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Why Mw5 Will Be A Flop


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#61 Roland09

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 11:35 AM

View PostIronWatch, on 02 December 2018 - 04:44 AM, said:

The fatalism of this forum is beyond nihilistic. Bugger me can you kids have any enthusiasm for anything?


Yes.

Back in the day, we were promised this:

This weekend, we got this: https://clips.twitch...dSkirretPJSugar

My entusiasm is going through the roof… of the People living all the stories directly below me.

#62 Kaeb Odellas

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 02:34 PM

View PostAsym, on 02 December 2018 - 06:16 AM, said:

That's it? That's about as innovative as the simplicity of the VW Beetle.... The storyline is the IP and of all of the tied concepts, Mercenaries avoids the actual storyline......IS versus Clan. It fit yet another niche and we went there in MW4.

Why not take this IP for a spin..... This is the same as Hollywood and films: sequel after sequel because they avoid the R&D costs to make sequels......they can make money BUT, as with MW5, there could be so much more......

Of course, that would assume that they have an innovation team with the skills to make "something new...." Nope. As I have said before, the "next generation" of game developers will make games that are smart, self learning and self adapting and the can "teach" and "reward" individual skills and accomplishments......

MW5 is just re-do of that which came before it........because it looks that way and perception is reality....


They set out to create another numbered entry in the Mechwarrior series, and it seems they are doing just that. I don't know what the heck you're expecting here.

It's especially befuddling when you seem to complain about MW5 not covering the IS vs Clan conflict, which was covered in previous games.

#63 TheCaptainJZ

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:07 PM

PGI has only churned out mediocre products, this game included. I mean, it's fun sometimes, but there's absolutely no depth to it and the direction over the past year should prove to everyone that this game is just in maintenance mode. Why would anyone expect MW5 to be better? I would expect MW5 to launch but it will only be ok as a game and a shadow of what it could be.

#64 Vxheous

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 03:18 PM

I played it today (non super pod cause joystick is meh for me) and it definitely feels different than MWO. The mechs stomp around more, there's more cockpit movement/shake, and when my thunderbolt took an ac20 round, it felt like my mech spun (i actually got slightly disoriented). AI is not thay smart, but we were told that there's multiple levels of AI and this was set at the lowest levels (you had attendees showing their 6-7 year olds how to play. As far as a single player game goes, I'd probably get it just to play through the story, but it doesn't replace killing actual people in MWO.

I can definitely see an appeal for those that can't hack it in PvP play but want stompy robots

Edited by Vxheous, 02 December 2018 - 03:19 PM.


#65 Racerxintegra2k

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

View PostVxheous, on 02 December 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

I played it today (non super pod cause joystick is meh for me) and it definitely feels different than MWO. The mechs stomp around more, there's more cockpit movement/shake, and when my thunderbolt took an ac20 round, it felt like my mech spun (i actually got slightly disoriented). AI is not thay smart, but we were told that there's multiple levels of AI and this was set at the lowest levels (you had attendees showing their 6-7 year olds how to play. As far as a single player game goes, I'd probably get it just to play through the story, but it doesn't replace killing actual people in MWO.

I can definitely see an appeal for those that can't hack it in PvP play but want stompy robots


Think that cockpit shake is enough to give people sensitive to vertigo the spinnies ?

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 02 December 2018 - 04:07 PM.


#66 Novakaine

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 04:21 PM

Well I saw some tanks.

#67 MechaBattler

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:36 PM

My other concern is that we didn't see any of 'unit management'. That was one of the big selling points in my book. And at this stage in development they should have something to show for that. But all they're showing is combat and coop. Which is great. But for the long run of the game I would rather see some of the out of combat aspects of being a merc unit.

#68 Xmith

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:49 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 02 December 2018 - 05:46 AM, said:

Still better than Star Citizen.

Not sure it will be better than Star Citizen or not. The two are not comparable when it comes to the final product. MW5 will certainly be less expensive to play.

#69 Koniving

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:57 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 01 December 2018 - 10:07 PM, said:


It adds both strategic and tactical depth.

My fear is that the AI is going to be cheap. Either too stupid to amount to much of a threat or accurate beyond human ability with their damage placement to be an overly dangerous and frustrating threat. It won't be about having to systematically dismantle an enemy force by targeting support mechanisms before attacking the main body, with constant worry of running into an enemy patrol and tripping reinforcements, etc.

It really seems like you can basically just own the game by spamming LRMs or AC/2s in every mission.


I have some input here. PCGamer said they tried the latest version and they really liked the AI. They had these two complaints though.

The AI still has issues with running into objects (especially aircraft).
The AI has an issue with leaving weak spots too open. (This sounds like the AI isn't trying to protect vital weak spots such as no armor left on left torso, doesn't care if LT is getting hit).
(Scratch the above. Rereading it the issue is the AI leaves itself too open; it isn't taking advantage of the environment to give itself time to cool off or defend against fire.)

Beyond that they seem to enjoy how it fights.

Edit: changed weapons to weak spots but then realized I may have read it wrong and put the other interpretation of what was said here.

Edited by Koniving, 02 December 2018 - 06:02 PM.


#70 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 06:05 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 01 December 2018 - 09:54 PM, said:

> Objective of mission is to save the town

> Runs through all the buildings and not a word from the game

gg ez NPC murder simulator.


Quote : "as Garden takes great pains to emphasise, in the final game the player’s particular flavour of mayhem will reflect back on their mercenary unit, factoring into which missions they take to how they target enemies.".

So on the one side, MW5 won't remove your freedom to totally trash everything in sight...

But on the other side, factions will start hating you and singling you at an enemy of the state, if you keep doing too much civilian damage to their faction.

And I wouldn't have it another way.

Edited by Humble Dexter, 02 December 2018 - 06:35 PM.


#71 Y E O N N E

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:44 PM

View PostHumble Dexter, on 02 December 2018 - 06:05 PM, said:


Quote : "as Garden takes great pains to emphasise, in the final game the player’s particular flavour of mayhem will reflect back on their mercenary unit, factoring into which missions they take to how they target enemies.".

So on the one side, MW5 won't remove your freedom to totally trash everything in sight...

But on the other side, factions will start hating you and singling you at an enemy of the state, if you keep doing too much civilian damage to their faction.

And I wouldn't have it another way.


It's not about removing the freedom to destroy things, it's about demonstrating that those actions are in fact being reflected.

A simple communications shout about unnecessary destruction and a negative score modifier for the sloppy mission completion do not remove the freedom to willfully [Redacted] at following RoE, but does show that it matters.

Edited by draiocht, 03 December 2018 - 04:37 AM.
inappropriate language


#72 El Bandito

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:10 PM

View PostXmith, on 02 December 2018 - 05:49 PM, said:

Not sure it will be better than Star Citizen or not. The two are not comparable when it comes to the final product. MW5 will certainly be less expensive to play.


View PostEl Bandito, on 02 December 2018 - 06:25 AM, said:

I meant that no matter how much MW5 is being criticized, it will still be a released game, compared to Star Citizen--which continues to suck up money without being released.


#73 InvictusLee

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:17 PM

View PostVxheous, on 02 December 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

I played it today (non super pod cause joystick is meh for me) and it definitely feels different than MWO. The mechs stomp around more, there's more cockpit movement/shake, and when my thunderbolt took an ac20 round, it felt like my mech spun (i actually got slightly disoriented). AI is not thay smart, but we were told that there's multiple levels of AI and this was set at the lowest levels (you had attendees showing their 6-7 year olds how to play. As far as a single player game goes, I'd probably get it just to play through the story, but it doesn't replace killing actual people in MWO.

I can definitely see an appeal for those that can't hack it in PvP play but want stompy robots


Thanks for the info bro!

#74 Warning incoming Humble Dexterer

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:37 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 02 December 2018 - 07:44 PM, said:

It's not about removing the freedom to destroy things, it's about demonstrating that those actions are in fact being reflected.

A simple communications shout about unnecessary destruction and a negative score modifier for the sloppy mission completion do not remove the freedom to willfully [Redacted] at following RoE, but does show that it matters.

Yes that's a good point, and what I answered, is that those actions will totally be reflected "in the gameplay".

In both the way the different factions treat you, and what future missions will be available to you.

As for how far those factions will go out of their way to get back at you : Meet you in 2019 Posted Image

Edited by draiocht, 03 December 2018 - 04:37 AM.
Quote Clean-up


#75 Khobai

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Posted 02 December 2018 - 11:55 PM

View PostIronWatch, on 02 December 2018 - 04:44 AM, said:

The fatalism of this forum is beyond nihilistic. Bugger me can you kids have any enthusiasm for anything?


There was a time when people were genuinely excited and optimistic about this game. If people are beyond nihilistic now its because PGI made them that way. Thats the truth.

People are sick of every patch being one step forward and two steps back. Theyre sick of repeated nerfs for no good reason. Theyre sick of bad maps/gamemodes not getting fixed. Theyre sick of paid content like mechpacks and boltons being pushed instead of actual content. And theyre sick of all of their complaints and suggestions ending up as white noise.

Id find it strange if the community wasnt nihilistic after five years of that... and its no surprise that 80% of the players have left.

And yeah MW5 is going to flop. Because PGI didnt time the launch of MW5 right. MW5 shouldve been announced/launched when MWO was at its peak. Not years after its heavily declined... theres just no hype for it especially with MWO being in the decrepit state its in now. And there's the whole fact that PGI has lost people's faith and theres no way they can really regain it at this point.

I mean look at bethesda and fallout 76. bethesda did things right for years and that earned them a pass on fallout 4. But theyve completely lost people's faith with fallout 76. Where PGI has never done anything right and hasnt even earned themselves a pass lol. MW5 sales will reflect that accordingly.

Edited by Khobai, 03 December 2018 - 12:11 AM.


#76 mad kat

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 03:28 AM

When I heard there was another mechwarrior title coming out all those months back I was excited..... Then I realized it was to be made by PGI my interest stopped dead there and then. Even the clunkly awkward promo video didn't help much.

I best refrain from being too slanderous. I've already been modded once

#77 El Bandito

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 05:45 AM

View PostVxheous, on 02 December 2018 - 03:18 PM, said:

AI is not thay smart, but we were told that there's multiple levels of AI and this was set at the lowest levels


Dollars to donuts that MW5's AI settings is nothing more than increased damage and accuracy %, instead of actual AI behavior improvement.

#78 Lightfoot

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:17 AM

View PostChados, on 02 December 2018 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well, I looked at the presentation on the Twitch replay.

The AI looks about MW4 level, as other posters have commented. Similar to low Tier 5 play in MWO. Time-to-kill looks to be higher than MWO. Part of that is that the PGI players were on joysticks and they look to be pretty spudly even without that. They didn’t follow drop lead targeting orders and didn’t focus. MW5 is using a lot of MWO assets. The TDR’s cockpit is right out of MWO, and all the models are MWO assets, all clearly recognizable. Terrain looks good, and the buildings all are destructible. LRM15 spread is atrocious as is flight time. Laser recycle times are awful. Heat generation and dissipation are in line with present MWO mechs, post-91 skills, but it’s obvious that the mechs are sporting single heat sinks. Piloting mechanics are identical to MWO all across the board, some of the icons on the minimap for mech types are different and the fonts, colors, and graphics for the HUD are slightly different but placement and in-combat operation will be instantly recognizable to any MWO vet and should be easy to pick up, probably halfway through the first drop we will feel comfortable. Mech agility appears similar to older IS platforms in MWO. And the Marauder 3R made an appearance. That tells me that the Harmony Gold settlement gave PGI the authority to use at least some of the present MWO Unseen/Reseen in games derived from MWO.

I suspect that we are seeing what MWO2 will look like in about 36 months, give or take six months. And I wasn’t surprised at the September ‘19 date. That’ll get pushed back to Q1 2020, I imagine.


Well to be specific, AI works with a sensor range limit for the player, then either guards or patrols. It can have a radio contact to allied AI or a group of allied AI. How this is used will either make the mechs appear to be tactically smart or stupid. So it is largely scripting. The other thing AI's do is hit their target. They can always hit accurately (Ace or Elite) and this forces the player to shield their CT and leads to whines of 'OP, I can't get through the mission', etc. Or they can hit less accurately, more like an average human might. Also how often the mech might use jump-jets or move evasively.

But whether the AI appears dumb or incredibly devious is mostly how it is scripted in the mission. When does it react to the player and how. Like "if 7 dead retreat to map grid 247x756 and guard asset". Now have that align with the mission story the player is engaged in, the mission goal, and the AI seems intelligent. But that is mission scripting and storytelling. It can be very complex and predict possible tactics the player might employ. This stuff is always being touched up until release so you just have to wait to give any judgement.

#79 Racerxintegra2k

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:23 AM

I was going to pre-order MW:5. After this mechcon, i don't even think i'll be buying it unless its the cost of a mechpack. What i saw from this Mechcon was just so sad.

#80 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 03 December 2018 - 07:55 AM

Well, I was stuck on Voyager, pounding on the door
When suddenly it dawned on me I've seen this show before
Perhaps I'm in a warp bubble slightly out of phase
Cause it was way back in the sixties when they called it Lost in Space..........



Nope, might buy it when it gets reviewed but sorry PGI you earned your rep





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