113 replies to this topic

[Xeno Phalcon]

Dogstar, on 20 November 2018 - 08:53 AM, said:

I suggest you don't come anywhere near this game after the Charger release...!

[Khobai]

H I A S, on 19 November 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

Sure, PvP is allways competitive.Farmville isnt PvP. Freaking brown sea.

lmao again PVP is not always competitive.

competitive means you have a fierce aggressive desire to win or be the best at something. that does not adequately describe most people who play MWO. Most people who play MWO dont care about winning or being the best at it. maybe like 1% of people who play MWO are competitive. but the vast majority are not.

you are simply wrong.

plenty of games have PVP but arnt competitive about it. MWO is mostly casual PVP. Some people play it competitively but theyre the so-called 99%ers and theyre completely out of touch with the rest of the community. Thats why their terrible balance proposal got completely rejected when they tried to bring back x3 PPC/Gauss poptarting among other things. the community didnt want the game to be more competitive. And here you are again trying to force your competitive ideals on the MWO community and once again your boat is full of holes and drowning in the brown sea.

H I A S, on 19 November 2018 - 02:42 AM, said:

Farmville isnt PvP

Of course it is. people who play farmville arnt playing it solo. Its a social game; theyre playing it to outdo their friends. But its hardly competitive since most people dont really take it seriously. Its mostly played by the same type of people that try to win at facebook by collecting the most friends. Any game can be considered PVP if you have two or more people trying to "win" at it, even if the definition of winning is entirely subjective. But its certainly not competitive since most people arnt aggressively trying to be the best at farmville. Same with MWO, most people who play MWO are not competitive. Thats a fact.

Edited by Khobai, 20 November 2018 - 03:13 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Tiewolf, on 20 November 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

Spoiler

Players like you force potatoes to embrace your definition of "fun" or stop playing. It is not your fault but pgi`s to implement a working separation of the playerbase, like leagues in real live, to solve this problem. But PGI gave players like you a lot of places like Solaris, FW, GQ or comp play. All places that sooner or later are ghost towns and the dominators wait forever in the queues because no one wants to play with them anymore. What a surprise.

Kroete, on 20 November 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

Spoiler

Long time ago groups were in qp,
pugs were crying and groups telling that they dont get any advantage against pugs,
pgi decided to remove groups over 4 from quickplay.
Groups played some games in grouppplay, realized that there are even groups and no pugs to farm,
groups split up to 4 mans to farm pugs in qp again,
pgi removed every group from qp, groupplay is still mostly empty.

Compplayers were crying about bad pugs,
pgi gave compplayers a seperate queue,
comps played some games and realized that there are no bad pugs to farm,
compplayers goes back to normal queue and compplay is mostly empty.

Maybe read some topics in the cw forum about pugs and splitting queues and who much the groups in cw defend their option to farm pugs and why its bad for the game and who much they want challenges ...

You recognized the pattern behind this and dont get fooled by the "We want challenges!", but not pgi ...

You guys seem to be drinking the coolaid from the 'we hate the comp crowd'. The same group who like to make a bunch of outlandish and false/incorrect statements. So how about we clear up a pile of rubbish with some facts, shall we?

• Comp Queue - It only open during the MWO World Champs. It is open for 3 days in every 7 during the time it is open. That means for roughly 4 months of the year it is open and teams are playing in it. Outside of that it's locked, so of course no one plays it . This season saw the worst turn out yet simply because it was stock mode. A decision by PGI that has led to many Comp Units/Players actually quitting the game.
  
• Group Queue - This is where groups go and have been for, years. There are great groups, average groups and beer league casual groups. All of them play Group Queue. Not just 'Comp/Good' players. They do not split up into 4mans to 'stomp' at all, thats just flat lies. I was in a 8man Rando Group doing GroupQ just last week. If you watch any of the other streamers who are in the average category - they are always doing a lot of group drops even as 12mans, even if they are losing 6/10 matches.
  
• Solaris - PGI gave "us" (being the good players), so we go/should go there? And Solaris is dead because the good playes aren't playing in it??? What kinda absurd statement is that? I would love to see one piece of evidence/post/quote/statement to back that up. I don't remember anyone I know asking for Solaris, ever. Solaris is dead because it is a mode that the majority of the population didn't want and the resources would have been better anywhere else enhancing what we already have.
  
• Faction Play - Is again where groups of good players are meant to go. It used to be, good players and the dirty casuals. The thing is PGI totally borked it with the FP3.0 patch. No one to blame there but PGI. It killed off 100s of units and 1,000s of players. The single biggest population/player exodus in the last 30 months outside of Skill Tree. It was again like Solaris - a very poor implementation and not inline with community expectation (Good and casual players alike).

Rather than whinge and say that "good players are ruining the game" and should "stay out of SoloQ" which is dumb - How about you petition Russ, Paul and whoever else to properly fix the SoloQ match maker so that the filthy casuals stand less of a chance to be in games with good players?

The suggestion I put forward --> HERE <-- is the way to fix SoloQ.

Right now people with 170AMS (sub 50% in overall playerbase) should never, ever be in Tier 1... They should not make it past Tier 4, ever. That is the core problem with the overall 'fun' and enjoyment of the game - the SoloQ match maker which is inherrantly flawed beyond common sense. That way all these players who don't find winning games their main way of enjoyment can all play together more often (according to you guys).

Edited by justcallme A S H, 20 November 2018 - 05:06 PM.

[BIOHAZARD]

W/L ratio in team games is reliable as an indicator only in a sterile setup.

The critical factor is the team cohesion. If a team is random, W/L ratio is just as useful to figuring out particular player's capability, as public opinion polls are to predicting particular individual's point of view. That is completely useless.

If we had teams of choice, meaning you would only ever play with people you want to play with, and they want to play with you (same finite group of say 40, not necessarily same match), then team performances would be a stable marker (because of repetition). And then measuring your performance in that team might mean something.

What we have here is a completely derailed BS gauge, that captures random performance of random groups, that have nothing in common.

On Solaris, on the other hand, your W/L ratio is a VERY precise indicator of your skills. But that is individual performance exactly.

[RJF Volkodav]

justcallme A S H, on 20 November 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

Rather than whinge and say that "good players are ruining the game" and should "stay out of SoloQ" which is dumb - How about you petition Russ, Paul and whoever else to properly fix the SoloQ match maker so that the filthy casuals stand less of a chance to be in games with good players?

This. Fix the matchmaker. At least give us equal "skill" composition (hell keepeng useless "tier" system) between teams so number of potatoes would be equal for both sides and you see how much interesting matches could be.

[justcallme A S H]

BIOHAZARD, on 21 November 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

W/L ratio in team games is reliable as an indicator only in a sterile setup.

The critical factor is the team cohesion. If a team is random, W/L ratio is just as useful to figuring out particular player's capability, as public opinion polls are to predicting particular individual's point of view. That is completely useless.

If we had teams of choice, meaning you would only ever play with people you want to play with, and they want to play with you (same finite group of say 40, not necessarily same match), then team performances would be a stable marker (because of repetition). And then measuring your performance in that team might mean something.

What we have here is a completely derailed BS gauge, that captures random performance of random groups, that have nothing in common.

On Solaris, on the other hand, your W/L ratio is a VERY precise indicator of your skills. But that is individual performance exactly.

Nothing in common except you, the player, and your impact on the match.

To suggest that the fact I have a WLR of over 3.5 is not 'random' at all. I'm constantly doing 1,000+ damage and 3-5 kills with 3-5 KMDDs. This is having an overbearing impact on matches and therefore increase my WLR due to what I do and how I perform in game.

Most skilled players maintain a 2.0 WLR or better. There is absolutely nothing random about that. To suggest it is random shows a grave lack of understanding of MWO and numbers.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 21 November 2018 - 02:45 AM.

[H I A S]

Khobai, on 20 November 2018 - 02:48 PM, said:

lmao again PVP is not always competitive.

competitive means you have a fierce aggressive desire to win or be the best at something. that does not adequately describe most people who play MWO. Most people who play MWO dont care about winning or being the best at it. maybe like 1% of people who play MWO are competitive. but the vast majority are not.

you are simply wrong.

plenty of games have PVP but arnt competitive about it. MWO is mostly casual PVP. Some people play it competitively but theyre the so-called 99%ers and theyre completely out of touch with the rest of the community. Thats why their terrible balance proposal got completely rejected when they tried to bring back x3 PPC/Gauss poptarting among other things. the community didnt want the game to be more competitive. And here you are again trying to force your competitive ideals on the MWO community and once again your boat is full of holes and drowning in the brown sea.



Of course it is. people who play farmville arnt playing it solo. Its a social game; theyre playing it to outdo their friends. But its hardly competitive since most people dont really take it seriously. Its mostly played by the same type of people that try to win at facebook by collecting the most friends. Any game can be considered PVP if you have two or more people trying to &quot;win&quot; at it, even if the definition of winning is entirely subjective. But its certainly not competitive since most people arnt aggressively trying to be the best at farmville. Same with MWO, most people who play MWO are not competitive. Thats a fact.

BIOHAZARD, on 21 November 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

W/L ratio in team games is reliable as an indicator only in a sterile setup.

The critical factor is the team cohesion. If a team is random, W/L ratio is just as useful to figuring out particular player's capability, as public opinion polls are to predicting particular individual's point of view. That is completely useless.

If we had teams of choice, meaning you would only ever play with people you want to play with, and they want to play with you (same finite group of say 40, not necessarily same match), then team performances would be a stable marker (because of repetition). And then measuring your performance in that team might mean something.

What we have here is a completely derailed BS gauge, that captures random performance of random groups, that have nothing in common.

On Solaris, on the other hand, your W/L ratio is a VERY precise indicator of your skills. But that is individual performance exactly.

Ridiculous.

@ASH: Why you are still explaining stuff here? Its pointless.

Edited by H I A S, 21 November 2018 - 02:59 AM.

[Phoenix 72]

justcallme A S H, on 20 November 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

The suggestion I put forward --> HERE <-- is the way to fix SoloQ.

Right now people with 170AMS (sub 50% in overall playerbase) should never, ever be in Tier 1... They should not make it past Tier 4, ever. That is the core problem with the overall 'fun' and enjoyment of the game - the SoloQ match maker which is inherrantly flawed beyond common sense. That way all these players who don't find winning games their main way of enjoyment can all play together more often (according to you guys).

I read that post you linked to above. If T1 is restricted to the top 3% of gamers, as you suggested, you do realise that you will be waiting ages for a game, right?

I just checked the current leaderboards, as I write this 1708 people average 300MS and over. That's about 5% of the active population. That means it will take probably around 20 times as long to get a match for you as it does today. I wonder whether all the T1 guys are going to be happy about that. Considering the complaints I heard about the wait times in the past few days - but then, I am still Tier 2. Many more people in my skill bracket.Now that I think about it, your suggestion might reduce my wait times.

[Nema Nabojiv]

Oh get real already. With 25 thousand active players there is no fixing to the matchmaker.

We're lucky it keeps separating the very bad players from the average rest (which it already fails to do at about 2:00 am CET). Or is it 12 Pm CET? european early night anyway

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 21 November 2018 - 04:48 AM.

[justcallme A S H]

Darakor Stormwind, on 21 November 2018 - 04:10 AM, said:

I read that post you linked to above. If T1 is restricted to the top 3% of gamers, as you suggested, you do realise that you will be waiting ages for a game, right?

I just checked the current leaderboards, as I write this 1708 people average 300MS and over. That's about 5% of the active population. That means it will take probably around 20 times as long to get a match for you as it does today. I wonder whether all the T1 guys are going to be happy about that. Considering the complaints I heard about the wait times in the past few days - but then, I am still Tier 2. Many more people in my skill bracket.Now that I think about it, your suggestion might reduce my wait times.

Where did I say to limit Tier 1 to Tier 1 only?

Tier 1 matches with Tier 3 (no lower) as per Paul's thread as the current implementation. Which is totally fine.

The issue is the sheer volume if Tier 4 level players that have made their way into Tier 1 that have no business being there.

The second stage of that suggestiob is to actually balance the lobby onces it's formed (which doesn't currently happen). But that's another discussion entirely.

[Phoenix 72]

justcallme A S H, on 21 November 2018 - 04:56 AM, said:

Where did I say to limit Tier 1 to Tier 1 only?

Tier 1 matches with Tier 3 (no lower) as per Paul's thread as the current implementation. Which is totally fine.

But if they go ahead with your plan, there will be a significantly lower number of players in T3, 2 and 1.

I am fine with it, I have T4 alt and T2 main, but as I said, you might end up waiting longer. Maybe not 20 times as long, but longer.

[Jack Dawes]

BIOHAZARD, on 21 November 2018 - 01:18 AM, said:

W/L ratio in team games is reliable as an indicator only in a sterile setup.

The critical factor is the team cohesion. If a team is random, W/L ratio is just as useful to figuring out particular player's capability, as public opinion polls are to predicting particular individual's point of view. That is completely useless.

If we had teams of choice, meaning you would only ever play with people you want to play with, and they want to play with you (same finite group of say 40, not necessarily same match), then team performances would be a stable marker (because of repetition). And then measuring your performance in that team might mean something.

What we have here is a completely derailed BS gauge, that captures random performance of random groups, that have nothing in common.

On Solaris, on the other hand, your W/L ratio is a VERY precise indicator of your skills. But that is individual performance exactly.

In order for that to happen, they would have to add more social aspects into the game. The chat interface is almost unbearably bad, even by 1992 standards. The lack of a real lobby, the inability to build groups by privately chatting with them, etc. If you want group play, incentives matter less than capability. And the grouping capabilities of this game are almost entirely dependent on outside mechanisms - teamspeak, discord, vent. Even the "friending" interface is horrid.

Again - if grouping is the goal, give us tools to do so. And stop calling people potatoes. It speaks poorly of you.

[justcallme A S H]

Darakor Stormwind, on 21 November 2018 - 09:51 AM, said:

But if they go ahead with your plan, there will be a significantly lower number of players in T3, 2 and 1.

I am fine with it, I have T4 alt and T2 main, but as I said, you might end up waiting longer. Maybe not 20 times as long, but longer.

End if the day the BULK if the player base should be in Tier 3 if setup correct so that won't matter at all.

[Grus]

Idk if it was already stated but i wouldnt look at MWO leaderbords as the end all save all of how you are doing as a pilot. Jarl's list is a better mesure. If your graphs at the bottom are going up then you know you are improving. Otherwise... well.

[Navid A1]

Not to name and shame... but THIS is the problem with how Tiers are at the moment:

[Grus]

Navid A1, on 21 November 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

Not to name and shame... but THIS is the problem with how Tiers are at the moment:

Well thats what we get for having a teir system thats just like a EXP bar.

[rustyrat]

QP is not a real good standard, as discussed earlier. Some players play more FW, and there the group dynamics is super important (i.e. u just cannot win against well co-ordinated team).

I admit, i sometimes drop horrible bots to get some ongoing reward.

Not all bots are alike, some are simply better, but people tend to just experiment with bad bots (not me !)

Edited by rustyrat, 21 November 2018 - 07:36 PM.

[FRAGTAST1C]

Surprisingly, it is similar to MWO.

[Tiewolf]

justcallme A S H, on 20 November 2018 - 04:51 PM, said:

You guys seem to be drinking the coolaid from the 'we hate the comp crowd'. The same group who like to make a bunch of outlandish and false/incorrect statements. So how about we clear up a pile of rubbish with some facts, shall we?

Rather than whinge and say that "good players are ruining the game" and should "stay out of SoloQ" which is dumb - How about you petition Russ, Paul and whoever else to properly fix the SoloQ match maker so that the filthy casuals stand less of a chance to be in games with good players?

Right now people with 170AMS (sub 50% in overall playerbase) should never, ever be in Tier 1... They should not make it past Tier 4, ever. That is the core problem with the overall 'fun' and enjoyment of the game - the SoloQ match maker which is inherrantly flawed beyond common sense. That way all these players who don't find winning games their main way of enjoyment can all play together more often (according to you guys).

Who hates the comp crowd or good players? Certainly not me because i enjoy watching comp play. Thx for your commentions on MRBC btw.. You did a great job!

Don`t get me wrong nobody should stay out of solo Q. I was just rasing the question why players that are so salty and adverse to play with the rest of the 90% playerbase drop in QP? They have a choice. Be it the gamemodes you perfectly described or private lobbys. Why do they not use them and stop jabbering about potatoes?

Good players do in fact suck the fun out for the majority given the way the game is designed. Maybe you didn`t experience it in a while but dropping against an all star or coordinated group is not fun. When you read the player/unit names in the beginning and you know even before the first mech drops that there is no chance to achieve anything or influence the game. If it happens once in a while ok but after 5 times in a row you start to question why you try to play at all. And don`t tell me "oh we do not have fun to farm seals muh muh muh" "We want to have a challenge muh muh muh". Well why not selfhandycap yourself with lower tonnage and get your challenge? Or group up in different teams against each other? Or go deliberately on the other side if you know that a good merc unit is dropping on yours in event times? Play stock mechs only? (ok sorry forget that unreasonable nightmare mode...wait there was something about MWOWC18 and why i do not watch it?) There are many ways, and contrary to the potatoes, the good player know them all. Why do they not use em?

edit: Had an EMP sync drop on the other team in QP a few minutes ago. Why are they droping sync? To play against each other? They could create a private lobby for that purpose so i don`t buy that lame excuse.

Ironically some players even cry for more power to influence games atm and call that "balance". With the engine desync pgi made a move to narrow the gap between the good and the rest of the player base. You need skill to roll damage. If pgi increases mobility then TTK would only go up for the top 10% of the player population. All others won`t profit from a change like that in the same way because they lack the skills to use it. Thats what i meant with the crystal sea eco room blindness. How much skill can influence the game is a pure design choice by pgi. Personaly i would profit from a mobility increase because i can use it but in the big picture i think it is not a smart move to enlarge the power gap between players even further.

I would love to see a fixed MM. But given the state of the playerbase i guess you can`t even improve it without hours of waiting time for the top 10%. And even then good players are forced to bring meta because they will mainly drop against meta. If they want to level a subpar mech it will be a hell against all other >90%. What i do not know is why pgi does not give different stats to different environments to make the playerbase happy. Why not open comp queue 24h and increase the wanted mobility, weapon damage, less/no ghost heat and so on for the games played there. This would solve a lot of complains and it is possible even with the given playerbase.

Edited by Tiewolf, 22 November 2018 - 03:06 AM.

[UnkerZ]

Talking about ****** MM recently, I've switched all my pug builds into a min 100-alpha 300m punch to ensure the best odds of victory (and well.. its damn fun to blow someone up in the face after all). The appearance of any LRM friendly maps halve the odds to win tho, but at least its not that common thankfully.

I can remember a game where I solo killed 5 + 1 kmdd and eventually got ***** by 4 hyenas making me wonder dafuq was the rest of the team doing. A quick look into the spectator cam, proved everything. The scoreboard, probably you could predict - 6 players with <100 dmg output. I mean like ... God... how do you die horribly and not crap out 100 damage?

Funny thing was - the other team had another guy with 1.1K damage, mine roughly 1.2K (thanks to a potential 1 hit alpha to anything less than 70 tons). He must have had fun blowing up potatoes like I did, before the team with more leftover potatoes ripped him apart. I shall now crawl into the corner and continue my lrmbashing campaign.

Add another fun scene: Anni completely ignoring a light mech in line of sight trying to core his teammate, in favor of tracking a target through the hill. Add on the fact the poor fella was crying for help. I gave up my sanity that day and seriously started thinking about B33F DireStar builds.

Edited by KassimBaba, 22 November 2018 - 06:55 PM.