87 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 08:28 AM, said:

Well looking at those numbers what would be your conclusion?

PGI being overly terrified of laser vomit and/or overcompensating for small scaling.

[Grus]

FupDup, on 17 February 2019 - 08:34 AM, said:

PGI being overly terrified of laser vomit and/or overcompensating for small scaling.

Even still it doesn't have that many energy hardpoints.. not like the MAD-IIC or ebj... or hell even the GAR... there is no rhyme or reason for it to be as sluggish as a 100 tonner... I bet, there are IS 90+ tonners with better preference stats..

[Psykmoe]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 08:43 AM, said:

Even still it doesn't have that many energy hardpoints.. not like the MAD-IIC or ebj... or hell even the GAR... there is no rhyme or reason for it to be as sluggish as a 100 tonner... I bet, there are IS 90+ tonners with better preference stats..

The Cyclops and the Highlander are both way more agile at 90 tons. I mean you don't really see Highlanders anymore but the Cyclops is a good mech that handles quite well on top of that.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Hellbringer, on 16 February 2019 - 07:21 PM, said:

Hold up, hold up, this mech hadn't even dropped yet and you guys are already complaining !? Just give it a chance first before you start arm chair quarterbacking.

While this is true, after being with the game since its birth and playing well over 300 different mech variants, there are just some things I can pick up on that are issues without having to have played the mech. Most of the base mobility stats, while sucking, aren't necessarily an issue but that truncated torso twist range and slow twist speed, combined with the other agility stats is a huge deal.

First of all, defensively, the Warhammer IIC is going to rely on twisting for its survivability. It came in at a smaller scale that I was expecting but the CT and ST sections are well defined and easy to target from any distance. This means that to protect its hit boxes it is going to have to twist. The first problem is the twist speed, it is slow which means it can't play the fire and snap twist game most IS mech with similar torsos use. This is even made worse by the fact that Clan weapons with their longer beam duration, already require about a 1/2 second more face time before you can begin to twist defensively. With the torso twist speed so low, enemy mechs are going to have no issues hitting you anywhere in the torso they want to most of the time. Secondly, only being able to twist 75 degrees means it is going to be hard to twist far enough to keep your CT from being able to be hit even after you twist. The likelihood is, if the enemy pilot is even remotely a decent shot, at only a 75 degree range of motion, he is going to still have an angle on the CT and even if he isn't a good shot, there is still a high likely hood of fire accidentally hitting the CT.

Then, offensively, the Warhammer is going to have a hard time engaging targets that require him to twist from side to side. If he is looking left and an enemy appears right, he is going to have difficulty engaging that target before it get back into cover. Also if the target is far enough to the right, he is going to hit his torso stops prior to even getting on target which means he will have to turn his entire mech to engage. Of course since the turn speed of the mech is so bad, it just makes the 75 degree limitation even worse.

Other factors, there is the fact that he is going to have to approach targets at a much shallower angle which which exposes the more surface area on his mech to be fired at. Other repercussions are that he is going to have a much more difficult time strafing and engaging targets.

Finally the Warhammer IIC is going to be much more vulnerable to light mechs which between the limited range of motion on his torso and slow overall turning speeds means he is going to have a hell of a time trying to pivot fast enough to engage a light mech at his feet.

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 07:05 AM, said:

PGI IS bias confirmed...

I know your making a joke but honestly I am at the point I wonder if this is actually occurring. I sometime think Chris said, "The game is balance but you know what, I am so tried of IS players whining about Clan superiority that I am just going to make 80% of all Clan mechs so bad that they shut up because even than they aren't going to believe the Clans aren't superior" Honestly, balance or no balance, the bulk of Clan mechs aren't very much fun to play anymore.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 08:28 AM, said:

Well looking at those numbers what would be your conclusion?

They don't want to repeat the mistake of the KDK-3 ever again? It is (usually) better to release something under the power curve and then bring it up, than to release it over the power curve and then bring it down.

How often do people accuse PGI of "releasing OP power creep 'mechs and only nerfing them on C-Bill release" ?

[Grus]

Jay Leon Hart, on 17 February 2019 - 08:58 AM, said:

They don't want to repeat the mistake of the KDK-3 ever again? It is (usually) better to release something under the power curve and then bring it up, than to release it over the power curve and then bring it down.

How often do people accuse PGI of "releasing OP power creep 'mechs and only nerfing them on C-Bill release" ?

100% agree with you.

But in no way, shape, or form, should that mech have (and I'm gonna steal this) single player quirks, and the handling of a mech 20 tons heavier.

Edited by Grus, 17 February 2019 - 09:10 AM.

[Grus]

And where do you see the KDK-3? Its like a white whale, or a unicorn, and if you're having a bad day... the chupacabra..

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 09:26 AM, said:

And where do you see the KDK-3? Its like a white whale, or a unicorn, and if you're having a bad day... the chupacabra..

Exactly, because they overnerfed it *and* the weapons it used *and* every other KDK, because they released it too powerful.

[Executor Artanis]

it will be worse than a NightGyr...

Edited by Executor Artanis, 17 February 2019 - 10:25 AM.

[Antares102]

Executor Artanis, on 17 February 2019 - 10:19 AM, said:

it will be worse than a NightGyr...

Actually WHM-IIC has better agility than the Night Gyr.
Should give you an idea how hard Night Gyr has been hit by the nerf hammer.

Edited by Antares102, 17 February 2019 - 10:49 AM.

[KodiakGW]

Don’t like the stats? Don’t buy, or cancel your preorder. Simple. They are never going to listen to you.

[Executor Artanis]

KodiakGW, on 17 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

Don’t like the stats? Don’t buy, or cancel your preorder. Simple. They are never going to listen to you.

Don't worry, wasn't planning to. I only buy mechs for C-bills

[HammerMaster]

WrathOfDeadguy, on 16 February 2019 - 07:07 PM, said:

Awesome:
Accel 15.42 (20.03 for PB)
Decel 17.50 (19.38 for PB)
Turn 40.11 (45.26 for PB)
Twist 100 degrees at 72 degrees/sec. (81 degrees/sec for PB)

Zeus:
Accel 36.17
Decel 28.75
Turn 57.87
Twist 103.5 degrees at 103.50 degrees/sec.

Warhammer IIC:
Accel 13.11
Decel 16.55
Turn 37.81
Twist 75 degrees at 72 degrees/sec.

So the Warhammer IIC is marginally slower than the Awesome, and pathetically slower than the Zeus.

Interestingly, there is one variant of one other 80-tonner that has nearly identical mobility stats to the WHM-IIC. It's the Charger hero, Number Seven, which has about the same acceleration (13.11), deceleration (13.56), and turn rate (37.82)... but better twist range (100) and twist rate (81). The other 80-tonners, including all other Charger variants, have stats somewhere between the extremes of the Awesome and Zeus; only the Gargoyle stands out with the best turn rate (65.32) and twist rate (108) but slightly slower accel and decel compared to the Zeus.

So... yeah, it really is that bad. The WHM-IIC is quite literally the slowest and least flexible 80-tonner, by a factor of two and then some compared to the fastest 80-ton 'Mechs.

Abysmal.
Especially with the comparable engine cap should be a responsive rig not a pig.

[Valdarion Silarius]

I think more people here need to voice their opinions and concerns over to Russ on twitter if they are unsatisfied with the Warhammer IIC. I'd say wait until it drops in game, and if it fails to meet your expectations then get the word over to him. I'm going to wait and reserve judgement until I test out the free hero from the winter event in game.

[HammerMaster]

Arnold The Governator, on 17 February 2019 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think more people here need to voice their opinions and concerns over to Russ on twitter if they are unsatisfied with the Warhammer IIC. I'd say wait until it drops in game, and if it fails to meet your expectations then get the word over to him. I'm going to wait and reserve judgement until I test out the free hero from the winter event in game.

Thats cool and all for the freebie coming.
And I have said the same thing in the past about wait and see.
Give them benefit of the doubt.
But this is blatantly holding back where it was not needed.

[Angel of Annihilation]

KodiakGW, on 17 February 2019 - 10:53 AM, said:

Don’t like the stats? Don’t buy, or cancel your preorder. Simple. They are never going to listen to you.

What do you mean. PGI listens to the community all the time when it comes to mechs.

Nightstar - 1000s of whiners cried their head off about the arms being angled down that PGI decided to make them stick straight out of the torso making them ideally placed to shoot into walls, rocks of the backs of your own team, not to mention perfectly positioned to get stuck and hung up on everything within 15m of your mech. The mech would probably be decent if PGI hadn't LISTENED to the players.

Blood Asp - 1000s of whiner cried their heads off that the gun barrels weren't long enough so PGI obliged by making the barrels about twice as long as they were at release, effectively giving enemies about 20% more surface area to target and shoot at, resulting in the Blood Asp becoming more vulnerable to enemy fire. The mech was better before PGI LISTENED to the players.

Thinking about it though, it seems PGI only listens to the player when what they want is going to straight up make mechs worse so your probably right that PGI will never listen to players asking for an actual improvement.

[Grus]

I dont think they could make the WHM2C any worse.

[FupDup]

Grus, on 17 February 2019 - 07:46 PM, said:

I dont think they could make the WHM2C any worse.

Balancing Overlords™ said:

Challenge accepted!

Edited by FupDup, 17 February 2019 - 07:51 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Arnold The Governator, on 17 February 2019 - 03:28 PM, said:

I think more people here need to voice their opinions and concerns over to Russ on twitter if they are unsatisfied with the Warhammer IIC. I'd say wait until it drops in game, and if it fails to meet your expectations then get the word over to him. I'm going to wait and reserve judgement until I test out the free hero from the winter event in game.

Your 100% correct. Russ got run out of these forums with a pitchfork and torches a long, long time ago and I don't think he has shown his face since so if you really want Russ to know about something you don't like, Twitter is about the only thing he responds too or even looks at I think.

[Grus]

Angel of Annihilation, on 18 February 2019 - 11:52 AM, said:

Your 100% correct. Russ got run out of these forums with a pitchfork and torches a long, long time ago and I don't think he has shown his face since so if you really want Russ to know about something you don't like, Twitter is about the only thing he responds too or even looks at I think.

Be careful though, hes got thin skin and will block you from his twitter....