109 replies to this topic

[Jackal Noble]

Der Geisterbaer, on 17 December 2018 - 10:38 PM, said:

Nothing but the remainder of whatever level of "common sense" they have left.


It's not as if any clan mech in general or the PIR-1 in particular is actually affected by the current clan machine gun spread to unbearable degrees or is it?

Clan machine guns on average, take longer to crit out weapons due to the spread and whatever hidden fancy balance mechanics are in place relative to IS machine guns, despite their major drawback being that they are .5 tons heavier. It's only nullified when you enter the PIR. Every other Clan mech can't overcome that balance mechanic or even close. There's more to it than meets the eye. or what you 'see' in mech lab. Perhaps that is the problem, too many wanna-be chiefs that have only eyes and no brains.

Edited by Jackal Noble, 17 December 2018 - 10:48 PM.

[General Solo]

Racerxintegra2k, on 16 December 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

Go look at my stats, i can aim just fine. They are just broken. Dropping massive amounts of damage and it doesn't even register.

Isnt that a hit reg problem

When fish pirahana goes down fine.

Same thing happens wid the Commando just no 12 machine guns, no one complains about commando.

Dunno fish aint OP when I pilot it.

Maybe those pilots are just good at fish

[Jay Leon Hart]

Racerxintegra2k, on 17 December 2018 - 08:41 AM, said:

The one month i got the competitive itch i played only the PIR-1 and reached 98.xx% on jarls list( on my clan alt).

Does this alt have a name?

Grus, on 17 December 2018 - 10:57 AM, said:

Let me summarise; the PIR can be every effective, in a very small window. But it can be very DEAD in a much larger one. If this was reversed then id say people theres a dog in that fight... but its not. So thats where i see it as very balanced and or a " one trick pony"

Not over powered.

Aye, same as HGauss builds. Both common forum boogey men, both pretty easy to deal with *most* of the time.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Mcgral18, on 17 December 2018 - 03:35 PM, said:

Nothing stopping PGI from giving them the same DPS/ton, if they so desired.

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 03:40 PM, said:

sweet, then they could switch the mg spread back to normal

1. Give IS MGs 50% RoF buff
2. Restore Clan MG CoF

[Racerxintegra2k]

Jay Leon Hart, on 18 December 2018 - 12:55 AM, said:

Does this alt have a name?

Merlin Kell, i believe it was august when i used the pir-1.

Edited by Racerxintegra2k, 18 December 2018 - 06:28 AM.

[Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie]

yes, a piranha is good. especially in QP.
then again, anything can be good there.

no, it's not OP. if it where, it
a) would turn up more often in QP, and the light-que wouldn't be the smallest one as usual.

b.) you'd see it in faction all the time; and here I'll make a point; if it were really that good, you'd see waves of it.
just as you see waves of certain heavies and assaults on BOTH SIDES which I won't mention here by name, cause nerfbat-fear not to mention a certain IS-40t mech that is so damn good that you SEE it in waves, ALL THE TIME, and it's getting tiresome (yes, nerf my assassins. not glad about it, but needs to be done ...).

you don't see Pir-waves.


sorry bud, but your "fear of the pir" is a little too much. no, I don't enjoy being trashed by one either. but in 9 out of 10 times that happens I'm already wrecked anyway - in the 1 out of 10 I maaay be out of position and have to blame myself for being too far off the team.

Edited by Teenage Mutant Ninja Urbie, 18 December 2018 - 06:39 AM.

[jjm1]

Inspired me to make a vid from my favorite historical documents.

Who doesn't like watching Piranhas die in the opening salvo.

I included a Flea end game kill for good measure.

[K O Z A K]

that's a weird looking flea

[Y E O N N E]

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Clan machine guns on average, take longer to crit out weapons due to the spread and whatever hidden fancy balance mechanics are in place relative to IS machine guns, despite their major drawback being that they are .5 tons heavier. It's only nullified when you enter the PIR. Every other Clan mech can't overcome that balance mechanic or even close. There's more to it than meets the eye. or what you 'see' in mech lab. Perhaps that is the problem, too many wanna-be chiefs that have only eyes and no brains.

You keep saying this and not once has it been anything more than a placebo effect. What are you doing, trying to MG-hose targets down at 250 meters or something? With any of my MG boats, Clan or IS, equipment goes poof almost instantly on any target with open structure and no crit chance reduction quirks. MLX, PIR, BJ-A, FLE-19, FLE-FA, JVN-11F, it doesn't matter.

In fact, the FLE-FA and BJ-A are anecdotally the worst at critting, taking forever to blow out relatively hard-to-crit lasers relative to the rest. The best crit machines I have are the JVN-11F and the PIR; the JVN is running HMGs, so the high base damage turns into larger crits. The PIR is the same, but achieving that high base damage with more MGs instead of bigger MGs.

And even if IS MGs did have a useful level of extra crit (they don't), I would trade that any day for being able to run twice as many for the weight or for being able to run bigger lasers. Being able to run 3x MedLas or SPL on the Fireant would make it respectable.

[So You Say]

jjm1, on 18 December 2018 - 09:55 AM, said:

Inspired me to make a vid from my favorite historical documents.

Who doesn't like watching Piranhas die in the opening salvo.

I included a Flea end game kill for good measure.

So your evidence is PIR dies after being focused by three mechs. That's some story. Folks you heard it here first. Dual gause plus missles plus laser fire on a mech that is running for its life is effective. Who would have figured.

Look at Larsh going fishing at 1:42 into the video. Does the PIR go down easy?

Edited by So You Say, 18 December 2018 - 10:41 AM.

[jjm1]

Hazeclaw, on 18 December 2018 - 10:01 AM, said:

that's a weird looking flea

Ok it's a Locust. I thought the Flea had practically overwritten their existence.

[K O Z A K]

So You Say, on 18 December 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

So your evidence is PIR dies after being focused by three mechs. That's some story. Folks you heard it here first. Dual gause plus missles plus laser fire on a mech that is running for its life is effective. Who would have figured.

Look at Larsh going fishing at 1:42 into the video. Does the PIR go down easy?

one of the worst weapons to use against it, at the worst possible range so he landed like 10% of the burns on it

Some story, if you don't hit mechs with your weapons they don't die. Who would have figured

[jjm1]

So You Say, on 18 December 2018 - 10:36 AM, said:

Look at Larsh going fishing at 1:42 into the video. Does the PIR go down easy?

Yes this certainly raises an interesting question, should a Piranha go down easy if you miss it?

[Der Geisterbaer]

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Clan machine guns on average, take longer to crit out weapons due to the spread and whatever hidden fancy balance mechanics are in place relative to IS machine guns,

I'm well aware that clan machine guns indeed do take longer to crit out weapons but I have my doubts that their spread - which so far was the thing I commented on - is the important element there.

Why? Simple: Within optimal range under perfect firing conditions (target and shooter standing still) the clan machine gun's spread is pretty much unnoticable -> You'll pretty much hit the zone you're aiming at with the exception of the head. You have to go outside optimal range in order to really see a substantial difference in spread when comparing IS vs. Clan machine guns.

Once movement comes into play both IS and Clan machine guns' inherent spread becomes negliable compared to movement induced spread and / or limitations created by things like the agility nerf that the "main offender" PIR-1 got as a result of similar complaints as we're seeing in this thread by the OP.

I'm pretty confident that the real difference you're seeing there comes from another balancing aspect:

Clan machine gun:
spread: 0.84
crit multiplier -> 7.0
crit chance increase -> 0.03,0.015,0.005

IS machine gun:
spread: 0.6
crit multiplier -> 9.0
crit chance increase -> 0.06,0.03,0.01

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

despite their major drawback being that they are .5 tons heavier.

Mainly blaming the differences on spread in the comparison is still a little disingenuous in my opinion ... just like suggesting that an identical DPS per ton would somehow be balanced if that were to mean that the difference in spread is negated at the same time ... and then there'd still be the issue of what a doubled damage value (xor RoF) on the IS machine gun would have as consequences on many more IS mechs when compared to Clan mechs that aren't machine gun PIRs, MLXs or ACH (as rare as the latter ones are anyway).

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

It's only nullified when you enter the PIR. Every other Clan mech can't overcome that balance mechanic or even close. There's more to it than meets the eye. or what you 'see' in mech lab.

There's indeed more to that than meets the eye - even without Transformers involved - but I still have this "hunch" that the difference in spread is the least important aspect overall.

Jackal Noble, on 17 December 2018 - 10:43 PM, said:

Perhaps that is the problem, too many wanna-be chiefs that have only eyes and no brains.

Does that include yourself?

[Jackal Noble]

Sure, myself included

[So You Say]

Hazeclaw, on 18 December 2018 - 10:48 AM, said:

one of the worst weapons to use against it, at the worst possible range so he landed like 10% of the burns on it

Some story, if you don't hit mechs with your weapons they don't die. Who would have figured

You need to look again. He was able to hold his laser burn on target even while the piranha was moving. Another interesting story. Just shoot the piranha at mid range with the right kind of weapons. Oh wait, that is not how piranhas engage. Guess you'll need to come up with some other reason to stay on your high horse.

Edited by So You Say, 18 December 2018 - 03:12 PM.

[Jun Watarase]

I just did a match on mining collective. A piranha was spraying MG fire from behind a corner, then he ran out into my LOS. I sprayed a burst of UAC 20 fire at him, a few of the shells hit, and he lost a side torso and started to run.

They are REALLY lightly armored. Even if you are spreading damage everywhere, it dies fast. Especially true if you are using IS MPLs, 0.6s duration murders clan lights.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Jun Watarase, on 18 December 2018 - 04:41 PM, said:

I just did a match on mining collective. A piranha was spraying MG fire from behind a corner, then he ran out into my LOS. I sprayed a burst of UAC 20 fire at him, a few of the shells hit, and he lost a side torso and started to run.

They are REALLY lightly armored. Even if you are spreading damage everywhere, it dies fast. Especially true if you are using IS MPLs, 0.6s duration murders clan lights.

I one shot a fresh piranha last night on Tera therma with my warhawk. Didn't like 3 large pulse 2 med pulse.

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 04:45 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

KingCobra, on 16 December 2018 - 12:28 PM, said:

There is only the one Piranha that boats what 12 machine guns? that is a real problem the rest are just mediocre to play.
But the real problem with the one Piranha is when there in groups of 2 or more like when I was playing FP yesterday they basically just appeared out of no where when radar said it was clear no mechs and standing still no targets around with seismic.

So these 2 players ether has stealth armor or they were speed Whacking the game as they took out 6 heavy mechs with almost no damage I wont give these two players names but they were reported to PGI by half of our teams players.

So if PGI fixed just the one piranha model with massive critical damage and got rid of the stealth armor for lights or made them more detectable it would be better for MWO gameplay.

And PS PGI Please fix it so players cannot Speed Whack in your game?

LOL. More hackusations from everyones favourite hackusationist.

If you improve your aim, the PIR is very - VERY easy to kill.

Especially as the PIR doesn't even have stealth armour

Edited by justcallme A S H, 18 December 2018 - 05:10 PM.

[K O Z A K]

So You Say, on 18 December 2018 - 02:39 PM, said:

You need to look again. He was able to hold his laser burn on target even while the piranha was moving. Another interesting story. Just shoot the piranha at mid range with the right kind of weapons. Oh wait, that is not how piranhas engage. Guess you'll need to come up with some other reason to stay on your high horse.

ok, I looked again, the only burn that he kind of held after missing at first 50-75%? was the one that went into the arm at 1:30. We might have a different definition of holding a burn

I can see now why you're having trouble with piranhas though. What high horse? For some reason just about the only weapon that I have trouble killing piranhas with is at close range with ER lasers, and that basically means I was already beaten at positioning, at which point I do tend to go all "Help" to my team over comms, and seconds later all is well