60 replies to this topic

[Detergent II]

NUMBERZero1032, on 04 February 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Should have made it a feature to put any class of JJ onto any mech. God that would have been hilarious.

Problem is PGI didn't implement or balance JJs properly, so there'd be no reason to take any jet but the type IVs, as it puts out the same thrust performance as all the heavier jets at only half a ton.

Can we just get JJ buffs across the board and make them actually awesome to justify dropping tonnage and slots for them?

[Kamikaze Viking]

Just tested and I can Confirm that RACRO NO LONGER WORKS.

Well done PGI. Good job and in a relatively short timeframe.

[RickySpanish]

VonBruinwald, on 04 February 2019 - 03:15 PM, said:

Would you jump on the next Boeing if they said their fix "should" work...

Once *again*, if MWO were life or death and PGI was a huge company selling machines that kill hundreds of people when they fail, you would have a point. But they don't.

[D V Devnull]

NUMBERZero1032, on 04 February 2019 - 02:20 PM, said:

Should have made it a feature to put any class of JJ onto any mech. God that would have been hilarious.

Detergent II, on 04 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Problem is PGI didn't implement or balance JJs properly, so there'd be no reason to take any jet but the type IVs, as it puts out the same thrust performance as all the heavier jets at only half a ton.

Can we just get JJ buffs across the board and make them actually awesome to justify dropping tonnage and slots for them?

I've been tracking the JumpJets' collective Values a bit. PGI has made some differentiation between the different classes. The only annoyance now is not having a selection of options for your Mech, and being restricted on what you can use by your Tonnage. This actually sounds like a good idea, but it definitely has implications to check and handle, and problems in balancing to prevent.

However, exploiting an unintended increase in options needed to be closed for now. That would have let players who tripped on those options be able to run amok. I would rather that PGI released their own valid version.

~D. V. "sounds like a potentially interesting addition, but let's avoid exploit-grade things" Devnull

[TheCaptainJZ]

I sometimes use the word "should" when I close a issue ticket. Meaning, I think the problem's been solved, but there's a chance it's not, or something else is broken that I don't know about yet. Using this wording gives me a little wiggle room instead of saying an issue is absolutely solved and closed. I would feel bad if I were to say it's definitely fixed and the user reports that it's not. They may have tried a different case to reproduce the issue that wasn't initially disclosed or something. It's really just semantics.

[Phyrce]

Won't it be funny if the Piranha suddenly stops getting played so much. I sincerely doubt this macro was widely abused by Piranha players but still it would be amusing if this was another source of strife.

[Dee Eight]

Detergent II, on 04 February 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Problem is PGI didn't implement or balance JJs properly, so there'd be no reason to take any jet but the type IVs, as it puts out the same thrust performance as all the heavier jets at only half a ton.

It doesn't. Have you even read the actual values for thrust of the different classes of Jump jets. Everything is in KiloNewtons per second. They're right there in the mech lab details.

Class I = 220
Class II = 200
Class III = 200
Class IV = 120
Class V = 110

Thus...the Class IV is the second weakest of the five classes of jump jets. Replacing the Class Is of say a Highlander with Class IV's is nearly dropping the thrust in half, and thus also dropping your jump distance by the same amount.

[DisasterTheory]

Phyrce, on 04 February 2019 - 06:06 PM, said:

Won't it be funny if the Piranha suddenly stops getting played so much. I sincerely doubt this macro was widely abused by Piranha players but still it would be amusing if this was another source of strife.

This....

I wonder if this "exploit" has been around a lot longer than we know and that's how Piranha's and other mass machine gun equipt mechs were able to shred back armor so fast you didn't even have time to react. Many many times I fell victim to this thinking something just wasn't right about the fact that i didn't even get a chance to turn around before I was eliminated from the game while receiving no damage otherwise in that area prior to the attack from behind. I never run my back armor thin in mechs that are slow to react due to that fact so this always seemed out of place to me. My mediums and heavies will on occasion be stripped off most back armor to fortify the front but I never do this to any assault I own for obvious reasons.

[Dee Eight]

The TC exploit was being used before it was outed on the OutreachHPG reddit as there were complaint threads about people being shot by clan mechs with er large lasers at distances further than they should have been. All the PGI white knights of course denied any sort of exploiting was going on, even some who later commented on the reddit discussions about it acting as if they (and PGI also) had known about it for awhile.

[Akillius]

Dee Eight, on 04 February 2019 - 06:38 PM, said:

The TC exploit was being used before it was outed on the OutreachHPG reddit as there were complaint threads about people being shot by clan mechs with er large lasers at distances further than they should have been. All the PGI white knights of course denied any sort of exploiting was going on, even some who later commented on the reddit discussions about it acting as if they (and PGI also) had known about it for awhile.

Which just proves to me that (same as other first person shooter forums) when someone vehemently denies exploit or cheat, chances are they have a vested interest in keeping it in game. And just like other pvp games fanboizm & white knighting has also been used as a cover for those type of "players" no matter which account they are logged into.

Edited by Akillius, 04 February 2019 - 06:48 PM.

[PobbestGob]

Dee Eight, on 04 February 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

It doesn't. Have you even read the actual values for thrust of the different classes of Jump jets. Everything is in KiloNewtons per second. They're right there in the mech lab details.

Class I = 220
Class II = 200
Class III = 200
Class IV = 120
Class V = 110

Thus...the Class IV is the second weakest of the five classes of jump jets. Replacing the Class Is of say a Highlander with Class IV's is nearly dropping the thrust in half, and thus also dropping your jump distance by the same amount.

those are the boost_instant values. if you look at boost_fwd and boost_z, all of the JJs are identical with the exception of class V which has a boost_z of 37. only boost_z and the burn duration (always 3.75) are used in the jump distance calculation, which is (numJJs* boost_z * duration^2) / (2*mech_tonnage). class IV jets are indeed the best at half a ton.

Edited by Kill2Blit, 04 February 2019 - 07:25 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 04 February 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

This....

I wonder if this 'exploit' has been around a lot longer than we know and that's how Piranha's and other mass machine gun equipt mechs were able to shred back armor so fast you didn't even have time to react. Many many times I fell victim to this thinking something just wasn't right about the fact that i didn't even get a chance to turn around before I was eliminated from the game while receiving no damage otherwise in that area prior to the attack from behind. I never run my back armor thin in mechs that are slow to react due to that fact so this always seemed out of place to me. My mediums and heavies will on occasion be stripped off most back armor to fortify the front but I never do this to any assault I own for obvious reasons.

The MG thing has been around since forever.

That said - if that was happening to you then, I predict it will still happen. Unless you're running 30+ back armour - poor map awareness is the sole reason that happens.

[ExoForce]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 04 February 2019 - 06:29 PM, said:

I wonder if this "exploit" has been around a lot longer than we know and that's how Piranha's and other mass machine gun equipt mechs were able to shred back armor so fast you didn't even have time to react.

96 (ninetysix) MGs Pirahna made You wondering.

[Dee Eight]

Kill2Blit, on 04 February 2019 - 07:24 PM, said:

those are the boost_instant values. if you look at boost_fwd and boost_z, all of the JJs are identical with the exception of class V which has a boost_z of 37. only boost_z and the burn duration (always 3.75) are used in the jump distance calculation, which is (numJJs* boost_z * duration^2) / (2*mech_tonnage). class IV jets are indeed the best at half a ton.

Clearly you didn't actually test them actually installed on mechs. Putting Class IVs into an assault results in less height/distance.

[Z01]

Macro software should no longer be able to output more than the standard damage rate on weapons such as Rotary Auto Cannons and Machine Guns.

Often get MG to death in 4 seconds. Wonder why... I did not know there are such "hacks" out there. Ready to get back at some of those these girlies. I think macro should be banned in this game as it is being unfairly abused by the "skilful" players.

Edited by Z01, 05 February 2019 - 05:46 AM.

[Mechi Messer]

Good job. I lost a fair amount of solarismatches due to this crap last season and a few this season.

[PobbestGob]

Dee Eight, on 05 February 2019 - 01:26 AM, said:

Clearly you didn't actually test them actually installed on mechs. Putting Class IVs into an assault results in less height/distance.

Correct, but

Dee Eight, on 04 February 2019 - 06:23 PM, said:

Thus...the Class IV is the second weakest of the five classes of jump jets. Replacing the Class Is of say a Highlander with Class IV's is nearly dropping the thrust in half, and thus also dropping your jump distance by the same amount.

The boost_instant does provide a slight bonus, but it's not nearly as much as you might think. Here's a supernova with 3 jjs. The mechlab lists the jump distance of both as 17.5 meters. Inaccurate of course as you can see, but the difference is so small that it's well worth taking the class IV jets for the extra 4.5 tons you get out of it. And for the price of one extra slot, you can get a higher jump for 4 less tons than Is.

[Laser Kiwi]

i was completely unaware that rac/mg users were cheating, thats some grade A ******** right there.

[Laser Kiwi]

Z01, on 05 February 2019 - 05:43 AM, said:

Macro software should no longer be able to output more than the standard damage rate on weapons such as Rotary Auto Cannons and Machine Guns.

Often get MG to death in 4 seconds. Wonder why... I did not know there are such "hacks" out there. Ready to get back at some of those these girlies. I think macro should be banned in this game as it is being unfairly abused by the "skilful" players.

Whilst I agree the macros may be to blame sometimes, i'm generally against macros, i tihnk you will find the piranha domination will continue, simply because in 4 seconds a dude can basically pinpoint 48 damage with a crit multiplier right in your back, if they could give machine guns velocity rather than hitscan then mgs would spread even more and lose some effectiveness

[Laser Kiwi]

justcallme A S H, on 04 February 2019 - 07:57 PM, said:

The MG thing has been around since forever.

That said - if that was happening to you then, I predict it will still happen. Unless you're running 30+ back armour - poor map awareness is the sole reason that happens.

Yes, I wasn't aware of macro glitch, but 12 mgs stills puts out 12dps + crit multipliers. Most folk run around with single digit back armour consequently a piranha gets the drop on you and you have 6 back CT armour he is potentially unlocking crit multiplied damage on your CT in 0.5 seconds. Which of course becomes a real problem if you have a ton of ammo squirrelled away in there