

Gristle Missile, on 31 October 2018 - 09:39 AM, said:

that sounds swell until a friendly locust steps in front of you and you just crush it

Learn to drive.

My biggest problem when they took knock downs out of the wasn't no more knock downs it was that everyone just started walking over/through eachother.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[MechaBattler]

If it's possible for them to code in extra damage based on enemy size. I don't see why not. It's logical that a light bumping into an assault would not only be damaged, but trampled. So I think extra damage isn't too much to ask for. Though nothing on the level of damage OP is talking about. 25 damage? Wutt. No. Something more like 3 against mediums, 5 against heavies, and 8 against assaults. Leg armor is like currency for lights. Losing 8 armor per collision with an assault is going to be noticeable.

[Spheroid]

M-pods are canonically available in the current timeline. The question though is how you would code it. Either it would resemble a 360 degree LBX effect with a 30 meter optimum or it would have to borrow the AMS tracking logic with mechs substituted for missiles. The duration would be instant and the ammo count would be one. To function it would need to be manual fire as well.

The problem with using unmodified AMS code is there is a height component to the engagement algorithm regarding missiles which would need revision.

Another possible way to implement it is combining AMS auto-tracking with the random hit location mechanic of streaks. The 15 points of damage would be assigned randomly minus the head in one point imcrements as if they were LBX pellets.

Edited by Spheroid, 31 October 2018 - 11:54 AM.

[Shadowomega1]

MechaBattler, on 31 October 2018 - 11:36 AM, said:

If it's possible for them to code in extra damage based on enemy size. I don't see why not. It's logical that a light bumping into an assault would not only be damaged, but trampled. So I think extra damage isn't too much to ask for. Though nothing on the level of damage OP is talking about. 25 damage? Wutt. No. Something more like 3 against mediums, 5 against heavies, and 8 against assaults. Leg armor is like currency for lights. Losing 8 armor per collision with an assault is going to be noticeable.

Actually 50 damage divided over the sections hit would actually be reasonable as the Table top the rule is 1 damage for every 5 tons of the mechs weight. This would be a little low for MWO as we have Double Armor and Double Internal values compared to the table top. In table top and Atlas would do 20 damage on a kick if we did double that for the games armor values that is 40 damage. To avoid going with 3 damage per 5 tons going 2.5 damage per 5 tons would make sense for a game with double armor and double internal values.

From rereading the DFA rules and updating them to MWO values My Highlander IIC would pancake a MWO Timberwolf.

Edited by Shadowomega1, 31 October 2018 - 12:00 PM.

[Throe]

[deleted by user]

Edited by Throe, 08 November 2018 - 02:55 PM.

[MechaBattler]

I really doubt they'll go down to tonnage difference. I doubt we'll convince them to change it at all if I'm perfectly honest. The less complicated the request, the more likely they are to try it. But since their focus is MW5, I doubt we'd even get a small change.