152 replies to this topic

[justcallme A S H]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2018 - 08:57 PM, said:

Then advocate to fix the damn think there not being taking them out of the game so they need to be fixed. If your going to start advocating to nerf them in to unless don't bother lets fix them.

Have you read any of the last 6 pages or my posts in ANY of the threads you've quoted me in?

Back out the 2018 buffs.

Said it a dozen times. That is the way to fix it. They won't be useless, they won't have silly DPS anymore either.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 18 December 2018 - 09:03 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

So no one wants to answer my question, and the if I'm to guess the TL;DR:

• new player comes in saying LRMs are unfair from what he's seen
  
• people who play LRMs exclusively tell him he should stay in cover and not stay in the open
  
• people who play a variety of weapons including LRMs say that things like target decay and mass LRMs will kill you regardless of cover, and you only need to poke once to shoot to lose your trade - ergo, it won't help
  
• People who like LRMs say they don't need more nerfs or a re-work since LRMs are a Battletech weapon and this shouldn't be a fair competitive/twitch game
  
• Arguing continues with the crux of the conversation being about lore over gameplay but never addressing that its less to do with LRMs and more to do with one side wanting the game to be casual fun and the other to be a competitive shooter

Well when Mechwarrior 5 comes out I guess none of us will have anything to worry about, because the servers will shut down for MWO and Mechwarrior 5 will be PVE only.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lawrence Elsa, on 18 December 2018 - 09:10 PM, said:

So no one wants to answer my question, and the if I'm to guess the TL;DR:

• new player comes in saying LRMs are unfair from what he's seen
  
• people who play LRMs exclusively tell him he should stay in cover and not stay in the open
  
• people who play a variety of weapons including LRMs say that things like target decay and mass LRMs will kill you regardless of cover, and you only need to poke once to shoot to lose your trade - ergo, it won't help
  
• People who like LRMs say they don't need more nerfs or a re-work since LRMs are a Battletech weapon and this shouldn't be a fair competitive/twitch game
  
• Arguing continues with the crux of the conversation being about lore over gameplay but never addressing that its less to do with LRMs and more to do with one side wanting the game to be casual fun and the other to be a competitive shooter

Well when Mechwarrior 5 comes out I guess none of us will have anything to worry about, because the servers will shut down for MWO and Mechwarrior 5 will be PVE only.

Who said anything about MWO shutting down? That's not happening LMAO too many whales;)

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 09:21 PM.

[Lawrence Elsa]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2018 - 09:21 PM, said:

Who said anything about MWO shutting down? That's not happening LMAO too many whales;)

If PGI is willing to C&D Living Legends I'm pretty sure they're gonna shut down MWO in the hopes of channeling players over to MW5. If there really are that many whales out of the 600 average players still playing then I guess it would continue, but I doubt they'd bother if we're already at a point where mechpacks and occasional balance passes are all we get.

Here's to hoping though, since I at least enjoy this game

[Appogee]

The NARC-LRM combo is making most FP matches on Polar and Caustic fairly boring.

Then again, the ERL pokefests on those maps weren't much better, either.

I'll just show myself out now...

[The pessimistic optimist]

Lawrence Elsa, on 18 December 2018 - 09:31 PM, said:

If PGI is willing to C&D Living Legends I'm pretty sure they're gonna shut down MWO in the hopes of channeling players over to MW5. If there really are that many whales out of the 600 average players still playing then I guess it would continue, but I doubt they'd bother if we're already at a point where mechpacks and occasional balance passes are all we get.

Here's to hoping though, since I at least enjoy this game

There not shutting down a game that's making them loads of money ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oh your serious?

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 09:37 PM.

[Phoenix 72]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

There not shutting down a game that's making them loads of money ha ha ha ha ha ha ha oh your serious?

I am wondering what you are basing that on. MWO seems to have something like 28K unique players per month. Let us assume that only players that actually play are also spending money. Employees cost money. The company I work for calculates with an average cost of 500 EUR per day per employee for facility, electricity, computers, taxes and salary. At an average of 22 days per month, they would need to spend 11K EUR per month per employee. Plus costs for the Battletech license.

There is no way that a game with this few players can make "loads of money"... Or you have a really slow threshold for what you consider "loads of money". I work for a Bank. We make billions per year. And people are complaining that we are not efficient enough.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Darakor Stormwind, on 18 December 2018 - 10:14 PM, said:

I am wondering what you are basing that on. MWO seems to have something like 28K unique players per month. Let us assume that only players that actually play are also spending money. Employees cost money. The company I work for calculates with an average cost of 500 EUR per day per employee for facility, electricity, computers, taxes and salary. At an average of 22 days per month, they would need to spend 11K EUR per month per employee. Plus costs for the Battletech license.

There is no way that a game with this few players can make "loads of money"... Or you have a really slow threshold for what you consider "loads of money". I work for a Bank. We make billions per year. And people are complaining that we are not efficient enough.

Prices mech are not cheap and whales buy mech packs also not cheap there fine;)
https://mwomercs.com/clans

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 10:46 PM.

[Khobai]

I cant imagine very many whales are still spending money on this game.

My guess is this game is just barely scraping by.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 10:51 PM, said:

I cant imagine very many whales are still spending money on this game.

My guess is this game is just barely scraping by.

Yea they keep put out packs because no one buys them and they made the money to upgrade to Unreal engine? All sighs point to there fine. Also you pointed out how small the community is so that also mean there server maintenance is low. So whats there big cost keeping the servers up?

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 11:02 PM.

[Khobai]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2018 - 10:59 PM, said:

Yea they keep put out packs because no one buys them and they made the money to upgrade to Unreal engine? All sighs point to there fine. Also you pointed out how small the community is so that also mean there server maintenance is low. So whats there big cost keeping the servers up?

the big cost is salaries. linked in says PGI has 63 employees. average salary at PGI seems to be in the $40K-$50K range. That means PGI needs to make 3 million a year just to pay salaries. This game is not making 3 million a year. Not off 600 average players... I just dont see how MWO can possibly be making enough money to support PGI at this point.

theyre gonna need to sell an awful lot of copies of MW5 lol.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2018 - 11:19 PM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 11:09 PM, said:

the big cost is salaries. linked in says PGI has 63 employees. average salary at PGI seems to be in the $40K-$50K range. That means PGI needs to make 3 million a year just to pay salaries. This game is not making 3 million a year. Not off 600 average players...

So they pay there employees better buy shutting down one of there cash streams that has a low maintenance cost? You fail at logic!

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 11:16 PM.

[Khobai]

SirSmokes, on 18 December 2018 - 11:16 PM, said:

So they pay there employees better buy shutting down one of there cash streams that has a low maintenance cost? You fail at logic!

I never said they should shut down MWO. I said its inevitable that they will have to.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 11:18 PM, said:

I never said they should shut down MWO. I said its inevitable that they will have to.

Yea and one day our sun will burn out your point?
https://www.google.c...263.rKBDiA7kyFk

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 11:21 PM.

[Khobai]

My point was that I dont think MW5 will sell enough copies to keep MWO going.

And PGI has done nothing to turn the player population crisis around.

Theyre in full self destruct mode and its not going to take 5 billion years like our sun.

Edited by Khobai, 19 December 2018 - 02:17 AM.

[The pessimistic optimist]

Khobai, on 18 December 2018 - 11:24 PM, said:

My point was that I dont think MW5 will sell enough copies to keep MWO going.

And PGI has done nothing to turn the player population crisis around.

Theyre in full self destruct mode.

That makes more senses. But I think your under estimating how much whales spend. Most free to play games a small number of big spender keep them in profit.

Edited by SirSmokes, 18 December 2018 - 11:43 PM.

[Major Major Catch 22]

This is the best thread

There is absolutely no way I would get rid of lurms as a developer or CEO because they are so good at creating traffic.
Also I would pay more attention to the big data of how many new players convert to paying players play lurms-- its a no brainer if it makes them money this is good for all, keeps the game going.

And i would love to have streak lurms (ducks for cover) to counter ATM"S (ducks for cover) as it would create so much interest and angst.

Having said all that, I love that ppl have to adapt to new game play instead of old metta which gets boring (IMO)

Good going pgi, pls keep changes coming IMO dont worry about balance as warfare is all about asymetric min/max and how ppl adapt to a fluid environment

Anyone who whinges - suck it up snowflake ! its WAR !

XP

[Phoolan Devi]

I think they upped ammo-count because of comp play since a lot of lore builds have LRMs in them. Correct me if I'm wrong.

To the general name and shame of lurmers.

First off I find it quite amusinng when good players complain about LRMs....it's kind of a contradiction to me!

Second, yes, as a bad player you can do better with LRMs than you would do otherwise, but as a good player you do worse with LRMs than you would do with other weapon systems.

Third, this whole e-sport nonsense wasted way too many resources which could've been used better. PGI should've endorsed user created leagues (whatever they are called, I couldn't care less) instead of going for this stupid e-sport route.

Fourth, the lore-tard has the same right to an opinion as the tryhard twitch meta-tard. None is better even if the stats of the lore-tard are lower because of using lore-builds.


To round things up, I have no problem with LRMs in the current state, not with playing them nor playing against them.

[Kroete]

justcallme A S H, on 18 December 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

The issue is though after Heat, Velocity and Ammo buffs - LRMs have gone from a OK place to a stupid one. This is why the Artemis change and tighter reticule was brought in. One was to reduce the effectiveness on SSRM against lights (and LRM in general) but it produed another effect I don't think PGI forsaw - Artemis became wasted tonnage on a LRM equipped mech. So what did people do as a result of the Artemis change?

Take it off and add more DHS. This is again further increasing the sustained and burst DPS of the weapon because you can basically alpha a cLRM60-80 and put down 80pts of DMG from basically 950m and just eat the ghost heat for 3 alpha's

You dont used lrms?
I tried using my lrm60 svn after the patches,
but after some matches i get that artemis is not the tonnage worth it anymore (artemis was for the locktime with los, not the spread).
But more heatsinks? The lrm60 has only heatproblems if i fired allthemissiles a few times in row and we get a heatreduction, so no heatsinks.
More ammo? I removed some tons after the patch and it still have more then enough.
So what did i do with the tons i have left from ammo and artemis? More tubes!

justcallme A S H, on 18 December 2018 - 05:53 PM, said:

OR

You can alternate first and simply win the attrition of armour war and fire, almost, indefinately.

The crux of it is if LRMs received none of the buffs they have in 2018 they would be fine right now as they were largely fine in 2017. Then we also wouldn't need PGI nuking Artemis, angle of flight or any other ways to try and bring them back inline as well as hitting NARC extremely heavily. Have any of the above de-buffs worked? No. Not one bit.

All the buffs and nerfs gave you:
More ammo (and tubes) and less heat for spamming.
Less arc to lock at low ranges, but changed nothing on longrange locks,
less flightpathcontrol (bending) at low ranges, but no change at long range, you need to stay futher away to clear obstacles.
Increased locktime means i got 2 alphas until my lrms got a lock and hit at los or staying back and get no alpha back, so stay out of los.

All the patches lead to a nerf for direct fire but a big buff for indirect, skilless, massspamming.
Just the old lrms (befor the first arc-nerf) with a little more speed would have be enough to make them ok.

Appogee, on 18 December 2018 - 09:36 PM, said:

The NARC-LRM combo is making most FP matches on Polar and Caustic fairly boring.

Then again, the ERL pokefests on those maps weren't much better, either.

I'll just show myself out now...

And did they change the 1 minute narc duration you get from some mechs with quirks?
No, you can now fire you 1 minute narc only every 7 seconds instead of 5, totaly missing the point again.

Edit: Lots of spelling

Edited by Kroete, 20 December 2018 - 03:05 AM.

[Chados]

And everyone who ever used LRMs tactically warned Chris that he was promoting mass spamming from halfway across the map and nerfing those using trick shots, LRM bending, sharing armor, and playing with the team. His response essentially was that LRMs are intended to be boated by assault turrets. So, working “as intended.”