769 replies to this topic

[ArmyOfWon]

Decoherent, on 11 November 2012 - 05:34 AM, said:

Largest I'm seeing in the MechLab is 340.

Thanks. Looks like even though the stock engine is smaller than other Cicadas, the engine cap is still the same! Good to know!

[BOOMLegShot]

So if I'm reading this right, there's absolutely no reason to ever use small pulse lasers?

For the same tonnage and crit slots you could just get a regular medium laser. Triple the range, more dps, less heat, and even more damage for duration you keep the beam on target.

Do I have that right?

[Legionn]

ArmyOfWon, on 10 November 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

Can anyone tell me the following information?

Largest Engine for the YLW?
Largest Engine for the Cicada 3C?
Largest Engine for the Raven 3L?

From Statlab:
YLW = 280 max
Cicada 3C = 340 max
Raven 3L = 295 max

[ArmyOfWon]

Legionn, on 11 November 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

From Statlab: YLW = 280 max Cicada 3C = 340 max Raven 3L = 295 max

Thanks, I didn't even think to check Statlab.

Looks like I've stumbled across the max engine size calculations to use

http://mwowiki.org/w...p?title=Engines

Thanks for everyone's input so far!

Edited by ArmyOfWon, 11 November 2012 - 06:54 PM.

[One Medic Army]

I've put together graphs and tables of free tonnage (after frame, engine and required Heatsinks) versus speed for all possible mech tonnages (20ton thru 100ton) in both endosteel and standard varieties. I put it together to help myself theorycraft, and was wondering if anyone else was interested?
I use it for figuring out what tonnage of mech has the most free tonnage at any given speed.

[edit] Here's the raw data as a google spreadsheet. I'll put the graphs up somewhere as images if people want, google docs doesn't like them.
Tab1 is a speed for given engine and mech weight chart.
Tab2 is the free tonnage by speed data for Standard structure.
Tab3 is for Endosteel.
Here is a link you can download an excel version with the graphs and proper formatting (mostly) from. File->Download.

Edited by One Medic Army, 12 November 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Teirdome]

I apologize if I missed this explanation in a previous comment, but how are the EHS values calculated for Laser weapons?

For all other weapon types, it is essentially HPS * 10 where HPS = Heat / Cooldown.

However, for laser weapons it looks to be Heat / Cooldown * 10, not HPS. HPS for Lasers is Heat / (Cooldown + Duration). I think this error is skewing the perceived Laser effectiveness lower.

[Tuhalu]

BOOMLegShot, on 11 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

So if I'm reading this right, there's absolutely no reason to ever use small pulse lasers?

For the same tonnage and crit slots you could just get a regular medium laser. Triple the range, more dps, less heat, and even more damage for duration you keep the beam on target.

Do I have that right?

It's actually not quite so cut and dried.

There are some errors in the table to start with. A Small Pulse Laser produces 10.9 heat and 10.9 damage in 10 seconds. A Medium Laser produces 12.5 damage and 10 heat per 10 seconds.

The advantage that a SPL has is that it does all 3 damage in a 0.5 second duration beam, while the ML does 5 damage in a 1 second duration beam. Over the 0.5 second burst of a SPL, a SPL does 3 damage and a ML does 2.5.

Still doesn't sound like a lot right? Well, that ML can only be used every 4 seconds. You can use a SPL every 2.75 seconds. This means you are now firing more often and hitting for more damage.

This is important against very fast mechs who you will only have under your laser beam for a fraction of a second. Assuming you get ~0.5 seconds of beam time on target per shot, the ML does 6.25 damage over 10 seconds and the SPL does 11 damage still.

The "niche" of the SPL is in fast light-vs-fast mech combat. Both of you are jinking and swerving like crazy. In that situation, a fast light mech pilot will put more damage out with small pulse lasers than with medium lasers.

It also edges out the MPL in cases where the range isn't a big deal. The MPL has double the range, but only shoots every 3.75 seconds and has a 0.75 second beam duration. In that 0.5 second max beam on target situation, it does 13.3 heat and only puts out 10.67 damage. That's compared to 1 SPL on 10.9 heat and 10.9 damage remember. The MPL takes 2 ton and 2 crits, so it can be hard to justify putting it in there instead of just having 2 SPL.

[Tuhalu]

ArmyOfWon, on 11 November 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Thanks. Looks like even though the stock engine is smaller than other Cicadas, the engine cap is still the same! Good to know!

That's because the maximum engine rating on a mech is the lowest of (original engine * weight class multiplier) and (mech weight * 8.6) rounded down to the nearest 5 rating. With the 1.3 multiplier for medium mechs, even a Cicada variant with a 280 stock engine will find themselves limited to (mech weight * 8.6).

Once the absolute max speed restriction is lifted, there will be a clear difference between variants.

BTW, as Teirdome pointed out, the Effective Heat Sink values for all Lasers are incorrect.

EHS = (Cooldown + Beam Duration)/10*Heat

NOT

EHS = Cooldown/10*Heat

Edited by Tuhalu, 12 November 2012 - 01:24 PM.

[ArmyOfWon]

Tuhalu, on 12 November 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

That's because the maximum engine rating on a mech is the lowest of (original engine * weight class multiplier) and (mech weight * 8.6) rounded down to the nearest 5 rating. With the 1.3 multiplier for medium mechs, even a Cicada variant with a 280 stock engine will find themselves limited to (mech weight * 8.6).

Once the absolute max speed restriction is lifted, there will be a clear difference between variants.

BTW, as Teirdome pointed out, the Effective Heat Sink values for all Lasers are incorrect.

EHS = (Cooldown + Beam Duration)/10*Heat

NOT

EHS = Cooldown/10*Heat

Yes, I apologize for this. I was mistaken in my EHS calculations for lasers (I was under the assumption that the heat would only cool off after the heat had been generated, as opposed to cooling off during the beam duration)

I will update the sheet, send it to Ohm, and have him update the post here.

Although, on another note, in my testing of that heat generation/cool off for lasers, I believe I have found that Medium Pulse lasers are generating too much heat since the Nov 6th Patch. More on that as it develops.

BOOMLegShot, on 11 November 2012 - 02:31 PM, said:

So if I'm reading this right, there's absolutely no reason to ever use small pulse lasers?

For the same tonnage and crit slots you could just get a regular medium laser. Triple the range, more dps, less heat, and even more damage for duration you keep the beam on target.

Do I have that right?

SPL generate 3 heat, compared to 4 for ML. Also, the beam is only half of the duration (.5 seconds for SPL, 1 second for ML), so you have to focus your fire for a shorter period of time. During the time of the beam, you're actually doing more DPS than the ML (6 DPS for SPL, 5 DPS for ML), but over the period of beam and cooldown, you are doing a bit less DPS overall.

Edited by ArmyOfWon, 12 November 2012 - 02:23 PM.

[r4plez]

ppc no longer have 90m min rage, i noticed that this dissapeared from ohm's weapon xls stats

[Legionn]

r4plez, on 12 November 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

ppc no longer have 90m min rage, i noticed that this dissapeared from ohm's weapon xls stats

This was previously discussed. The files still say PPCs have a 90m minimum range however enough people have reported dealing damage in the <90m range that it was removed from the spreadsheet.

I personally believe that lag is playing a factor for those dealing damage with PPCs under 90m where the mechs may appear to be within 90m on the screen but according to the server are farther apart than 90m so damage is dealt.

[zudukai]

Legionn, on 12 November 2012 - 06:53 PM, said:

This was previously discussed. The files still say PPCs have a 90m minimum range however enough people have reported dealing damage in the <90m range that it was removed from the spreadsheet.

I personally believe that lag is playing a factor for those dealing damage with PPCs under 90m where the mechs may appear to be within 90m on the screen but according to the server are farther apart than 90m so damage is dealt.

it could even be a taper, however, there was this one commando once in river city with naught but a PPC that i cornered in the underpass and he did squat to me standing in his face, so i cut him down with my dragon's lone medium laser, needless to say, we both were standing toe to toe and he was doing NIL.

*edit* this was a patch and a hotfix ago.

Edited by zudukai, 12 November 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[ArmyOfWon]

zudukai, on 12 November 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

it could even be a taper, however, there was this one commando once in river city with naught but a PPC that i cornered in the underpass and he did squat to me standing in his face, so i cut him down with my dragon's lone medium laser, needless to say, we both were standing toe to toe and he was doing NIL.

*edit* this was a patch and a hotfix ago.

As I understand it, PPCs fall of linearly under 90m, so if you were cornering him at <20 meters, he was only doing 2 damage per shot (0.6 dps fired continuously, but he would overheat soon enough, so his dps would be even lower than that). Even less if you were closer.

[Arathena]

This is so awesome! Thank you very much

[Cyclops86]

The max DPS figures for LRM's have not been updated for their new damage values.

The correct DPS figures are:

LRM20: 7.16

LRM15: 6

LRM10: 4.53

LRM5: 2.62

[Kilgore]

Do you know when we'll get some hardpoint information on the Cataphract?

[Calmon]

Why are the HPS and the EHS values not always 10 times as much?

From logic point if something generate 1 HPS (heat per second) 10 EHS (effective heatsinks) should cancel this out exactly because 1 heatsink cool it down for 0.1 per second.

So for example AC2 gives 2 HPS and needs 20 EHS = fine and correct.
It also fine for the rest of AC

But why is it different for LBX? It has 0.8 HPS and so it should need 8 EHP but it only states 6

Same for most energy:
Medium Lasers generate 1 HPS and needs 14 EHS, why? Shouldn't it be just 10?

Can somebody clarify it for me? Thanks.

[Legionn]

Kilgore, on 14 November 2012 - 02:10 PM, said:

Do you know when we'll get some hardpoint information on the Cataphract?

Ohm already updated the excel file with it but here's a quick reference.

Cataphract (Heavy - 70 Tons)

-----------------LA-------LT-----CT------RT--------RA--------H
CTF-1X-------1E------1E------------1E+1B------2E---------
CTF-2X-------2M------1E------------1E+1B-----1E----------
CTF-3D------1E-------1E------------1E+1B---1E+1B-------------XL 280
CTF-3L-------1E-------1E------------1E+1B-----2E--------------- XL 280, DHS
CTF-4X-------2B---------------1E------------------2B-------1M

[Hauser]

Is there a list of weapon health values?

[Spirit of the Wolf]

Hauser, on 16 November 2012 - 03:09 PM, said:

Is there a list of weapon health values?

Yeah. The ItemStats.xml file has the health list of the weapons.
Every weapon has 10 health as of right now.
And I mean every weapon.