84 replies to this topic

[eminus]

main problem for lights is the "Enemy Spotted" which I detailed in my other post....

lights becomes very predictable especially to Streaks-light-hunter....they should change how the "Enemy Spotted" mechanic works

https://mwomercs.com...76#entry6222676

[Dee Eight]

Roughneck45, on 12 February 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

Its called aim. The hard counter for everything in this game is aim.

If you cant aim, and lights terrify you, you bring streaks.

Bigger =/= Better

With how much PGI shrunk the area of the crosshairs you need to lock guided missiles back in August, its much harder to actually target lights, especially in mechs without lower arm actuators.

[dario03]

Roughneck45, on 12 February 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

Its called aim. The hard counter for everything in this game is aim.

If you cant aim, and lights terrify you, you bring streaks.

Bigger =/= Better

Aim is the counter to everything. Which is why I don't get why lights have the extra counter of streaks.

Edited by dario03, 12 February 2019 - 07:43 PM.

[Mycroft Sandoval-Davion]

I thought "git gud" was the counter to everything. I mean, I can get a bot to aim if that's the secret sauce.

[dario03]

LordBaronVonVaderham, on 12 February 2019 - 08:16 PM, said:

I thought "git gud" was the counter to everything. I mean, I can get a bot to aim if that's the secret sauce.

Didn't you already? Streaks are the in game bot. That's part of the issue, along with the imbalance of effectiveness vs the different weight classes.

[Maddermax]

dario03, on 12 February 2019 - 08:31 PM, said:

Didn't you already? Streaks are the in game bot. That's part of the issue, along with the imbalance of effectiveness vs the different weight classes.

All spread weapons are already more effective against assaults than lights, as well as any damage over time weapon. And if you had an aimbot, double gauss is way more effective against lights than streaks ever would be.

Streaks aren't easy mode like LRMs, they require you in the fight, and have way too many easy counters.

Lights probably need a general buff for most chassis (outside of the 3-4 you see regularly), but the fact that streaks exist isn't the reason they're not used enough.

Edited by Maddermax, 12 February 2019 - 08:49 PM.

[BrunoSSace]

Streaks are in a good place atm. The problem is that if the light is not aware of an enermy Streak boat and then dies. A good player avoids streaks, doesn't complain about them. I play only IS lights alot and not just the meta ones. Streaks are a hard counter to lights but this is not a bad thing.

Hill hump a streak boat, run away from them and attack when their back is turned. If you can bring ecm or even stealth armour. That pretty much is a hard counter to streaks.

[Asym]

Roughneck45, on 12 February 2019 - 07:08 PM, said:

Its called aim. The hard counter for everything in this game is aim.

If you cant aim, and lights terrify you, you bring streaks.

Bigger =/= Better

OK, I can't resist another "aim" is everything in this game..... Really? Why would anyone with advance spotting, tracking and fire control systems revert to weapons that "must be specifically aimed...." Think about this.......this is a FTL capable universe. Why don't ballistic weapons with TC's not have stabilized and ballisticaly compensated and adjusted gun systems?

Anyway, why use obsolete technology? You bring streaks because they are the most "efficient" weapon against close, small moving targets; and, yes, they might not kill out right BUT, they sure do dissuade leg humping MG lights when that streak boat is launching SSRM 4's, for the next whole minute non stop... because what can be seen, can be locked; and, what can be locked can be killed.........and, we can lock any light no matter the stealth, ECM or size..... "Oooops? Sorry, did I do that? and then you just say "Bad Robot..." and find another....

By the way, what is a streak cat a1?

[Mycroft Sandoval-Davion]

I assume that it is a Catapult A1with 6 SSRM6s.

[Prototelis]

Asym, on 13 February 2019 - 07:37 AM, said:

OK, I can't resist another "aim" is everything in this game..... Really? Why would anyone with advance spotting, tracking and fire control systems revert to weapons that "must be specifically aimed...."

Imma stop you right now.

Because this is an action video game. Not a board game. Not a war simulator. Not a board game simulator.

Being able to aim and place shots is core to the experience of any shooter. Auto-aim weapons detract from that experience. They don't take skill to use. The game is about skill.

[tutzdes]

Asym, on 13 February 2019 - 07:37 AM, said:

Why don't ballistic weapons with TC's not have stabilized and ballisticaly compensated and adjusted gun systems?

They ARE, otherwise there will be recoil for every gun (only clan goose and heavy goose has it now) and weapons follow the reticle perfectly despite mech swinging its components wildly while walking. Arm and torso movement does not cause weapons to vibrate with every aim readjustment. Space Magic stabilization and targeting computers!

[Maddermax]

Prototelis, on 13 February 2019 - 10:09 AM, said:

Imma stop you right now.

Because this is an action video game. Not a board game. Not a war simulator. Not a board game simulator.

Being able to aim and place shots is core to the experience of any shooter. Auto-aim weapons detract from that experience. They don't take skill to use. The game is about skill.

Imma stop you right now.

Streaks take more skill to actually do well with than laser vomit hellbringer or multi-LBX spam. “Skill” does not start and end with keeping a reticle on point, though after the lock on changes, you still need to do that with streaks anyway. Now don’t get me wrong, I love my LBX Slipnir or hellbringer at the end of a long day when I’ve run out of brain power, but the fact I have to put reticle A over red box B doesn’t suddenly make them high-skill mechs.

I think a lot of people equate streaks and LRM use, ignoring that streaks can’t be fired from cover using other people’s locks, or dumb fired, have short range so you can’t be in safety while firing, and locking moving targets is more difficult the closer the target is anyway.

[Prototelis]

Maddermax, on 13 February 2019 - 03:46 PM, said:

Imma stop you right now.

Streaks take more skill to actually do well with than laser vomit hellbringer or multi-LBX spam.

Lol. You mean the weapon that aims for you requires more skill than a weapon that requires accurate tracking or a weapon that needs to be lead?

Sure thing man. Keep boating that skill.

[Maddermax]

Prototelis, on 13 February 2019 - 07:51 PM, said:

Lol. You mean the weapon that aims for you requires more skill than a weapon that requires accurate tracking or a weapon that needs to be lead?

Sure thing man. Keep boating that skill.

That's the thing - I can aim. It isn't hard to do. It isn't hard to lead lasers and LBX on anything but a light, and then even streaks need aiming these days. Defining skill as just aiming is leaving out a hell of a lot of everything else.

I don't even use streak boats much, and run far more lights, but trying to call them a no-skill weapon is pretty ignorant. They need planning to use right without being countered, and being able to position yourself in the fight while in a squishy medium, and be able to get locks without being messed around by terrain (something LRMs don't have to worry about) makes it interesting, and correct use of UAVs is important. Get the drop on a light or medium though, and you get a massive punch that normal SRMs can't provide, because everything is hitting. Get into a fight with an assault though, and you might as well be throwing spit balls, unless you're in their rear. It's an interesting change of pace, and after trying it, they have their place.

[Prototelis]

Maddermax, on 13 February 2019 - 08:28 PM, said:

That's the thing - I can aim. It isn't hard to do. It isn't hard to lead lasers and LBX on anything but a light,

Contradictory statement.

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I don't even use streak boats much, and run far more lights, but trying to call them a no-skill weapon is pretty ignorant.

.

Auto aim, damn near fire and forget, barely have to track the target you have locked. I am not being ignorant or disingenuous, they are a low skill weapon that does most of the work for the user.

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They need planning to use right without being countered

Hold lock and wait. Such planning. Can't be avoided in LOS much counter

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, and being able to position yourself in the fight while in a squishy medium, and be able to get locks without being messed around by terrain

You can lock things through terrain just like every other auto-aim weapon.

Just because they don't have an indirect auto-aim ark doesn't make them any more difficult to use. Certainly a lot less difficult to use than any of the other weapons you mentioned. We're talking about a weapon system that deletes an entire in game class, and it aims for you.

[Chortles]

1. Max Radar Deprivation
2. Terrain hump
3. ???
4. Annoyed streak boats

[Prototelis]

Easier to have a little target info speed and avoid them all together.

[Maddermax]

Prototelis, on 13 February 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

Contradictory statement.

No it's not

Prototelis, on 13 February 2019 - 08:52 PM, said:

Auto aim, damn near fire and forget, barely have to track the target you have locked. I am not being ignorant or disingenuous, they are a low skill weapon that does most of the work for the user.

Hold lock and wait. Such planning. Can't be avoided in LOS much counter

You can lock things through terrain just like every other auto-aim weapon.

Just because they don't have an indirect auto-aim ark doesn't make them any more difficult to use. Certainly a lot less difficult to use than any of the other weapons you mentioned. We're talking about a weapon system that deletes an entire in game class, and it aims for you.

And this shows you haven't actually listened to anything I've said so far.

Fire and forget? It's getting the shots out to start, not them hitting after you've fired that's the difficult part. "Just use other people's locks" is easy for LRMs that work at 600-900m ranges over terrain, it doesn't work when you require a few seconds lock at close range. It's not like a UAV half a battlefield away is of any use to you, like an LRM boat. Seriously, it's like you haven't ever played them before. Streaks aren't a great weapon most of the time, but they have a place, and they aren't no-skill weapons, which is basically your way of insulting anyone who manages to do well with things you don't like. You'll just have to deal with that.

[Prototelis]

If you can hit all but the smallest targets in the game that isn't being able to aim.

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And this shows you haven't actually listened to anything I've said so far.

You haven't said anything with merit, I've checked.

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Fire and forget?

Damn near, streaks don't stop homing if you lose a lock. With 360 retention you can even hit things after they've passed you.

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It's getting the shots out to start, not them hitting after you've fired that's the difficult part. "Just use other people's locks" is easy for LRMs that work at 600-900m ranges over terrain,

Streak lock mechanics are identical to every auto aim weapon in the game. They all use the same lock on system.

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it doesn't work when you require a few seconds lock at close range.

You can lock through terrain and clear the obstacle to fire. Like every auto aim weapon in the game. Streaks have like a 400 meter range, that's hardly close.

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It's not like a UAV half a battlefield away is of any use to you, like an LRM boat.

My regular short range missiles also don't work at long ranges.

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Seriously, it's like you haven't ever played them before.

I've played with and against everything by this point.

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Streaks aren't a great weapon most of the time, but they have a place,

I never said they were a great weapon. I did say that they're a ******** no skill counter to an entire in game class.

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and they aren't no-skill weapons, which is basically your way of insulting anyone who manages to do well with things you don't like.

The weapon literally aims for you. In a game that in action is mostly about aiming, its a no skill weapon.

Yes, I am rather disparaging against auto-aim users. It isn't because I can't do it, it certainly isn't because I can't play streaks well.

Its a ******** mechanic that counters an entire class in the game with minimal user input. Its place in the game is a stop-gap measure for a working matchmaker.

[tutzdes]

Maddermax, on 13 February 2019 - 10:09 PM, said:

Streaks aren't a great weapon most of the time, but they have a place, and they aren't no-skill weapons, which is basically your way of insulting anyone who manages to do well with things you don't like.

Streak Assassin was my first score-inflating machine in the game: lock once, then just keep swinging reticle over the target every couple of seconds and you are set. It was my only mech with 1.3-1.5 w/l and k/d while the others had around 0.9-1.

Streaks are in a good spot currently, I have no problems with those (as a light main), but they require no skill to use. You still need the map awareness, piloting abilities, but weapon itself is indeed an easy-mode.