113 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

Nema Nabojiv, on 19 November 2018 - 06:19 AM, said:

He's right though.

You are one of the top playes, no wonder your sniping can be effective. Average player trying to play sniper - not so much. They usually dont do enough damage to justify their absence in the main engagement.

I rarely play anything longer than 600m in QP.

Sniping would be 1000m+.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 19 November 2018 - 06:29 AM.

[Daurock]

Tiewolf, on 19 November 2018 - 04:50 AM, said:

If farmville and score competition oriented games aren`t PvP is debatable but what most of the crystal sea eco chamber only warriors forget is, that there are many different levels and standards of competition. Some like Navid might use every advantage he can bring to prove his surpremacy over potatoes. Others like me can`t use consumables because they need the c-bills, can`t use mics because a baby is sleeping next to him, is tiered of fielding meta only, got less time to practice, got worse hardware, worse ping and so on. The problem is Navid forces his "competitivenes" on players like me who simply can`t affort to compete on that level.

To be fair, those guys have just as much right to go into quick play as the rest of us do. Just like I don't like it when one of them goes off on their own team for being "Bad," or railing on someone specific for bringing a sub-optimal build, Trying to fault a guy for playing his best is a kind of backwards too.

That being said - They do have to realize that that's the nature of quick play. People are gonna be less than optimal more often than not. If they don't want to play with potatoes, there are modes that accomodate that. By that same token, the rest of us have to realize that there are those people that are absolutely gonna try-hard in the mode, and we gotta accept that they're probably gonna win some more because of it. Quick play is just that - A grab bag of a whole bunch of random people. Sometimes that randomness is gonna play in your favor, and sometimes not, and that's just the nature of the mode. People would do well to remember that.

[Nightbird]

Keep in mind QP Stats combine solo and group, making it less than accurate to determine a player's actual skill.

We keep asking for separation, but PGI doesn't deliver.

[Racerxintegra2k]

Bombast, on 18 November 2018 - 08:08 PM, said:

It's hard to tell, but with that disparity between your KDR and WLR, my first guess is that you're playing the long range game and not contributing to an actual battle line, and thus your team collapses. I used to see this a lot when I was playing a Hellbringer - I'd find a good spot out of the way of enemy attention, get hit after hit in without trading, get a lot of kills and damage... and then still lose because the friendly battle line collapsed and I was out of position to absorb the rush or hold everything together.



Do you ever tire of being on the exact polar opposite of right?

I actually cant play long range support builds. I do must of my damage within 200-400 meters. I may play the occasional long range build to try and get better but i'm horrible at it.

[ShiverMeRivets]

justcallme A S H, on 19 November 2018 - 01:41 AM, said:

Plenty to debunk there.

• I play mainly Heavy at the moment as Assault's just get left behind due to incessant rotating by the community. I was (prior to the last 3 months) basically Assault only.
  
• Sniping as in, ranged play? I can play @ 700m in a heavy and I assure you I am having 10 fold the impact on the match than 95% of the players I get teamed with.
  
• Given my WLR in just Heavy Mechs this season is higher than when I was in Assaults in previous seasons...

Dunno man, but what you are saying is not the reality.

600 or 700 is still within fire range of most opponents, so you still attract fire and share some armor. Not as much as leading the push, but not useless 1000 meters on some ledge. Also, I excluded very good and active snipers, which I bet inclues vetran players like you (tiny percentage). The typical sniper takes 5 minutes to get into position, then fire 1 shot and retreats until the enemy is tired of looking at him. Piss poor DPS.

There are some heavy mechs that given a good pilot can act as assults, especially when there are no assults, or there are but acting useless (on both teams), or were abandoned by their team in their infinite wisdom because nascar FTW.

I was stating a very non scientific observation that close games are usually determined by the last mechs being lights or assults. Rarely I see 2 on 2 mediums fighting for the narrow victory and end up with 800+ damage and 4+ kills. Not impossible, but rare.

[Bud Crue]

This is an interesting thread.

Lots of info, lots of snark and mockery. Good stuff.

Anyway,in a legitimate effort to answer the OP’s how do I get better/what am I doing wrong question, I can only answer from the perspective of a Tier 1 chronic terribad, who spent a couple of months last year trying my damndest to not play as I usually play and instead tried to play in the manner that I have observed known good players to play.

Here’s what I did:

1) Identify the meta by actually asking top players what are the best mechs and builds to run at the moment and then play them with near exclusivity.

2) Be assertive on coms and when you call something or if someone else calls something WAIT until at least a sizable portion of the team is responding appropriately, and only then proceed as instructed. DO NOT ASSUME A CALL IS BEING FOLLOWED. Verify on the minimap before engaging. (Generally if there is a call I just do it without thinking or looking and it gets me killed A LOT).

3) This is common sense for most to the point where it is taken for granted by a lot of folks, but it is pretty hard for some (including myself): make sure you hit R and try, as hard as you can to aim at the damaged spots in the torsos or legs. I can barely aim so I typically go for center of mass, but actually aiming (and hitting) damaged key components is just a huge skill to learn and utilize in this game and I am convinced it is what sets most of us seals from the rest. Be patient and take the shot that counts.

4) Shoot what others are shooting at. Call/follow the target (and component) and shoot it. Don’t decide that the mech that just ran past is a bigger priority for you since it’s right there, rather stick with the call and kill as a group.

5) Hardest one for me, and the main reason I reverted back to my old ways: Don’t try to brawl. By all means brawl if the brawl happens, but don’t play to brawl. If your bad at the game, you are probably bad at twisting, shielding, situational awareness, heat control, etc. and all of those are kind of important if you are going to brawl. So don’t do be in that situation on purpose, and instead play to trade, and trade intelligently, then brawl if you must. But trading keeps you alive longer and doing more and better damage for a greater amount of time. I am not very good at this and I don’t find it to be very fun, but I really think it is kinda key if you want to get your stats up there.

When I spent a couple months making a conscious effort to do the above. My stats went up like 25% for that period. Players who are inherently more skilled would, I suspect, have even better results. Just my observations fore what worked for me (for a brief moment, until I fell back into what I enjoy).

[Brauer]

Bud Crue, on 19 November 2018 - 11:31 AM, said:

This is an interesting thread.

Lots of info, lots of snark and mockery. Good stuff.

Anyway,in a legitimate effort to answer the OP’s how do I get better/what am I doing wrong question, I can only answer from the perspective of a Tier 1 chronic terribad, who spent a couple of months last year trying my damndest to not play as I usually play and instead tried to play in the manner that I have observed known good players to play.

Here’s what I did:

1) Identify the meta by actually asking top players what are the best mechs and builds to run at the moment and then play them with near exclusivity.

2) Be assertive on coms and when you call something or if someone else calls something WAIT until at least a sizable portion of the team is responding appropriately, and only then proceed as instructed. DO NOT ASSUME A CALL IS BEING FOLLOWED. Verify on the minimap before engaging. (Generally if there is a call I just do it without thinking or looking and it gets me killed A LOT).

3) This is common sense for most to the point where it is taken for granted by a lot of folks, but it is pretty hard for some (including myself): make sure you hit R and try, as hard as you can to aim at the damaged spots in the torsos or legs. I can barely aim so I typically go for center of mass, but actually aiming (and hitting) damaged key components is just a huge skill to learn and utilize in this game and I am convinced it is what sets most of us seals from the rest. Be patient and take the shot that counts.

4) Shoot what others are shooting at. Call/follow the target (and component) and shoot it. Don’t decide that the mech that just ran past is a bigger priority for you since it’s right there, rather stick with the call and kill as a group.

5) Hardest one for me, and the main reason I reverted back to my old ways: Don’t try to brawl. By all means brawl if the brawl happens, but don’t play to brawl. If your bad at the game, you are probably bad at twisting, shielding, situational awareness, heat control, etc. and all of those are kind of important if you are going to brawl. So don’t do be in that situation on purpose, and instead play to trade, and trade intelligently, then brawl if you must. But trading keeps you alive longer and doing more and better damage for a greater amount of time. I am not very good at this and I don’t find it to be very fun, but I really think it is kinda key if you want to get your stats up there.

When I spent a couple months making a conscious effort to do the above. My stats went up like 25% for that period. Players who are inherently more skilled would, I suspect, have even better results. Just my observations fore what worked for me (for a brief moment, until I fell back into what I enjoy).

This all strikes me as fairly good advice. Playing strictly optimal mechs will most likely lead to an increase in your stats. It doesn't mean that players with good WLR only play the best meta mechs, but if you aren't playing to the QP meta it will most likely depress your stats a bit. I've never wanted to just run MKII-Bs or laser vom HBRs, but I do try to at least run builds that are built with a specialized purpose in mind and play to their strengths. I might be able to tick my WLR up a bit if I only played the best mechs, but unless I am having a really bad losing streak I try to leave that for my FP drops, or my ever-rarer solaris drops.

[Dee Eight]

Racerxintegra2k, on 19 November 2018 - 07:20 AM, said:

I actually cant play long range support builds. I do must of my damage within 200-400 meters. I may play the occasional long range build to try and get better but i'm horrible at it.

Do you play heat efficient builds which rarely shutdown ? If so, consider a 5 consumable loadout, 2 strike, 2 uav, 1 coolshot (for that rare time). Proper uav placement will help your team win, and proper strike placements will also help your team win. Proper being the keyword though. Putting a strike down that damages a single mech (unless its a standing still light and you kill it) won't really help your team. Putting a strike down that hits an entire lance, on the other hand. Proper strike placement also includes putting it where the enemy is unaware of what is about to befall them. If an enemy UAV goes up, put an arty strike on it...chances are the enemy is underneath it. If you're playing grim plexus... and the game is devolving into the usual nascar around the base at G8/F8/G7/F7... put a strike on top of the antennas atop the block buildings or on the light towers. Few look up at them to realize in time there's red smoke on them. If you're fighting HPG... strikes placed against the outer walls from the basement will hit mechs above without any smoke for them to see at all. I like to park on a corner not moving, wait for seismic contacts above and then WHAMMO.I've killed several lights simultaneously that way who are creeping and poking on the ramps while waiting for the assaults to move up.

Edited by Dee Eight, 19 November 2018 - 03:18 PM.

[Tiewolf]

Navid A1, on 19 November 2018 - 06:24 AM, said:

I don't have any control on how you play the game. So I expect people to understand that the definition of "fun" is different for others.... something that you conveniently took out of context for god knows what purpose.

Your "fun" is different then the fun other people might seek playing this game. Thats totally fine and I will allways speak up that you and everybody else has its place to have their thing.

Navid A1, on 19 November 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

You having fun in YOUR PvP game translates to You pissing in my face on my side, while I'm working my *** off trying to win a match.

But why are you playing QP if you are so much better then the potatoes and they piss you off? Why not handycap yourself if it is too easy for you? Why are you mad at players that might not have the same drive, experience or possibilities then you? Why are you playing a teambased multiplayer in the first place if you can`t stand that others are out of your control?

My point was that you hold enough power to force the potatoes to adapt to what you do to dominate them or they are turkeys to shoot for your "fun". Players like you force potatoes to embrace your definition of "fun" or stop playing. It is not your fault but pgi`s to implement a working separation of the playerbase, like leagues in real live, to solve this problem. But PGI gave players like you a lot of places like Solaris, FW, GQ or comp play. All places that sooner or later are ghost towns and the dominators wait forever in the queues because no one wants to play with them anymore. What a surprise.
Pgi didn`t learn that lesson yet and gave no save heaven to the rest of the 90% casual playerbase to avoid players with your power and motives a.k.a. "fun". You have so many places to play. Why come to QP? Players quit because they reached T1-T2 or restart with new accounts. Most of the playerbase avoid Solaris, FW and GQ for a reason other than "its a bad gamemode". Guess why they have no fun.

[Kroete]

Tiewolf, on 20 November 2018 - 03:28 AM, said:

It is not your fault but pgi`s to implement a working separation of the playerbase, like leagues in real live, to solve this problem. But PGI gave players like you a lot of places like Solaris, FW, GQ or comp play. All places that sooner or later are ghost towns and the dominators wait forever in the queues because no one wants to play with them anymore. What a surprise.

Long time ago groups were in qp,
pugs were crying and groups telling that they dont get any advantage against pugs,
pgi decided to remove groups over 4 from quickplay.
Groups played some games in grouppplay, realized that there are even groups and no pugs to farm,
groups split up to 4 mans to farm pugs in qp again,
pgi removed every group from qp, groupplay is still mostly empty.

Compplayers were crying about bad pugs,
pgi gave compplayers a seperate queue,
comps played some games and realized that there are no bad pugs to farm,
compplayers goes back to normal queue and compplay is mostly empty.

Maybe read some topics in the cw forum about pugs and splitting queues and who much the groups in cw defend their option to farm pugs and why its bad for the game and who much they want challenges ...

You recognized the pattern behind this and dont get fooled by the "We want challenges!", but not pgi ...

Edited by Kroete, 20 November 2018 - 04:42 AM.

[Kroete]

Navid A1, on 19 November 2018 - 02:56 AM, said:

You having fun in YOUR PvP game translates to You pissing in my face on my side, while I'm working my *** off trying to win a match.

Cant bear random teammates?
Not tough enough for random mech builds?
Not strong enough to play chaotic matches with no real strategy?

Then we have the solution for you:
Go play compplay, cw or qp where you can control your teammates, their mechs and builds!

Still to much randomness?
Upgrade to solaris where you are solo, have your mech, your build and your skills and no teammates to blame!

Bombast, on 19 November 2018 - 05:42 AM, said:

Some people just appreciate not sucking.

Does not sucking in a virtual computer game helps in getting sucked?

Edited by Kroete, 20 November 2018 - 04:47 AM.

[Bombast]

Kroete, on 20 November 2018 - 04:38 AM, said:

Does not sucking in a virtual computer game helps in getting sucked?

No. Does everything in your life revolve around blow jobs? Kind of a sad existence, if you ask me, but beer commercials say its the ultimate existence so I guess it must be.

[Bud Crue]

Kroete, on 20 November 2018 - 04:29 AM, said:

...
You recognized the pattern behind this and dont get fooled by the "We want challenges!", but not pgi ...

C’mon man. Really?

A story:
I play GQ almost exclusively. Me and mine are filthy beer league casuals. We get beat a lot, especially when comp folks are around in force and dropping together. But most evenings we have a good mix of folks of all skill levels to play against (the GQ regulars if you will). We rarely see the queue dominated by the comp folks normally, except when the comp community has nothing else to do.

Lately there are mixed groups of 228, EON, and many others “farming” us poor casuals why? Because the “battle for midway” event that members of comp community put together so that they could indeed have a setting where they fought one another and get good matches, etc. has now concluded. So what are these folks left to do? They can play the game that PGI has set up or not play at all. That isn’t some dastardly plot to farm pugs and beat up the little leaguers who dare to come on to their field out of some sick sense of a need to show personal dominance and drive folks out of the game, or whatever; but rather they play the modes available to them, just like the rest of us.

Yes, I am sure the comp folks have some folks who are jerks (in fact I know they do) but for the most part they really do want to fight each other and ave a “challenge” and not waist their time beating up the rest of us filthy casuals. I know this because I know there are things like MRBC, and the aforementioned BFM event, and others that they put together and play so they can infact play each other without us pugs messing up their games.

[Kubernetes]

Why do bad players all imagine that good players are some especially sadistic tribe that only wants to farm baddies? That's just not my experience at all. I don't know anyone who enjoys melting some poor dude who stands out in the open firing MGs at targets 1000m away. If I wanted that I'd spend my time in training grounds.

[Grus]

Racerxintegra2k, on 18 November 2018 - 09:32 AM, said:

The question is ... how.

My last 5-6 matches my team was rolled like beach ball. i was typically in the top 2 in the match for Kills, dmg and match score. Seems like on my squad there was 5+ players sub 100 dmg

You play the off hours when the big/good units/players arnt on.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I want to Thank Everyone that posted, both good and bad. I appreciate all the advice, it helped confirm what i was thinking on several issues and gave me some new things to try out as well.

Kubernetes, on 20 November 2018 - 05:09 AM, said:

Why do bad players all imagine that good players are some especially sadistic tribe that only wants to farm baddies? That's just not my experience at all. I don't know anyone who enjoys melting some poor dude who stands out in the open firing MGs at targets 1000m away. If I wanted that I'd spend my time in training grounds.

I used to think that, there was such a disparaging gap in skill that i couldn't comprehend good players are people to lol..... people that want to win and do what it takes to win.

[Arend]

I think many Players are already loosing in the Mechlab it's unbelievable what kind of terrible loadouts people bring to the battlefield, as a player who wants to improve first rule should be don't bring bad mechs with ****** loadouts!

[Daggett]

Arend, on 20 November 2018 - 06:14 AM, said:

I think many Players are already loosing in the Mechlab it's unbelievable what kind of terrible loadouts people bring to the battlefield, as a player who wants to improve first rule should be don't bring bad mechs with ****** loadouts!

In general i agree but in my opinion that's not the whole truth. To know what works best for you, lots of experimenting is needed first. And sometimes what's bad in your eyes performs much better in different hands and vice versa.

So i think the first rule for players who want to improve is to experiment and analyze. The very best players don't just play what others define as meta, they are constantly seeking to break the current meta. And this of cause involves trying non-meta builds many players would probably put into the 'bad' category. More often than not those builds are indeed not viable, but sometimes a good player may discover a gem while fiddling around with unusual builds.

One example is probably the triple UAC2 Dragon Proton used in the 2017 tournament. This build is not viable for at least 98% of MWO's population, but in his hands it's insanely strong. He would have never discovered this build by only playing the good stuff he already knew about.

So personally i try to avoid judging anyone for running what i think is a bad build. Sure, in most cases such players indeed have no idea what they do, but chances are that a seemingly bad build is driven by a veteran who can still kick some butts with it before he tries something else.

Edited by Daggett, 20 November 2018 - 07:41 AM.

[Vxheous]

Daggett, on 20 November 2018 - 07:26 AM, said:

In my opinion that's not the whole truth. To know what works best for you, lots of experimenting is needed first. And sometimes what's bad in your eyes performs much better in different hands and vice versa.

So i think the first rule for players who want to improve is to experiment and analyze. The very best players don't just play what others define as meta, they are constantly seeking to break the current meta. And this of cause involves playing non-meta builds many players would probably put into the 'bad' category. More often than not those builds are indeed not viable, but sometimes a good player may discover a gem while fiddling around with unusual builds.

There's experimenting within the understanding of game mechanics (which good players would do), and outright losing in mechlab because of complete lack of understanding. No amount of experimenting is going to make an assault with 1 large pulse, 2 small lasers, 2 machineguns, and a LRM 5+artemis viable, that's just lose game at mechlab.

Edited by Vxheous, 20 November 2018 - 05:28 PM.

[Dogstar]

Vxheous, on 20 November 2018 - 07:34 AM, said:

There's experimenting within the understanding of game mechanics (which good players would do), and outright losing in mechlab because of complete lack of understanding. No amount of experimenting is going to make an assault with 1 large pulse, 2 small lasers, 2 machineguns, and a LRM 5 viable, that's just lose game at mechlab.

I suggest you don't come anywhere near this game after the Banshee release...!