100 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

MauttyKoray, on 09 December 2018 - 11:58 AM, said:

Pretty much this. MWO and cryengine have always been a wonky combination with the number of hitboxes, mech geometry, and multiplayer latency/server communication.

Sometimes **** happens, I'm sure it can be mitigated but don't hold your breathe for it to be completely removed. Its probably a pretty massive headache for the programmers, speaking as someone who has limited basic programming experience.

Sorry, but no in this case it's much more simple - just hitbox orientation much like the initial Sunspider for those few of us who actually bought it when it came out. If you look at the pictures I provided, and the hitbox layout it's fairly obvious. It's not so much getting shot "through" but more getting your back armor shot from the front, because your back armor is able to be shot at from the front.

[Jackal Noble]

[Grus]

Jackal Noble, on 09 December 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

So in essence, you came on here to dispute the veracity of my argument despite not having a Vapor Eagle just to make some noise?

How very Grus like of you


Further, if that is your opinion on what the Vapor is capable of, you are dead wrong. The only thing it can't do better than the Stormcrow or Huntsman is boat missiles/streaks; It can however carry far heavier launchers.

One s, buddy

On the first part, mearly disputing your evidence, is there a chance to get hit from the front and deal damage to the back? Yes, i never said that there wasnt. But welcome to a lot of other mechs with that same issue. If you think its MORE than the norm then ok, we need data. Because if the hitbox pic you showed is your only real "smoking gun" then imo its not enough.

[Jackal Noble]

Haha k, would a video suffice?
I don't have anyone to drop with to test this, so would a video in academy be sufficient?

Also, you correcting my spelling - the irony

[Jackal Noble]

Here ya go

Edited by Jackal Noble, 09 December 2018 - 02:24 PM.

[RickySpanish]

Jackal Noble, on 09 December 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Here ya go

As if those stupid pods weren't large enough. The Vapor Eagle is the very epitomy of form over function. It has stupid variance in side torso hardpoint placement height, stupidly large arms, and a daft asymmetry to the layout of ts hardpoint types. Oh, and it is too tall to boot.

But hey, it looks good and I'm totally going to see it replacing other medium 'Mechs in QP any day now, because the forum Elite decreed it as The Next Big Thing. It certainly *is* big, mind you...

[Jackal Noble]

I mean it is a good mech, has good capabilities etc, looks great.
That said, the hitbox reg should be adjusted, from a gameplay standpoint.

[Mcgral18]

Cheetah and missile pods are similar in theory, but their hitboxes on the sides are all front; only the very rear panel is Rear torso


I wonder why they would change their procedure

[Grus]

The video did help. And as i was watching i think i have a soloution that dosnt require a hit box change. A smaller mech. The VE is the same size of a AWS. If we could just make the mech smaller that would in turn make the hitboxes smaller.

[Grus]

Jackal Noble, on 09 December 2018 - 12:29 PM, said:

Haha k, would a video suffice?
I don't have anyone to drop with to test this, so would a video in academy be sufficient?

Also, you correcting my spelling - the irony

You would if you were ever on TS

And most of the time im posting from my cellphone that has a tiny keyboard.. so the "fat fingering" happens time to time.

[Y E O N N E]

Grus, on 10 December 2018 - 06:12 AM, said:

The video did help. And as i was watching i think i have a soloution that dosnt require a hit box change. A smaller mech. The VE is the same size of a AWS. If we could just make the mech smaller that would in turn make the hitboxes smaller.

Shadowhawk says: PREACH IT!

[Grus]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 December 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

Shadowhawk says: PREACH IT!

Like i said earlier there are a lot of mechs with this same issue. Add to that the ability to "twist off damage" just amplified the issue. Now that dosnt mean we need to get rid of twisting BY NO MEANS! just saying it does show the issues with mech sizes and damage models.

Edited by Grus, 10 December 2018 - 09:41 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 December 2018 - 08:50 AM, said:

Shadowhawk says: PREACH IT!

What's funny is the Shadowhawk was written off as DOA before it arrived because it was deemed too large. However it turned out to be exceptional with its thin profile and head level ballistics. The VEagle should have been similarly good inspite of the meta having shifted away from poptarting. However it's just slightly large enough, with wonky enough hardpoint placement, to entirely knacker the 'Mechs usefulness as anything more than a back line support. As soon as someone notices you, they are going to quickly isolate your components, or if you're Jackal - shoot your arse off of your face

[Tesunie]

From what I saw in the posted video:
Yes, the back does seem to be able to be shot from the front. No, I don't believe it to be an "easy shot", as it's a rather tiny spot to be purposefully aiming for. If you actually aimed for it on a moving target, most of your damage is likely to miss completely.

If you are taking rear damage from the front, I'm more likely to chalk it up to pure luck on your opponents side than their skill at aiming for those tiny spaces. I get rear shots from the front all the time in my Champion... and a few other mechs. I don't think anyone is intentionally using a hit box issue to intentionally aim for those said locations.

HOWEVER, I am not going to say those hit boxes can't/shouldn't be adjusted. There is a good case here for their adjustment, though I would rather more work be look into how such a change may effect back shots. It could be more detrimental to adjust that hit box, as it might make more back shots turn into front shots as it may actually be easier to shoot the front hit box from the back if it was changed.

I have too many questions, not enough answers. Though I would have loved a Vapor Eagle, I could not afford it for pre-release. It looks like a good mech, and from what I've seen of it, it seems to perform well.

[Jackal Noble]

Check your inbox

[Grayson Dillinger]

You are arguably hitting a back corner so, by definition, you ARE hitting the back. By saying that you shouldnt be getting rear damage unless shot from the rear would be like saying you shouldnt get front damage unless shot from the front. Go to the rear and shoot the front corner of the same pod. You will get front damage, not rear. Even though you are shooting from the rear. No "wonky" hitboxes here to me.

[Jackal Noble]

Grayson Dillinger, on 10 December 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

You are arguably hitting a back corner so, by definition, you ARE hitting the back. By saying that you shouldnt be getting rear damage unless shot from the rear would be like saying you shouldnt get front damage unless shot from the front. Go to the rear and shoot the front corner of the same pod. You will get front damage, not rear. Even though you are shooting from the rear. No "wonky" hitboxes here to me.

I'm not disputing your logic on that concept Grayson, but compared to the other hit box orientations of similar profiled mechs in game with protruding side torsos, the VE is undermined somewhat from this vulnerability. If you would like to see how back armor/frontal armor is allocated on other, similar mechs profiled mechs, I will gladly provide that for you.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 10 December 2018 - 11:04 AM.

[RickySpanish]

Grayson Dillinger, on 10 December 2018 - 10:39 AM, said:

You are arguably hitting a back corner so, by definition, you ARE hitting the back. By saying that you shouldnt be getting rear damage unless shot from the rear would be like saying you shouldnt get front damage unless shot from the front. Go to the rear and shoot the front corner of the same pod. You will get front damage, not rear. Even though you are shooting from the rear. No "wonky" hitboxes here to me.

The purpose of front/rear differentiation is for players to make the choice on how well to protect against attacks from opponents they are facing, or from those they are not. Being able to hit both sections at the same time breaks this mechanic, which every other 'Mech adheres to. By definition, that is wonky.

[Grus]

RickySpanish, on 10 December 2018 - 09:43 AM, said:

What's funny is the Shadowhawk was written off as DOA before it arrived because it was deemed too large. However it turned out to be exceptional with its thin profile and head level ballistics. The VEagle should have been similarly good inspite of the meta having shifted away from poptarting. However it's just slightly large enough, with wonky enough hardpoint placement, to entirely knacker the 'Mechs usefulness as anything more than a back line support. As soon as someone notices you, they are going to quickly isolate your components, or if you're Jackal - shoot your arse off of your face

Or take tke legs *cough cough*

[Tesunie]

Two for two matches so far, I have noticed some possible cases where front shots dealt damage to the back. It was only small amounts here or there, but it was noticeable. I don't think it's broken the chassis, but it could possibly use to be looked into in my opinion.

If you were one to place little to no armor on your back, I could see this being a more serious problem. As I typically place around 5-7 points of armor on my back, it wasn't as much of an issue for myself. If an AC20 (or some such) shot managed to hit that magic spot though... That could turn the tide of the match (for me) drastically.

I stand by my original statement where it isn't exactly a huge problem, but that it is a problem and could use to be looked into in some manner. Still would like to do some testing about possibly shooting the front armor from the back, which can be problematic as well but normally less so.